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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:21 pm 
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Hi,
I am new here to the forum and to recovery in general. I had my induction this last Friday and am on day 4 of Sub. I initially dosed 2 and 1/2 8mg tabs on Friday to get all of my w/d symptoms at bay. I was feeling pretty good until yesterday when all of my original pain came back (but no w/d symptons) in my neck/back. I was miserable yesterday.
Anywhoo, i have been reading a lot on this forum to keeep me sane the past few days. I have read alot about the dosing issues many have had.
My concern is, today-Day 4- is my first day back to work. I didnt want to be tired at work (as i was this weekend), so i lowered by initial dose from 2 1/2 to just 2. I took this dose at 10:30 am. I am now sitting at my desk freaking out feeling like i am crack/meth...I am shaking, heart racing, can't barely think straight, having a hard time focusing my eyes. I am really getting worried. I have no idea why all of a sudden I am having such weird side effects as i have been pretty ok thus far. Any ideas or advise would be greatly appreciated. Not feeling well at all here...:( Scared to stay at work like this. But can't miss anymore as it is a new job and i missed all day Friday for Induction.

P.S. I was on approximately 60mg of Oxycontin (OP) per day + 4-6 30mg Oxy IR (blues) per day.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am scared here. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:32 pm 
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Gah! I just wrote you a long, detailed reply and it got lost when I tried to post it. I don't have time to rewrite it right now, but I will later.

For now, I'll just say that I think your dose is too high. I had similar side-effects early on, especially the eye-focus problems and anxiety. You will be ok, try to take a walk and breathe slowly and deeply. Make sure you eat something, that will help.

Suboxone has a long half-life so the medication builds up in your system over time. That's why you felt ok the first few days but are having side-effects now. As your dose begins to wear off, you should feel better.

I would also encourage you to call your doctor. You might need to take a lower dose several times a day, especially if you need it for pain-management.

I'll get back to you later.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:48 pm 
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Quitter - thank you for your response. I think i just realized what it is. I, out of habit, drank a rockstar on the way to work this morning, then took my dose about 2 hours later. I called my dr. at 11:30 and they were closed for the day!!! I went to a pharmacy, and they took my blood pressure, it was 139/79 (which is extrememly high for me- i am usually low at 90's over 50's). They would give me no advise there. THen i bought a portable blood pressure machine and just took it again, and i was at 151 over 97. I feel like i am going to have a heart attack. I am back at work. I dont know what to do!!! Has anyone had this reaction due to energy drinks before? Any idea how long it could take to go away. I am freaking out. So mad at myself, i was feeling so good, and i had no idea that it would affect me like this. I dont know if I should go to E.R. or just wait it out. I am just scared cause i dont think i can work like this.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:12 pm 
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I haven't had what you're experiencing, though I can see how some people may find buprenorphine to exacerbate anxiety. More than any other opioid I know, buprenorphine seems to have some slight stimulant effects, and can keep people awake at night if they have their dose before bed. Perhaps you are more sensitive to these effects.

First and foremost, it would be wise to eliminate all caffeine, and see if that makes things bearable.

Another thing that may be a slight possibility is that the naloxone is contributing to this issue, and you may be hypersensitive to it. While it is a long shot, IF the anxiety side-effect is most noticeable in the 30-60 minutes after you have your dose, a naloxone sensitivity may be the cause. Naloxone hypersensitivity can also happen as the body tries to adjust to the presence of naloxone, so the fact it happened 4 days in could fit the picture.

Even though it's a long shot, it's still wise to remove all unnecessary variables from the equation. IMO it's quite ridiculous that the vast majority of people have to take this extra drug that can cause birth defects and allergic reactions, just because a very small minority of people are known to abuse their doses.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:53 pm 
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tearj3rker wrote:
Even though it's a long shot, it's still wise to remove all unnecessary variables from the equation. IMO it's quite ridiculous that the vast majority of people have to take this extra drug that can cause birth defects and allergic reactions, just because a very small minority of people are known to abuse their doses.


I totally agree with this. Just the fact that someone is going to a legitimate sub doctor should be enough proof that they are interested in recovery and should be allowed to get the generic Subutex prescribed if requested. Especially if that person doesn't have insurance and has absolutely no history of injecting meds, like me. It's very frustrating. My doctor won't even consider it, and his ignorance is costing me $ every month. That in itself could be detrimental to someone's recovery who can't afford to buy Suboxone.

Miss E, let us know how you are doing and if you had to leave work today. Did you start to feel better after a while or what? Hope you are doing ok.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:04 am 
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i don't have any of the side effects except W/D after the tapper and not planing on that for some time.

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 Post subject: Thank you all
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:48 am 
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Geez it's nice to have people to talk to and questions of. Thank you guys for responding and caring. I am feeling better today. I did leave work early. Yet again, lying to my boss's. Not sure when that will ever end! :( It must have been a reaction from the high dose of caffiene. My doctor didnt say anything about not drinking caffiene. But that has to be it. I will stay away from caffiene now that I know. And yea, i have had anxiety for a long time, so that is a possiblity as well. Maybe i am more anxious than i thought. I didnt think it would be a big deal to stop taking my xanax.

As far as a possible allergic reaction, I will talk to my doctor when i have my 1-week on Friday am. I didnt even know there was anything out there that didnt have the Naloxen. I also need to talk to him about my pain management plan. And, if there is a generic that would help me out a lot since i have to pay cash for the doctor visit and then cash for the medicine as my ins. wont cover it. It's going to be like $350+ a month once i have to get a full months script filled. ouch! I will have to ask him about that...

I guess i will find out today if it was the caffiene or not, because i have had nothing but water and take my dose in about 2 hours. I will let you know.

Thank you for your posts, i really appreciate it. hope you all have a good day!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Subutex does not have the naloxone in it, and there is also a generic for this med. If you can get your doctor to prescribe the generic, that would help you out financially. From what I hear, and from my own experience, most doctors will not prescribe Subutex or its' generic unless you are pregnant, for fear of you trying to inject it. But some lucky members of this forum do have a doctor who will prescribe it to them. I guess it just depends on the doctor.

If your doctor won't prescribe it, I just wanted to make sure you are aware that there is a $50 off coupon that you can print on the www.suboxone.com website, that will save you some money. This only works for the films though, not the tablets, so you will have to ask your doctor to specify on your Rx that it is for films now, instead of tabs. I don't see any reason why you couldn't switch from tabs to films.

Glad you are doing better. Let us know what you find out at your appt.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:17 pm 
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i am fortunate to have a doc that prescribes generic subutex, but let me tell ya, it is really not that inexpensive. around 4 months ago, with a discount prescription discount card, it was 2.75 per pill, but all good things come to and end. now it is almost double with that same card, still cheaper than suboxone though. i have to agree with tear about naloxone and anxiety. at day 3 or 4 on suboxone, i had terrible anxiety and usually dont have those symptoms. caffiene made it worse. your body should adjust, and start feeling better with every day!


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 Post subject: A NOTE FROM SLIPPER.....
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Dear Miss E.,

I noticed you said you did not think it would be a big deal stopping your xanax? How much xanax were you taking??

It is a very big deal to stop it suddenly after taking it for a long time...or even two weeks, sometimes..and also depends
on how much and how often you took it. Xanax is a benzo.. and in my opinion withdrawal from benzos are worse than
any other kind of withdrawal....I should know...I was addicted to it and hydros for 29 years!! Maybe some of your
symptoms are from the stopping of the xanax? If you have some left, it might be a good idea to take one...but not a
lot because it is very addictive and if you have been off of it for a while you do not need to go back on it on a high dose
because your body has become used to not having it. ....so...start off small..

I simply ask my doctor if I could have the subutex because that is what they gave me on induction and I thought it
worked better than the suboxone. He said sure...no problem..I guess I was lucky there...

I would not like to take the film...I have heard too many people say it comes up cracked and sometime short.

Subutex is a generic and I take the one made by ((just had a brain freeze and cannot remember!!). It costs me $10.00 a month with my drug card (insurance).
I bet it is not that expensive without insurance. I would just tell my dr. the truth..you are having side effects with the
suboxone and for money reasons would like to change to the cheaper subutex. Maybe he will give it to you...can't hurt
to ask???
This subutex has saved my life...I never think of hydros anymore. It has certainly stopped my addiction. I also have
pain..so I spread mine out through the day...I take 10 mg. now...started on 16...I take 5 in the am and 5 in the pm.
I can also take more if the pain is bad. I hope you do as well on this medication as I have...just give it time.

Let us know how you are doing...this is a good forum with people who care and want to help...even if you mess up, which most of us have , we are here for you.

Thanks,
Slipper aka Judy

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:14 pm 
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Slipper's likely onto something there.

Even after taking a benzo like Xanax for a short period, a person can suffer bounce-back anxiety. Basically all the anxiety you dodge by taking Xanax ends up hitting you all at once when you stop taking it. Depending on how long you've been taking Xanax, it can take a couple of months for it to die down.

It would be worth mentioning this to your doctor for sure, as this sounds much more likely the cause than any naloxone.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:48 am 
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oop's miss-e i think i was reading another post and some how made a remark here :oops:. i hope your feeling a lot better now.

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 Post subject: Thanks all!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Wow, thank you all for your posts. I really appreciate the help. I just wanted to let you know i am feeling better. Not sure if it was Caffiene, Benzo w/d or a combination of both. I have not had any caffiene since monday (i am scared to drink a pepsi!!!). I am feeling better. I also did break down and take 1/2 of my .5mg xanax. and have done that the past few nights. It has helped a lot with my anxiety and nervousness. I guess i didnt realize i was dependent on the xanax. So, i go in for my 1-week tomorrow and now i have a list of topics to talk to my Doc about. Thanks so much for all of your replies, suggestions and information. Every piece of it counts and is important to me as I am very alone on my journey here... I will let you all know what doc says tomororw. Thanks! :)

P.S. One quick question. I am in chronic pain, pretty severe, and every day. I am not getting full relief from the suboxone. Should i be? So many say that it kills all of their pain. Not even 200mg+ oxy killed my pain. It is undiagnosed at this time and my doctor doesnt know what to do with me (not sub doctor, my neurologist). I can deal with the pain, but was just wondering if you think its the wrong dose i am on or how i am taking it? I have no idea. I guess i will talk to my doctor about it in the am. Thanks for reading and have a good day! :)
~ E


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:05 pm 
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Just FYI: Subs don't get rid of all of my pain, and some days are worse than others. But they do make it more tolerable. I still have to take ibuprofen or a muscle relaxer on some days, but only like once a week.


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 Post subject: Update
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:52 pm 
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So, today was my one-week follow up with my sub dr. I must say that he is not only one of the nicest dr's i have ever had, but also one of the nicest people. I am so futunate to have landed where i did. I went in today and told him about my week and the different side effects i was having and questions about my anxiety and and pain levels. He was sooo nice. He offered up Subutex right away as an alternative, in case i was having a reaction to the naloxen, and he said it was cheaper as well. He also told me to up my dose. I told him i took 20mg on my induction day, but have tried to level off at around 16mg the last 3-4 days. I told him i was still in pain though, however most if not all of my w/d symptons are at bay. (only hot/sweaty flashes once in a while) Anyways, he prescribed me 3 8mg subutex a day and told me to go back to 20mgs and if i am still feeling pain at night to take 16mg in the am and then another 4-8mgs at night (as needed).

Also, i asked him about what i should do if i have a panic attack...as i do get them and have been on benzo's (ativan, klonopin, and xanex) before. He said it was fine to take 1/2 of my xanex if i feel the need to and that it shouldnt be a problem since i am only rx'd .5mg of xanax.

He was very kind and listened to me and could not have been more kind or understanding. I have read some horror stories out there about suboxone drs or even pcp doctors. If anyone needs a GOOD doctor in Phoenix, AZ, feel free to message me for the clinic information. I suppose i can post that info in the "taking patients" section too if that would help.

Anyways, my next battle is going to be GETTING the prescription from a pharmacy. I went to 3 different pharms on my lunchbreak and called 2 others. NO ONE has the subutex in stock. If it is going to be like this every time, i am nervous to start on the subutex. Anyone else have problems filling this RX???

Well, all in all it was a good day. Made it through week one without much problem. Once i can get my anxiety under control I hope to feel a bit better. I'm actually excited to start getting my life back to normal and on track. Thank you all for your support and good luck to everybody!

Take Care!!!

~ E


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:45 pm 
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That's great news to hear!

I called around to find out if any pharmacy in my area carried Subutex or the generic as well, and none of them did. But they did say they could order it for me and it would be there in a couple of days. And if I was going to have an ongoing Rx for it, they would order extra to keep it in stock. So they should be able to do that for you as well.


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