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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:47 am 
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Let me just say that I am so happy to have found this forum. The stuff out there information wise is downright scary.
I made the decision to jump at 8 mg. I was on suboxone over 3 years. Started at a 24 mg dose. Tapered down to 8 mg over the last three months. No RX meds.
What the heck...wow..! I was scared as hell. My doc said point blank.." It's going to suck. Nowhere near regular withdrawal.". ( I was taking up to 20 perc 10's daily).
I didn't feel anything until day 6. Then...it began.
My symptoms were: rapid succession sneezing, intense body chills, diarrhea, restless legs, insomnia. This lasted intensely from day 6-8. Days 9-12 were worse! Then..I couldn't move. Couldn't stay awake..the limbs were heavy... positive attitude gone. I treated all my symptoms with OTC meds and vitamins. Benadryl, Immodium, but.B complex, multi vitamin, enough ibuprophen to put down a horse, Gatorade ( my skin got so dry and had begun peeling), ginger ale, pretzels. That's it.By day 13...only was feeling like I had been drawn through a knothole backwards and run over a few times.
I'm not trying to scare anyone, I'm simply trying to document the true symptoms... knowing we are all different, I'm praying that perhaps..I can ease up someone's angst over jumping... or..symptoms. Did it suck for me? Oh yes. Was it doable... hell yes!
Please also be aware that 2 days prior to jumping.. my husband of 11 yrs and I broke up for good. Narcotics are too important to him. So... no support REALLY sucks. You should try to line up a system of support... prior to the deed!
So... day 18. Today.
Still taking immodium and the occasional motrin.
Generally...sleep is a touch and go thing. Sometimes I do..sometimes I don't. Just know to give yourself some slack... this will be in the rearview sometime.
Now... I have searched high and low for the answer to this question... no one seems to have posted.. or I've missed it.
I lost my sense of taste and smell while on suboxone.
But lately... I am smelling.. a weird smell..in my urine..sweat...anyone else have this? Its almost... medicine like... weird. I'm drinking a lot of water. I CAN'T STAND THE SMELL!! It makes me sick!!
Can't eat though...no appetite. I think I've lost approximately 20+ lbs in this process...which I'm sorta happy because I was very much overweight on the subs.
Any ideas to get the last of the diarrhea.. and body toxins out...like NOW? LOL!
I hope I didn't scare anyone. Please understand that I am blunt and I don't sugar coat much. I have no cravings. I am lucky and blessed to have been sent the strength to do this. I pray someone else can use this...
Its doable... its not easy.
Now...just to get rid of the lasting symptoms..... LOL


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:59 am 
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Hi swimmer,

Welcome to the forum!!

Ah yes, that lovely smell that gets stuck in your nose after quitting Suboxone, it's almost horrid, isn't it? Over the years, several members, including myself, have had this happen to them. The best solution to the problem I've ever heard was this one member would rub cherry chapstick under her nose to overpower the other smell. Sounds kinda nutty, but she claimed it worked.

Phew, you jumped from 8mg, you must be tough as nails, dude!! It's normal for the tummy to be pretty upset still. A lot of people don't realize that our stomach or intestines are lined with opiate receptors. Imodium is chemically almost identical to an opiate and that's why it works so well. I would ease up on the Imodium as time goes by to try and get those receptors in your intestines used to life without an opiate.

Keep hanging in there, all of your symptoms will continue to improve, it just takes some time.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:41 pm 
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Well done, keep it up, you're obviously made of the right stuff and have the sincerity to beat this considering you jumped at 8mg and have made it through the very worst. Very well done, that's actually quite an astounding achievement, I'm impressed!

I jumped at 2mg 24 days ago, but really I'd only been on 4mg for 4 months and then tapered to 2mg in the last month, so 5 months total. Seems like a lot less of an achievement but I found it very difficult at times, and really only in the last 3 days have started to notice normality returning physically and mentally. Still have periods of quite severe depression and emptiness, but what can you do? Just have to keep on living and dealing with yourself as you are. Good times will follow, we just need to give it time. The concept of working through months doesn't seem impossible anymore, and that's probably the time frame we're looking at before normality really becomes the norm.

Keep riding the wave and enjoying the many thoughts, feelings and opportunities we never had while on pain killers (or as I like to think of them now, as life killers). If you consider that opiates in a naturally occuring sense are used to prepare animals (who pose a threat to the opium poppy) for death by slowing them down and making them oblivious to their surroundings when having licked the poppy, so that they can be killed by other prey much more easily. Really, opiates are associated with death, it's just humans have manipulated them for other scenarios with very risky consequences.

Enjoy and once again, very well done on your 8mg jump! You absolute titan!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:34 pm 
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Thanks for the quick responses! I'm definitely going to try something like the cherry ChapStick. I feel like the smell pervades EVERYTHING! I'm not sure the ChapStick will be enough. It brings to mind what coroners do...Vicks... under the nose.... hmmm..
Thanks for the vote of confidence....tough...yes.. lol... seems to be a running theme in my life... I find it funny that that word was used!
Truthfully... no matter how... what dose.. that anyone jumps from..you've got to have a set of brass ones. It's truly a test of fortitude.
It was weird because I thought I had been done with the gastronomical warfare. It had been 3 days since taking any immodium. This morning at 4am...SURPRISE! Think I watched my life pass before my eyes. Was like that until 10 am. Didn't actually take the immodium... ate a banana instead.
The only other 2 things that alarm me...
1. The malaise SUCKS. I hate it. I'm angry at it. I hate being lazy...and lifeless.
2. My spine... not all the time... feels like its literally electrically charged... or...on fire. This really threw me at first because I was just diagnosed with a condition that actually affects the flow of spinal fluid. ( waiting for health insurance to get care on that whole thing...2 Doctors treat condition in NYS....can't do anything half assed ...lol... gotta go hard ...and do the RARE brain condition!). LOL.... damn...


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Swimmergurl, welcome to the forum!

I think I remember reading that there have been some people who have taken Gabapentin to try to control the nerve sensitivity and electric feeling, with some success. I do know that you're not alone! You're not the only person in withdrawal that has experienced those sensations.

Good luck getting through this and let us know where we can be of help!

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:51 pm 
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I wanted to also welcome you to the forum and give you a big hearty congrats! WOW jumping from 8mg makes me cringe! Tried it at 2mg and couldn't do it. Would make it 5-6 days and back on it every time.

Hey if it works for YOU then that's all that matters right! I'm off now and it's only my 8th day, but I'm really feeling great. I did taper down to .50mg and had to have surgery and then just stopped it. For me, each day really does get better and better. Hope that's the case for you too!

Funny thing about that smell your experiencing? Haven't had that myself, but I'm sure it's very annoying. Along with the other suggestions you might try some of those Listerine or other brand film strips that you place on your tongue. They are for bad breathe and not necessarily for smell issues, but they might just help? Possibly worth trying if you are so inclined.

Keep treating any symptoms. Hot baths and showers really worked for me. And if you can get any exercise to get your natural endorphins moving it will certainly help! Even walking each day helps so much. Them ore you can do the better you will begin feeling. Drugs suppress those endorphins entirely and we need them working again naturally. Also music helps to pass the time. Put on your favorite tunes and go for a walk if possible.

Hang in there and best wishes to you! Hope you keep posting your progress as others will learn from your experience. Take care and have a great day!

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:47 pm 
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Wow! Many thanks for the responses. I've placed a call to the Dr. ...just waiting for him to call back. Going to ask about the gabapentin. I cringe when I think about the jump too. Never could make it through regular withdrawal...Funny... I just have a hard head!!
Did some Google searches on detox...general detox. I'm seriously considering a detox bath daily. It states that toxins from the body can and will be released through the skin.. which makes sense since the skin is such a sponge for everything...
Anyway... Epsom salt (which is magnesium based) is the primary additive.. along with baking soda ( softens the skin and helps with odors!!!!!!!) ginger.. sparingly because it heats up the skin...and plan on hot water and a 40 minute soak. ( they said something about the first 20 minutes to open up the pores.. the last 20 minutes to release toxins?)
I remember somewhere that magnesium is supposed to help with muscle / leg tremors. I think my Doc told me that.
Going to try this. Maybe...just maybe... that will help with the spine thing and this yucky smell. If nothing else...I get to soak for 40 whole minutes. Oh...don't forget the music...or I prefer to listen to beach waves....take that time to meditate.... think....pray.... whatever seems right. Anyone try this recipe for detox?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:03 pm 
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I've heard a lot of people take a magnesium supplement to help ease RLS. I've heard a lot of people put Epsom salt in a bath to help them feel better, but I didn't know it helped release toxins? It sounds to me like your butt is doing a pretty good job of releasing toxins all by itself!! lol

Gabapentin (Neurontin) has been used by several folks on this board to aid in Suboxone detox. The only issue I know with it is that some people have wd when they quit it. I would imagine if you only take it for a short time, you would not experience wd.

Clonidine (not Klonopin) is probably the #1 med folks take during wd. Clonidine is a blood pressure med that's prescribed off label for opiate wd. Clonidine calms the Sympathetic Nervous System and will knock your wd symptoms down a good peg or two. I jumped from the same dose you did 3 years ago, Clonidine helped a lot!! I never did take Neurontin, so I don't know how it would have worked.

You mentioned how the malaise sucks.....yes it does. You pretty much have to force yourself to get up and do stuff now. I remember one of my friends from the forum telling me "fake it until you make it" and that's true. It's kinda like you have to retrain your brain to want to do things. Also, like was mentioned, exercise is good for you.

Something else you're going to want to do is look back at the previous week and realize how far you've come. Sometimes this wd experience can drag on and reminding yourself to look back is a good way to push forward.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:18 pm 
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Romeo... * shaking head*...lol
Yeah well...my butt isn't doing the job fast enough ...trying this...maybe it will help with the horrid sub smell. I'm a neat freak....this is driving me nuts... shampoo..all kinds..conditioner...body washes ...soaps ... nasal neti pots...Omg...come on!!! I've tried everything but sweating it out. I feel like if I don't...its going to linger longer? Oh...and...upping protein. Can't eat. Went to the store..got protein shake mix. Try to get that down.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:35 am 
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Hahahaha, you're a neat freak and having to deal with this horrid smell stuck in your nose, thinking the smell is coming from you!! Sorry, I shouldn't be laughing, but it is kinda funny! :D

I don't think you are the cause of the smell, I think that your nose is just hypersensitive right now and it seems to lock onto certain smells and somehow makes them stick around.

I remember at one point I was contemplating bleaching the inside of my nose to get rid of the smell, but I never did, which is probably a good thing! lol

So, how are you feeling today? Were you able to eat yet? You really need to try and eat. Are the protein shakes you're getting "meal replacement" shakes? If not, you should check into the meal replacement shakes.....actually, you need to eat!! Eat your comfort foods if that's all you can stomach. I survived on bacon and Gatorade for a week or two during my acute wd, then finally got back to a more normal diet.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:58 am 
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The smell is terrible. During high dose of methadone withdrawal I smelled metallic. I'm sure it's the toxins leaving the body. I sure give you credit, I have a hard enough time dropping my dose! Well done, you jumped at a very high dose but good for you.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:07 am 
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DAY 20. FIGURED IT OUT!! The sub smell is almost gone!! Not long before I jumped ....about 2 months prior, I had a sinus infection that was antibiotic resistant... of course the more I complained...the heavier the antibiotics prescribed. AND THE SMELL WAS ABSOLUTELY RANCID...... Then I figured out it was a fungal infection and on a whim ...took a Diflucan. ( This is usually prescribed by a Dr. For yeast overgrowth... and is a one dose pill...lasts 7 days). and what happened? The infection along with the awful smell was relieved.
So....when I spoke to my Dr..I told him the sinus symptoms were back.... took the diflucan.....SUB SMELL IS ALOT BETTER!! Even note a difference in the skin and everything! You have no idea...the relief.
My Dr. Seems to think the electrical charges are more likely from my medical condition than from withdrawal.
Anyhow...I've decided against the Neurontin...don't need to withdraw from that too. He tried to foist an antidepressant on me.... sleeping too much... malaise. He forgets that I've been on every darn SSRI...tricyclic...nothing worked... makes me worse. I told him I'm the happiest I've ever been!!! I am!! True story!! I just can't stay awake! ( I was having this problem prior to the jump... I would instantly fall asleep in the middle of a medical exam...duh.! Problem? Ya think?)
So... after quite the scuffle... I reminded him of the problem and Hes put me on a stimulant.
So far... so good. I'm kinda freaked about being on a stimulant. But... I'm awake. And yesterday I was able to finally finish a few things that I have been meaning to do.
I took first detox bath this morning.. going to be hot as Hades... sweat factor and sub smell..ugh...we shall see!
So...symptoms..day 19 and start of 20.
Insomnia. Slight gastro issues. Sneezing. Fatigue..slightly better... but no malaise... due to stimulant?? That's it.
Maybe the sleepiness is due to the brain DX?? ( Its called Chiari Malformation Type 1). I must be seen by a specialist.. going to apply for insurance today. When I look up main symptoms...the only one that would cause sleepiness is reduced heart rate... and sleep apnea.
I'm not happy about this stimulant. But if I can't even stay awake to drive... wtf?
Thanks for the support and input... sorry about the long rant and rave...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:13 am 
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Ya know what's crazy.... I've never had insomnia before... I know its from WD. Re reading my previous post... I came to the realization that my...." falling asleep episodes". ...are not related to the insomnia. The feeling and frequency have only intensified due to the insomnia.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:32 am 
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I must say it is odd that you are on a stimulant during opiate withdrawal... It will speed up your metabolism which might have some positive effect on lessening the length of withdrawal, but ultimately it would make you feel more pain/discomfort, heighten anxiety, and worsen an already bad sleep routine. But I'm no doctor...

I would advise you to stop your stimulant until well through the acute withdrawal phase... And even then, no-one wants to deal with a stimulant crash during PAWs, so do perhaps get a second opinion...

Stay safe!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:33 am 
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Good morning and day 21....
Thanks for the input on the stimulant... I was thinking the same thing.
However... I slept blissfully... woke up with no problems.. only the electrical charged spine. No gastronomical issues...and the horrid sub smell is less.... horrid.
Detox baths... a lot of motrin. Protein bars.. a lot of water.
Strangely despite stress levels from personal issues and sub WD...I've not had any anxiety.. none..
Spent 7 hours in the local medicaid office yesterday... ugh....
So far... so good...
The stimulant gives me no crash...no anxiety..and I can drive!! Perhaps its this brain thing? Idk....hopefully I will have medical insurance soon.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:50 am 
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what stimulant is it you take, if you don't mind telling?

if you're doing well and feeling better because of taking the stimulant, then that's fantastic and you should keep taking it as long as you have supervision of a doctor... but for most people taking a stim during withdrawal would be the last thing they'd want to do, I know I'd certainly never do it.

good luck and keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:34 pm 
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Hey swimmer,

I just wanted to say congrats on 21 days. Today is also day 21 for me. Although, I jumped at a dose almost non existent compared to 8mg. You truly must be one tough chick to get through that. I wouldn't ever even consider it, but I'm kind of a whimp.

Anyway, I wanted to tell you that even though I quit at a low dose, I had the awful smell too. Everything smelled like rancid sub to me. I never considered that it could be coming from me??? It makes sense though. Everywhere I went I could smell it. Even taste it. It has definitely gotten better. But, still every once in a while I get a whiff of it and it makes my stomach turn.

Hang in there, sounds like you've got it together to make it this far. Congratulations again!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:18 am 
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Day 22!
Girl on a mission....you are no less tough than I sister.. believe that. I don't care where you jump from..its Different for everyone! Everyone's threshold..is unique. heck...I think we both Rock!! :D Any luck with the sub smell?
So..the stimulant is actually a non addictive narcolepsy / shift work disorder medication called Nuvigil. Damn stuff runs approx $17.00 - 26.00 per pill. However.... its one dose. I'm on higher dose at 250 mg. This medication is non habit forming however I believe its still a schedule IV controlled substance. Hope it may help someone...
I don't want to be taking standard stimulant meds.... that's not a smart idea for me.
So...not a good night of sleep. Not due to insomnia. This heat gave me a migraine... the electrical pulses don't help either. I'm not having gastro issues... but I am upping fiber and protein ....a lot of water...
Detox baths... help with back and neck... sub smell is heavier than it was...but humidity and heat... doesn't help. Going to try a new nasal rinse.. lol...just can't stand it!! LOL.
No restlessness... no anxiety.... very limited malaise... and I only hurt in back and neck....and the damn migraine... no appetite... still.
Have a good day all! Sending out some strength and prayers to you all! :)


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