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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:31 pm 
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I just found & watched Dr. Junig's videos on Youtube about Suboxone.

I have not been able to try this medication yet, but I fully agree with the good Dr's thoughts on opiates and that the idea of living "off everything" (opiate free) is very unreasonable. It doesn't matter whether you're an average person, an athlete, a doctor, a politician, the girl next door, the guy next door, a teacher, etc etc. Opiate dependancy can be an immense, tremendous problem/challenge for ANYONE, for people of all walks of life, be it Michael Jackson, Rush Limbaugh, Cindy McCain, Dr. House's character on television (hehe), or you and me.

watch?v=gMGWrpN728A <----- Here is a youtube video that made me angry, because it shows some people's lack of understanding. It's a pharmacist that thinks everyone taking perscription painkillers is abusing them and is an addict, but things are NOT that simple, are they?

I wish there were more people like Dr. Junig. This world is badly in need of people like that.

Anyway, I'm looking into the possibility of Suboxone treatment. I'm off to browse this forum which I just found today.

Good luck everyone.


Last edited by ParallaxScroll on Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:07 pm 
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ParallaxScroll-

Welcome to the site. You will find a great deal of helpful information here.We also have meetings in our CHAT module Monday and Wednesday at 7:30pm EST ( I am there now) So feel free to ask anything, or just to speak freely.Are you currently seeking treatment? Would you mind sharing more about yourself?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:15 pm 
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I was going to write a "my story" thing, but right now I don't have the energy to do it properly in great detail, but, I wanted to say just how and when I got started with opiate painkillers. Because it's my nature, I will go into more & more detail as I edit more stuff in, that's just how I work as far as posting on forums, so this will go from not much, to multi-paragraph! So "stay tuned" :)

For years as a kid and a teenager I had suffered from headaches. Not crippling migraines, but semi-chronic stress/tension/cluster/whatever headaches. Never found out why. I would always take aspirin or tylenol or advil from our medicine cabinet. Afterall, that's really all there was to relieve pain. We didn't have bottles filled with Hydrocodone or Oxycodone or what have you. And I had no idea of the existance of narcotics. I mean I had heard of morphine, but to me, that was only used in hospitals, and it wasn't part of my life. I was oblivious to opiates.

Time went on and my parents got divorced. I lived with my dad and brother, we had to move from a nice house in suburban Glenview, Illinois near Chicago, to a crappy apartment upstate, in Lake County, Illinois far from everything I knew. My dad had various surgeries. In 1997 one night I had a bad headache and complained about it. I was crying. With hesitation and reluctance, my dad decided to give me half a pill of this painkiller medication he had left over. I had no idea what it was at the time, I pronounced it hydrone! but it turned out that it was half of a 5/500 Vicodin pill, so what he gave me was 2.5mg of Hydrocodone. I took it, and within 20 min my headache was gone and I was feeling like I was in HEAVEN! I was laying on this huge leather chair in the living room, and I felt this warm feeling and total bliss. Understand that until then, I had never EVER so much as even seen recreational "drugs" before, let alone used any. Never tried coke, heroin, or even pot. I was cleaner than anyone should be allowed to be. Anyway, that night in 1997 was the only time I had Hydrocodone. A year went by. 1998 came and my dad had open-heart surgery. Of course he had been perscribed painkillers again.


One day I had a bad headache again. I didn't know what to do, it was so bad. I took some advil but it didn't work. Then I remembered that one time, a year before when my father gave me this really strong medication that wiped out my headache. I didn't know he had more. I think he did but wasn't sure, I couldn't remember what it was exactly... Hydro-something. I asked my dad if I could have another half tablet of that "Hydro-stuff" that he gave me last year. He thought about it and agreed. He told me that this stuff was perscription (obiously) and that he would only give me HALF a tab because a whole one could be dangerous--That only *he* could give me this stuff in an "emergency", that normally he should not be doing this, but did because he felt badly for me. I took it gratefully, and again, the headache disappeared and I felt wonderful for a few hours. My gosh did I feel good. So good, that when it wore off, I wish I could have more, but I knew better. Next came stupidity. The next time I got a headache, not even a bad one, just any headache that could've been helped with Advil or anything over-the-counter, I did not ask my father, I looked in the med cabinet myself for that bottle of Hydro-whatever, and I helped myself (stole) a half of a tab...... I did this a few times.. Then I thought, if half a tab does this, it certainly couldn't kill me to take a WHOLE tab, afterall, the bottle said take 1 tab every 4 hours for pain. That whole tab made me feel really buzzed, really good. I was on another plain of existance.

Well.... you can just use your imagination as to where all of that led over the following days, weeks, months and years..... I didn't actually get *fully* addicted until 2 years ago, 2007, when I had obtained my own perscription for Norco 10, which I used every single day.

Today I take 4 to 8 of the 10/325 Hydrocodone, and I'm trying to quit, which I know is impossible, so I've been looking into Suboxone treatment, but I know its EXPENSIVE.....


Last edited by ParallaxScroll on Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:43 pm 
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shelwoy wrote:
ParallaxScroll-

Welcome to the site. You will find a great deal of helpful information here.We also have meetings in our CHAT module Monday and Wednesday at 7:30pm EST ( I am there now) So feel free to ask anything, or just to speak freely.Are you currently seeking treatment? Would you mind sharing more about yourself?


Hello there, thanks for the welcome. I was trying to tapper down, slowly, from the Hydrocodone, under my doctor's care. I got bad news that this new doctor has decided to let me go because he cannot deal with my addiction, that's the impression I got anyway, and It seems to be a matter of not wanting to lose their medical license, or whatever.

So I don't know what to do. I've got maybe a week's worth of Hydrocodone left. Maybe I'll be able to get more, maybe not. I'm sure people here know all too well how that is. I am looking to find a pain management doctor who will either give me more of the Hydrocodone, thus not helping the problem, or hopefully one that can give me methadone or suboxone, but I'm betting methadone is easier to get, either via a family doctor or treatment program or whatever. I just moved to South Florida in West Palm Beach a few months ago, so I feel like i'm in the middle of an unfamilar place after living in Illinois my whole life.

I'll be looking forward to the CHAT meetings! I feel good right now, but I realize that's only because I have a small supply of Hydrocodone, and I know I've got to do something to manage this addiction. I hope my story that I posted in the post above in this thread (which I've been editing & editing-- as I think of more to say---that's how I write), gives you and everyone that cares to read, a little insight on your newest member of this wonderful forum.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:18 pm 
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Hi - Welcome to the forum.

I'm wondering if you want to get on methadone for a chronic pain issue? As far as I know, you cannot get methadone to treat opiate addiction from a regular doctor. You have to get it from a methadone clinic. In any case going on methadone from a 40-80mg/day hydro habit seems like out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Suboxone is a good recovery tool. It may or may not handle chronic pain issues, seems to depend on the person and the kind of pain. It's a strong drug though, even at a low dose it's a lot stronger than what you're taking now. I've come off of a hydro habit like yours - it was pretty comprable to coming off Suboxone, which I also just did. The hydro kick was shorter and more intense, the sub withdrawal milder but lasts longer.

Good luck.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:52 pm 
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Greetings, I feel your situation. I must tell you from my own expericence that going from hydro's to methadone is a bad move if your looking to get of pain meds. Methadone is a bitch. I don't know why they use it as a mantaince drug. Once your on it your taking your addiction to a whole new level. Oh it will start out fine. Then odds are you will go up in mgs.30 to 40,60 80. Cause one gets a high off methadone. The more you take the better you feel. That's my opinion. Now subox. is totaly different. One can not get the high off of it like methadone. You can only take so much of subox. and thats as for as you can go. Most here will tell you you can't get high on subox. and if you take pain meds while on subox your wasting time and money. Now granted I have only been on subox. for a few mos. It has changed my life. I see where you have few hydro's left and looking for a doc. I don;t know about Fla. but you have to go to a pain mang. or a clinic in order to get subox or methadone. If I were you I would get on the net. and find a pain clinic in your area. Don't wast time. going through those withdraws are nothing nice. When strarting subox. the doc. wants you in withdraws. they say that you should not have any opiaits in your system. If your looking for a life free of the worry and hassel of narcotics check out subox. It can't hurt. It might save your life. It did mine.

Darren


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:23 am 
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I realize that most people here are very much in favor of Suboxone, and for good reason, it's a miracle drug
for many people. The problem is, obtaining it. For one it's expensive, and I doubt my insurance will cover it.

I realize that methadone is actually worse, for my situation, because I have a small to moderate Hydrocodone
habbit, while methadone will be increasing my addiction by several fold, perhaps even an order of magnitude (10x)
worse. If all else fails, I will check into a detox place and ask what options I have for a Suboxone plan of action.

Thanks to everyone that replied and will reply later. I've gotta get some sleep and then figure things out.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:16 am 
Hi Parallax and welcome to the best forum you will find re: Suboxone! I have only been on Sub for 6 weeks, but oh my gosh I so wish I had found it sooner. The process of getting started was actually pretty easy. I went to the Suboxone website, used the physician locator, and had an appt with a wonderful doctor within a week. Yes, it was pretty expensive and if not for a precious, giving loved one, I don't know how I would afford to stay on it. But I guarantee you - I would find a way somehow or another!! You may be surprised (I sure was) in that your insurance may cover at least part of it. Mine paid nothing for the doctor visit (I knew it wouldn't) but I went ahead and gave the pharmacy my insurance card and low and behold they did cover a portion of the cost of my Rx. I really did not think it would pay at all. They're paying an odd amount on it and I have no idea how they came up with that figure, but it's about half. I gratefully took it and will ask no questions!!
I have posted a few times here before if you want a little more of my history. But suffice it to say that I wish I could go back in time so that I could have known about Suboxone and started it only a year or two into my addiction to pain pills. As it happened though, my addiction continued on and grew worse over the course of 4 years or so. Like you, I did not use alcohol or any drugs, Rx or otherwise until my addiction began. So in my mid-forties I found myself in the grip of a horrible addiction that cost me greatly. I lost my career of twenty years as a Registered Nurse, my reputation, my ability to earn a good income, my self-respect, and darn near my husband, and countless other things to my addiction. If I had sought help sooner so much of that could have been avoided! If I had known about Suboxone I swear I would have started it before I did. Even being in the medical field, I had heard nothing about this medication until I landed in treatment. Even then, it was not "offered" to me as an option because I was trying to hold on to my nursing license.
Anyway - for me it has been a wonderful tool for recovery. It is not THE answer. There is still a lot of work to be done, but the medication is allowing me to begin that work and I am so grateful for it.
Sure, I have some concerns about how long to be on it or how hard it may be to get off it, but for now - I am living my life, feeling more normal than I have in years, and I have hope!
So please do this for yourself, before things get worse for you - do your research (seems you are), scrape the funds together somehow, find a doctor, make an appointment and keep it! I seriously doubt you'll regret it!
Best to you!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:06 pm 
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I did use the word miracle drug on one of my post (subox). and someone pointed out to me that it just one of the tools for recovery. I agree. But in order for recovery, first one has to get off the pain meds their on. This is where subox comes in very handy. Face it, trying to deal with recovery while sick is terrible. After which one can get into treatment or whatever else tool they might need for a full recovery. So yes for me the subox started me on the road to recovery and I think very highly of it. I don't know what the average coast is for a subox doc. but I pay 400 mo. plus the script. about 250. Is this high?? I will repeat what I said. Check the net. you will find a doc. in your area who writes subox. You spoke the cost. Ask yourself, How much will it cost me: money, time, family, hardship and trust. If you really want to get off the pain meds, its worth the cost in the short term and expecially the long term to get on the subox. From your post it seems like your struggling which way to go. Methadone is a bitch. If you start and down the line you want to get off of it, it will be hell. Now I am speaking from my own experience and everybody I spoke with who was on it says the same thing. Please be careful. Choose wisely. Just be carefull. You'll make the choice which is right for you. Good Luck.

Darren


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:58 pm 
Hey Darren - sounds like you and I agree on our advice to ParallalaxScroll (by the way, what does the name mean ?)
You are so right about what you said about needing to be able to be off the opiates to get recovery started! That was huge for me! I was trying to go the 'complete abstinence' route last year when my life exploded.
Doing all the 'right' stuff with the treatment program, meetings and so forth. But I was so sick, physically and emotionally, from the withdrawals that I just could not get it together. We all know the miseries withdrawals bring upon the body and I almost felt like I could deal with that (well I did for a while), but the psychological stuff - cravings in particular and such profoundly low motivation to do anything, led me right back to the opiates. I think Matt2 comments often about his experiences with abstinence based recovery as well.
But even when I wasn't using I felt so miserable that I could not make any progress with the tools I was trying to embrace and use in my recovery.

As for your comments/questions about cost. Again I wholeheartedly agree! Whatever the cost of this treatment - it is worth it. If I had found it and used it sooner what would it have saved me monetarily?
Although I personally wasn't spending huge amounts on my drugs (which a lot of opiate addicts don't because they have legitimate prescriptions covered by insurance, etc), it cost me an annual income of $50,000-80,000.
Parallax, even if you're not in a profession which requires a license, your addiction could still cost you your job/income for any number of reasons.
I know, for me, it was by the grace of God that I wasn't in an accident while driving impaired. I could have hurt myself or someone else, or at the very least could have gotten arrested, had legal costs and so forth. There are so many different ways this addiction can cost us financially.

Darren is right - no matter what Sub treatment costs, it's likely gonna save you in the long run.
Darren, where I live (smack dab in the middle of the Bible belt), my first visit to the Sub doc was $350 followed by monthly visits at $200 each and the Suboxone 8/2s #90 run about $650!!! So yeah, lots of money. As I said before, I was thrilled this last time when my insurance picked up about half of it, but the first time I filled it they only paid about $100 on it.
I don't know what's up with that, but grateful to have a little of it paid for. I meant it when I said, though, even if I didn't have a loved one helping me with the expenses, I'd find a way.
If those figures are scaring you Parallax, don't let them. Call around your area - it may be cheaper there and some places do offer some assistance. I think the drug company has a program to help offset the cost for some also.
PLUS, and if anyone knows anything about this, please let us know - I read somewhere that the patent expires this Fall and that there may be some generics on the horizon.
If that's the case, we'll all havensomething to cheer about!!
Also, the $ I gave was for 90 pills, which as a month's supply would be 3/day, and I bet Parallax won't even need that much no bigger than the dose you've been used to on your hydro. I have found that I do fine on one or two a day, so the 90 lasts me much longer than a month.

Anyhow - again - it's worth it. You are worth it. Keep checking in with us whatever you decide.

Sorry guys - I know my posts are long, but I do like to write, and hey I'm unemployed and this seems a better way to
spend some of my time than some of the other things I guess I could be doing!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:24 pm 
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Hydrocodone to methadone will set you on probably one of the worst paths if your life, especially if you're an addict. I had a bad hydro habit too, 60-70 10mg norco's a day. Thought I could taper myself off it... yea that didn't work. When I finally realized I needed help, I went to a detox facility. I really didn't know much about suboxone and it's efficacy, I was just looking for a place for detox so I could get off the hydros. And yes I suffer from chronic pain as well. I was first introduced to suboxone at the detox facility and it provided me with 10 days of asymptomatic withdrawals from the hydros, meaning I didn't feel a thing. I'm on maintenance now, 16mg/day, and I'm trying this out for two weeks then will decide to taper or stay on. But I can't tell you how effective the suboxone has been in controlling my pain. If you go to the SAMHSA website, you can find buprenorphine prescribing docs anywhere in the US and you can do a search by zipcode as well. Most inductions will run you 3-500. Some insurance companies pay, some don't. Whatever the price, it's worth it, and you owe it to yourself. Best of luck!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:24 am 
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Dr. thank you for replying.

Would you say that a 4x to 8x pill a day 10/325 Hydro habbit (thus 40 to 80 MG a day) is a small / low-end habbit,
or a medium/mid-range habbit? I can't decide how bad my addiction is. I know there are people with massively larger and more serious additions than mine, but also people with less severe addictions (say a few codeine tabs a day).
I have a hard time seeing myself eating 40 to 90 Norco 10 tabs a day, (400 ~ 900 MG!) but I guess with tolerance makes it easy for people to do. I guess addiction is addiction no matter the level.

I always used Hydro: from Vicodin 5/500 to Vicodin ES 7.5/7xx to Vicoprofen 7.5/200 to Norco 10/325.


I've been taking it for 12 years, but only on an everyday basis since June 2007, and THAT's when I got addicted, because I got scripts for Vicoprofen, and knowing there was zero Tylenol in them, I was less careful, and took as much as I wanted. But the thing is, I didn't take massively more & more Hydro, like going up a mountain. Yes I take more now than when I started, but I have not allowed it to scale exponentally. probably because the doctors ive had would never give me massive amounts. The most I was ever getting on a regular basis was 60x 10/325 tabs with 3 refills, and I'd refill every 7-10 days, or there about. It's actually dropped off to getting 30x tabs with zero refills, so im always closer to running out now, thus, I've been looking into Suboxone and found this place.


Okay: About my name, ParallaxScroll, it's a term used in scrolling graphics for older video games, where one background scrolls at a different speed than another background in front or back, creating the illusion of depth. It means nothing in the world of things.


Please excuse my somewhat ramble of a post. I've been up all day. my computer monitor blew out and had to run around town finding a new one, and drive to Walgreens to pick up a refill that came through, buying me more time to get on the road to Suboxone (or Subutex),,, which i hope happens. Wish me luck.... And I am keeping my fingers crossed for EVERYONE here that is suffering, and trying to get on Suboxone, and trying to fight this monster known as opiate addiction.
I am really appreciating all of the advise & encouragement from everyone here.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:16 am 
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Jim's useless tidbit:

Parallax scrolling was usually done in hardware, because in software it would take up too much time. You draw the pixels offscreen and shift the start address of the screen to 'scroll' it basically.

Wow, all the college and computer programming actually has some use for once!

Jim

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