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 Post subject: New Here
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Hi All,

My name is Lori and I have started suboxone recently. I was going to a methadone clinic and didn't like their practices. I found a place that offers suboxone in my area and also takes my insurance. I know I am the odd one but I do not agree that addiction is a disease. I have done extensive research on the subject and there are people that agree with me and people who do not. There are a lot of doctors and psychologists that do not believe addiction is a disease. With me, I am not an addict. I do not have the behavors associated with being an addict. My body is dependent on opiates. It is no different than if I quit taking my Paxil cold turkey and I get sick. If I could only not have the withdrawals from not taking an opiate I would be fine. I have never done anything against the law, never scammed, lied none of that. I don't even have a lot of friends. I have never even smoked pot before. This all started from my doctor giving me vicodin for my back problem about 5 years ago. I have a legitimate back problem where two of my discs are pressing on a nerve root in my lumbar area. Most of the time now the pain is tolerable I just can't stand very long. I have tried tapering from methadone. I was down to 2.5mg and I still got sick. I tried tapering down from suboxone through a rapid detox and still got sick also. This place I go to took me back up to 2mg of suboxone and I am fine with that but I know they will want me to detox and I can't take the withdrawals. I don't know maybe I should be on maintenance. All I know is I feel stuck right now.


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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:41 pm 
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Hi Lori and welcome to our forum. One does not need to be an addict to be a member of this site. We have several pain patients similar to you who switched to Suboxone.

But what happened with the pain medication you were on? Why would you be put on Methadone or Suboxone? It us usually the tolerance that makes a pain patient take more than prescribed. It is a slippery road with one side being a patient who can control their intake of pain pills, the other being a patient who lost control of how many they were taking and always runs out at the end of the month.

Is the Sub helping your pain?

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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:48 pm 
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rule62 wrote:
Hi Lori and welcome to our forum. One does not need to be an addict to be a member of this site. We have several pain patients similar to you who switched to Suboxone.

But what happened with the pain medication you were on? Why would you be put on Methadone or Suboxone? It us usually the tolerance that makes a pain patient take more than prescribed. It is a slippery road with one side being a patient who can control their intake of pain pills, the other being a patient who lost control of how many they were taking and always runs out at the end of the month.

Is the Sub helping your pain?


Thank-you for your reply. For me what happened was one day I had severe pain and one pill wasn't helping my pain so I took two pills. Not only did that help my pain but it put me in a good mood and I felt like I could deal with anything. First I need to explain, I am a male to female pre-op transsexual and present as female all the time. I had a wife that I was married to for 26 years. She had become ill for a very long time. I took care of her. I did everything for her. She became severely ill in 2011 and she spent 9 months in hospitals and physical rehab. When she came home she was on dialysis and in a wheelchair. She was home for 9 months and had to go back to the hospital. She had to go back to physical rehab and then 4 months later she passed away. I can't express how much I loved her. Anyway, with me taking the pills, it was much easier to take care of my wife and when i tried to stop taking them I noticed I had no energy, was very depressed and had restless legs at night. Now at this time my wife was still in the hospital and I couldn't just quit the vicodin because I wanted to be with her to support her and I couldn't do that being sick myself. So I found out about a methadone clinic near me and I didn't get sick and was able to be there for my wife. I am being very honest here. I stayed on methadone for 9 months and never had a dirty urine test. During the time I was on methadone, I started tapering and found out what went on at that clinic and my so-called counselor and I tried to come off of methadone. I couldn't do it so I found a place that did suboxone and they detoxed you off of that. They started me on 4mg, then 2mg, then 1mg and when I was on 1mg, I started going into withdrawals. So, I talked to the counselor and the doctor at this new place and they put me back up to 2mg. I don't know for how long. I just can't go through the withdrawal symptoms. I am still grieving, my kids aren't talking to me and it is just too hard for me at this time. I explained this to my counselor and she said not to let life's circumstances get in the way of me detoxing. I feel I am just too weak and can't do it. I have an appointment this week with my regular counselor and am going to talk to her about this. She knows about me and the methadone and me switching to suboxone but not about the recent hard time I had getting off suboxone. The only thing I feel I can do is go on maintenance. I do attend groups at this new place but I don't feel like I fit in. The others at the group are people that have used hard drugs like heroin for many years and have spent time in jail and all that. Now I'm not judging anyone it's just not my situation.


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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:12 pm 
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There are ways to taper from suboxone that are relatively painless. You just have to be very patient. Many people on this forum have tapered down so low that they have very little discomfort when they finally go off. Google "Rx cutting guide". One of our members has created a template to help with a slow taper and I think it could work for you. Or you can read the sticky in "Stopping Suboxone" called Liquid Taper. There are medications like clonidine that can help you with any withdrawal symptoms you may have.

Please keep an open mind about addiction. One phrase of yours jumped out at me. When you took that second pill and it put you in a "good mood". If you've been involved in chasing that good mood feeling, you may have some addict tendencies. There are other kinds of meetings besides 12 step. Smart Recovery is one. It may be more up your alley.

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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:01 pm 
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"not only did it help my pain, but I was in a good mood and felt like I could DEAL with anything..."

Yeeaaaaaa. You're not an addict. You only took those pills or methadone or whatever to help your pain.

There is a reason you are struggling to get off opiates... You just have to see it for yourself.

Also. Just because you want to convince yourself that you aren't an addict and explain it out to all of us who never questioned it in the first place... You are just making disclaimers for yourself to believe it..... Addiction to opiates is recognized by the fda and the medical community as a disease. That's fine that you don't believe that... Yet... But why post all of that before you get to the issue?

Do you honestly think that if you had no wd from opiates that you would just stop taking them? Is only physical? You have no anxiety when your pills are low? You have had not one negative effect on your life in any way?

You don't have to go to jail, steal, cheat, or be the junkie under the bridge to be an addict. I know plenty.

But saying you don't lie... Well... That's a lie. Everyone lies. Especially to themselves.

I highly recommend looking at this really hard if you ever plan to be off of opiates completely or else you'll continue to fight against it forever and always.


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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:39 pm 
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MovieMaker1 wrote:
"not only did it help my pain, but I was in a good mood and felt like I could DEAL with anything..."

Yeeaaaaaa. You're not an addict. You only took those pills or methadone or whatever to help your pain.

There is a reason you are struggling to get off opiates... You just have to see it for yourself.

Also. Just because you want to convince yourself that you aren't an addict and explain it out to all of us who never questioned it in the first place... You are just making disclaimers for yourself to believe it..... Addiction to opiates is recognized by the fda and the medical community as a disease. That's fine that you don't believe that... Yet... But why post all of that before you get to the issue?

Do you honestly think that if you had no wd from opiates that you would just stop taking them? Is only physical? You have no anxiety when your pills are low? You have had not one negative effect on your life in any way?

You don't have to go to jail, steal, cheat, or be the junkie under the bridge to be an addict. I know plenty.

But saying you don't lie... Well... That's a lie. Everyone lies. Especially to themselves.

I highly recommend looking at this really hard if you ever plan to be off of opiates completely or else you'll continue to fight against it forever and always.



You know I didn't come here to defend myself. I came here for support. If I knew that I would be judged and bashed I would never have come here. You say, "I know plenty" You don't know me! I came here with complete honesty and all I get is this garbage. I don't need more stress in my life. I am leaving this forum to find a more non-judgemental place. I tried explaining myself honestly and sincerely. Thanks for nothing!


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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:38 pm 
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Hi Lori,

I don't know if you've actually left for good, but I hope you'll reconsider. It's true that Moviemaker doesn't know you and can't tell that you're an addict or not. You'll notice that a couple of us responded to you before him and we didn't say anything like that. Most people here are not trying to judge others and reply with more tact.

If you have any other questions feel free to post again and we'll try to answer to the best of our ability.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:00 pm 
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Well hello and welcome

First I am happy you are here but there are a lot of things in the story you are leaving out for example why is your family not talking to you and what was the clinic really up to? These are information that would help us to understand better your situation right now and we could give you more information for you to use if we know what's going on.


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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:07 pm 
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In this case, or most cases for me... Tact has some but little to do with the error of my ways. I know I come off wrong due to my writing style, but...

Patting someone on the back for doing the absolute worst thing they couldn't be doing or just supporting total bs or misinformation (signing off on their versions of bs to help them believe it) or downright assisting in the justification of addict behavior/insanity... That's better?

So as long as you reply like a good hearted and responsible adult, you can be and say whatever you wish. Got it.

While we're at it here... OP.... You probably aren't an addict. Just use opiates for strictly pain relief and not for the euphoria, social lubricant, problem solving abilities, etc. You have never lied or been to jail or anything like those rascally dirty ol addicts. I mean since all addicts are just dirty old bums (especially opiate addicts). You're right that we can't all be the "totally different" filled by a doctor addicts. So. That being said. Good luck with convincing yourself of all of this. And I'm glad you have so much support with the process. Best wishes.


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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:18 pm 
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FU! Like I said you have no idea who I am or what my situation is so back off idiot! You sound just like a typical 12 stepper!
MovieMaker1 wrote:
In this case, or most cases for me... Tact has some but little to do with the error of my ways. I know I come off wrong due to my writing style, but...

Patting someone on the back for doing the absolute worst thing they couldn't be doing or just supporting total bs or misinformation (signing off on their versions of bs to help them believe it) or downright assisting in the justification of addict behavior/insanity... That's better?

So as long as you reply like a good hearted and responsible adult, you can be and say whatever you wish. Got it.

While we're at it here... OP.... You probably aren't an addict. Just use opiates for strictly pain relief and not for the euphoria, social lubricant, problem solving abilities, etc. You have never lied or been to jail or anything like those rascally dirty ol addicts. I mean since all addicts are just dirty old bums (especially opiate addicts). You're right that we can't all be the "totally different" filled by a doctor addicts. So. That being said. Good luck with convincing yourself of all of this. And I'm glad you have so much support with the process. Best wishes.


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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:14 pm 
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Okay. Fair.

Do you want to use opiates?

Do you want to become a "full fledged" addict?

And.

I believe that diabetes isn't a disease, it's a life choice. Just stop eating so much.

What do you consider "non 12 step" info here? Someone to just reinforce what you say you already know about yourself? Or for someone to say that if you try hard enough you can just walk away from opiates unscathed and live a full life without ever thinking about them again?

Help me to understand.

If you know you aren't an addict, why post here about it? Unless you want people to agree with you? So if they don't agree it's not what you want to here and "not what you came here for".

You can believe whatever you want to and I've been exactly where you are before. Except I didn't do anything for myself, kept being dishonest with myself, and viola I'm here.

If this isn't what you want here, what do you want out of this forum? What do you want someone to tell you? The truth? Or just what you want to hear?


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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:18 pm 
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Hi Lori,

I'm glad to see you back. What some people need to learn is that no matter how good, or valid their responses are, if they word things so roughly all it does is put people on the defensive. After that, anything they say will be tuned out and invalidated as mean spirited.

I'm sure there are alot of things you can learn here. Please stick around and read some other posts, or as Amy said, ask any other questions you may have.

Q

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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:46 pm 
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MovieMaker1 wrote:

Patting someone on the back for doing the absolute worst thing they couldn't be doing or just supporting total bs or misinformation (signing off on their versions of bs to help them believe it) or downright assisting in the justification of addict behavior/insanity... That's better?



Who is doing that here? Is Rule doing that? Did I do that? No. I highlighted something that Lori said that was a red flag to me. But that's part of the problem! Half the time you respond like you've read a few lines of a person's post but you don't come away with a full understanding of what they said.

Obviously this poster is not going to be influenced by your "in your face" speeches, nor your sarcasm. Sometimes you have to meet people where they are. If you can't change your style to reflect that, maybe it's time for you to move on to another thread. Didn't your momma tell you that you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar? :P

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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:26 am 
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You still don't get it. And btw, you don't necessarliy become a diabetic from eating too much. I guess you never met an overweight person that didn't have diabetes. Anyway, when I posted I only meant to share with all of you my situation. I wasn't expecting anyone to say anything except showing support such as, "You can do it! Keep busy! It will pass! Be strong!" Maybe something along those lines not to be attacked as you have. And maybe your definition of an addict is different than mine. Either way, forget the labels, I just need support getting off Suboxone. Like I said, if this is support I would hate to see the opposite. Thanks for all your help movie maker!

MovieMaker1 wrote:
Okay. Fair.

Do you want to use opiates?

Do you want to become a "full fledged" addict?

And.

I believe that diabetes isn't a disease, it's a life choice. Just stop eating so much.

What do you consider "non 12 step" info here? Someone to just reinforce what you say you already know about yourself? Or for someone to say that if you try hard enough you can just walk away from opiates unscathed and live a full life without ever thinking about them again?

Help me to understand.

If you know you aren't an addict, why post here about it? Unless you want people to agree with you? So if they don't agree it's not what you want to here and "not what you came here for".

You can believe whatever you want to and I've been exactly where you are before. Except I didn't do anything for myself, kept being dishonest with myself, and viola I'm here.

If this isn't what you want here, what do you want out of this forum? What do you want someone to tell you? The truth? Or just what you want to hear?


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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:44 pm 
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Hey LoriQ,

Glad you found this forum. If you really want to quit taking Suboxone, you can do a slow taper of it. There are many threads here that publicize their slow taper to finally jumping all together of the meds.

My question to you is, once you are done with Opiates, what will you do for pain? Don't you want to stay on a small dose of Suboxone to help with pain?

Being on a maintenance dose of Suboxone will help with your pain issues and deter cravings (if you have any) Just a thought on the future.


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 Post subject: Re: New Here
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:21 pm 
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Well, that's what I'm gonna do the slow taper by myself. I have three 2mg. strips left. I'm going to cut the strips in half and try that. That's what my dr. had initially tried with me. As for the pain, my doctor referred me to a physiatrist to check out my options.

raudy1975 wrote:
Hey LoriQ,

Glad you found this forum. If you really want to quit taking Suboxone, you can do a slow taper of it. There are many threads here that publicize their slow taper to finally jumping all together of the meds.

My question to you is, once you are done with Opiates, what will you do for pain? Don't you want to stay on a small dose of Suboxone to help with pain?

Being on a maintenance dose of Suboxone will help with your pain issues and deter cravings (if you have any) Just a thought on the future.


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