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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:12 am 
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Hi everybody. Im new here, Im a 32 year old generally healthy, lean, 6', 210 lbs male with hep C.. Ive been battling heroin addiction for 16 years off and on (more on than off)... Ive been on bupe for 14 months now and I smoke marijuana on a daily basis which i plan on quiting too once im off the subs.. About 2 months ago I started to slowly lower my dose from 16mg ED im now down to 4mg ED been at this dose for about 2 weeks now and im really feeling like TOTAL crap at night. Sleeping is fractured tossing and turning all night, TERRIBLE cold sweats, I sweat profusely and have to change my clothes in the am and in the middle of the night 75% of the time as well. My bones hurt especially my elbows, knees and oddly enough the small joints in my fingers and toes (thats a new one). My mind set is totally off and I dont feel like myself what so ever.. Are these symptoms normal at this dose???? I know everyone is different but im starting to think maybe Im dropping my dose to rapidly here and really need some insight on this. Should I bump my dose back up to 6mg to try to stabalize or keep going down? During the day im OK i guess, a bit moody and detached from wanting much human contact. At night I feel the worst, which I find weird cause 4mg should keep me from getting ill for 24 hours I would think. Should I try to split my dose in half and try taking 2 mg in the am and 2 mg at night before bedtime? I just want to be free from this drug once and for all and get on with my life and get back to work asap. Any replies are much appreciated.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:30 am 
Tapering erratically is not a good idea.

If I were you and bc you've been at this dose for a couple weeks already, I would first try splitting the dose, 2 mg in the am and 2 mg at night. If you still feel crappy, try going back up to 6 mg, stabilize, and continue your taper properly, meaning no large dose reductions and taking the time you need to taper gradually.

Remember, slow (just not TOO slow) and steady wins the race!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:08 am 
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I would definately try splitting your dose, when you get to lower doses the long half life does not apply. This will happen at a different dose for all of us. When once a day dosing isn't holding you anymore Dr. J recommends going to twice a day dosing.

Another thing people do when they hit a rough spot is dose 6mg one day then 4mg the next and then 6mg and 4mg and so on until they stabilize and can just take the lower dose without problems. This will help your body become used to 4mg, rather than just dropping down to it all at once.

Once stabilized on a dose you should hang out there for at least a week or 2 before dropping again.

I hope this helps and wish you the best of luck with your taper!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:35 am 
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Okay awesome! This place rules, I would have never thought of this. Im gonna try that 6mg/4mg taper for the next week and see how it goes, I like how that sounds. Should I split these doses in half you think? Breezy mentioned the half life means nothing at these low doses.

Ive got a damn wisdom tooth just coming in too which is really starting to bother me, the whole right side of my face/ear area bothers me on occasion. Its becoming more frequent as time passes. Oddly enough its the only one Ive ever had and it decides to come in at the worst time, and really late in life I would think. Anyway Im really glad I stumbled upon this forum while googling for my symptoms. Thanks to everyone for their replies present and future.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:14 pm 
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I agree that trying the every other day dosing taper will help you slow things down. So once you stabilize at 5 mg, which is essentially what you'll be doing, just slow down your taper after that so you don't experience this again. Dr. Junig recommends dropping one's dose by only about 10% (others as high as 25%) each time you drop. Think of it this way: You want to remove these opiates that your brain is so accustomed to very, very slowly - as slowly as possible, so much so that the brain will barely notice it. This way you'll reduce the severity of both acute and post-acute withdrawals. That's the best way to taper - long, low, and slow.

Good luck to you and keep asking questions if you have more. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:29 pm 
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You may still be comfortable with once a day dosing when going back and forth but splitting your dose up will help your blood levels to stay more steady. I guess you'll just have to see how you feel. Eventually you will want to dose twice per day so there is nothing wrong with starting now.

Hat brings up a good point, you must drop much slower the lower you get. Going from 12mg to 8mg isn't a big deal but dropping from 6mg to 4mg will be felt. The slower you go the less symptoms you will feel. Yeah it will take longer but you will be much more comfortable.

Another thing that's beneficial is keeping a kind of journal taper thread. It allows you to see your progress and also gives you a place to vent when you are having a rough time. This can also be very beneficial to others that are seeking info on tapering off sub and benefit you by allowing others to offer their advice and past experiences.

This is a very supportive community and I hope you stick around, it's nice to know you have people that genuinely care and are rooting you on. Good luck!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:08 pm 
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Breezy_Ann wrote:
You may still be comfortable with once a day dosing when going back and forth but splitting your dose up will help your blood levels to stay more steady. I guess you'll just have to see how you feel. Eventually you will want to dose twice per day so there is nothing wrong with starting now.

Hat brings up a good point, you must drop much slower the lower you get. Going from 12mg to 8mg isn't a big deal but dropping from 6mg to 4mg will be felt. The slower you go the less symptoms you will feel. Yeah it will take longer but you will be much more comfortable.

Another thing that's beneficial is keeping a kind of journal taper thread. It allows you to see your progress and also gives you a place to vent when you are having a rough time. This can also be very beneficial to others that are seeking info on tapering off sub and benefit you by allowing others to offer their advice and past experiences.

This is a very supportive community and I hope you stick around, it's nice to know you have people that genuinely care and are rooting you on. Good luck!



I know what you mean, the drops between 16mg and 8mg were a peice of cake. Once I got to 6mg it got a bit worse, but still barley noticeable (maybe a little night sweating and minimal morning anxiety but that was it). Now the drop from 6mg to 4mg like I explained above was a total @#$%^.

Is there a specific place to start a journal thread? I would be in to this as im not working at the moment and It dosent look like I will be going back for at least another 2 months. I want to be 110%, and in the right frame of mind before I even start thinking about that as Im in sales and I CANT be irritable at work.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:29 pm 
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People typically post them in the stopping suboxone section. There are quite a few taper journals there and reading thru them can give you an idea of what to expect and what has worked or not worked for others. As long as you take it slow and give your body time to adjust before dropping again, you can get off sub without many problems.

The members that have tapered slow and low say they stepped off sub rather than jumping and experienced minimal discomfort. Staying positive will be very helpful, don't let the horror stories get to you. Don't hesitate to ask any questions you may have along the way, there are a lot of knowledgeable people here that want to help anyone they can. Welcome to our little online family, I hope you find it as helpful and comforting as I have.


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 Post subject: Pot
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:40 pm 
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Hey Slim,

From one (ex) pot smoker to another, my advice would be to quit while still on suboxone. I found it much easier to quit while I was on suboxone. Note: I am still on suboxone. I do speak from experience, I started smoking pot when I was 17 and was a daily smoker until age 42. You know the drill, bowl before work, at lunch, on the way home, several times in the evening. I continued to smoke during my oxy years. Suboxone, however, seemed to satisfy the pot urge too, and quitting was surprisingly easy. Give it a shot for a couple days, what have you got to lose?

Regards,
Jimmy


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:06 am 
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Just wanted to drop in,, and say
WELCOME to the family
P-slim

your in the right place!!!

and hope you have a very MERRY CHRISTMAS


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:39 am 
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Thanks guys for the warming welcome. Ooof, yea Id have to give some serious thought to stop smoking it all together just like that. I honestly dont think Im ready to do that. I feel like it boosts the bupes a bit as both substances prey upon the same receptors in the brain. My bupe Dr. actually encourages me to stay on it right now. Ive been peeing dirty for MJ for quite some time. Lets rewind a bit so I can elaborate on this, see I WAS on 6mg of klonopin a day along with my bupe up until about 7 months ago. I wasnt smoking herb during this time that I was taking the pins, when I came off the pins I started to smoke again because it helped ease the anxiety I was experiencing and Ive been smoking ever since. So I feel like it REALLY helped me through that time. I could function at 100% while coming off the pins while still smoking at the same time. It has actually gotten to the point where like you said im smoking morning noon and night with all this idle time that I have...but I feel like I handle it very well for the time being. I will most likely smoke until a few weeks after Im off the bupe to be honest. Id really like to have something to calm my nerves once I take the jump. Does this make sense or am I completely out of line here in my thinking?


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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