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Do you think it's time for me to taper?
Yes 54%  54%  [ 7 ]
No 46%  46%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 13
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:43 pm 
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Hey, I was just reading over your thread trying to catch up because I haven't had much time for the forum lately. It's funny, what you said in your last post was exactly what I was thinking you should do, i.e. staying at 6 mg for a good month or so. If you wait until March 1, that will be about a month. You were on 24 mg for something like 5 years, right? So now you're at 25% of that! That is a HUGE drop. I know you're anxious to get this done, but I would consider staying above 4mg for quite a while. Your body has a lot of adjustments to make, and it's probably better for that to happen while you're still safely above the ceiling. Does that make sense? Also, as much as I'd like to be a size 6 myself, that's a pretty dramatic weight loss for 6 mos. or so. Is it the nausea or diarrhea? (sorry). I know this is a thin loving society, but rapid weight loss can be a sign of being very sick. Do you see any other doctor besides the "boss".
You're doing great - hang in there. Oh, and about your boyfriend, maybe he read the forum and was afraid you were dumping him! Don't think of it as getting dumped, he just did the dirty work so you didn't have to.
Stay strong,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:03 pm 
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Hi CouNSeLoR iN ReCoVeRy LaDy,

March 1st sounds like a good goal to me, especially seeing as you're pretty close to being stable here at 6mg.

You used to share your cookies? Well, you're a better person that I. I used to hoard those things like they were going out of style! I remember busting my little brother in the lip when he tried to elbow in on my stash. Yeah, I got an ass whooping for that AND lost my stash!! :x

I know the break-up was hard and being alone is hard too. You know we're with you though!! :D

I sure hope you keep posting because your progress is sure to be an inspiration to many.


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 Post subject: 2~22~11
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:22 pm 
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Hey All!! So, I'm still hanging in there at 6mg, despite a couple of days this past weekend where I chipped off mini pieces with my nail because I couldn't stop yawning and my eyes wouldn't stop watering, and I was like at work or out to dinner. I think my March 1st goal is BS and I will not be going down at all then. I'm going to wait. Obviously 6mg is not a stable dose for me. I just took my 4mg about an hour ago and I'm already yawning and plotting out when I can get that other 2mg in me... This is so ridiculous! I feel like this whole thing is messing with my head. I wish I had like a month off where I could just BE SICK and jump off right here. However, I've been advised by someone who had been there and done that, that it's not at all advisable. LoL!! It almost makes me think about the rapid detox thing that you have to go to like Michigan or somewhere for and pay like $10,000. It sounds worth it lol... Who knows... Not that I have $10K but still... Ugh! I feel a little more emotionally stable, but wicked irritable - I like want to kill my mother just for existing in the room with me because it seems like when I feel withdrawaly that her voice is like knives lolol...I wouldn't really hurt her or anything, I'm just trying to express that weird things have been going through my mind with this last jump - suicide, homocide, relapse, etc. They are just thoughts, I know, but they're freakin' me out bigtime!! As a counselor myself, I recognize that it's all due to the tapering, but it's freakin' nuts!!! I have even been isolating from friends, because I've been saying and doing things that are so out of character for me - UGH! Hopefully this will subside soon!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:31 pm 
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Having trouble stabilizing while tapering down a Suboxone dose is pretty normal. Lots and lots and lots of people have trouble during their taper, especially once they reach the 'ceiling'. Most agree the ceiling is around 4mg, but yours may certainly be around 6mg and this could be causing you additional problems. If you're not stable at 6mg, then I absolutely agree that your March 1st date to drop again is BS.

Being highly irritable during the taper process is pretty common too. I have heard from several members, who are tapering or have tapered, that they were highly irritable as well.

I'm going to be completely honest with you and tell you that isolating yourself from your friends scares me for you. Are these same friends part of your support system? If they are, I can only encourage you to not isolate yourself. Be open and honest with them, ask them to help you. I know it's hard as hell to ask for help sometimes, but it's worth it!!

Are there other counselors where you work, could you possibly lean on them for help too?


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 Post subject: Sorry
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:28 pm 
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I'm so sorry you are struggling like this. I know it seriously SUCKS!!!!

I agree with you. Your March 1st date is BS. You cannot do it. If there is one thing that people who want to taper successfully HAVE to understand is that it takes a massive amount of patience. It's frustrating how much patience it takes, but if you push yourself past the limits your body is clearly showing, you will fail. Take it from me, as I have done that too many times to count. You have to stop and give it however long it takes until you feel 100% fine at this dose. If you are still feeling yucky at 6 mg, I cannot even stress enough to you that you will be hating life if you drop down toward the ceiling. It's okay, though. You aren't stagnant, if you think about it. If you just stay where you are, and you let yourself get super duper comfy there, you will be setting yourself up for a much easier time of it later.

I know a lot of people don't think it makes much difference to split up your dose, but to me, it makes a world of difference. When I'm not stable at a dose, I take it in many pieces. If I don't, I'm much more miserable. Can you take your 6 mg in 3 pieces of 2? Just a thought....and don't feel bad. There's no stop watch timing you. You have to go at the rate your body will allow you to. :)

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:53 am 
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Hi, i am new here and posting my first official post here.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:51 pm 
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Hi Anne and welcome! Because this is the end of a very long thread, you should post your intro as a new topic under Introductions, where people will see it . If you feel comfortable it would be good to say a few words about what brought you here, and whether you are currently on Sub.
Thanks for posting,
Lilly


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 Post subject: 3~13~11
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:49 pm 
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Hi Anne:) Thanks for posting and welcome!!

So, I appologize to all my loyal readers for the lack of posts lately. It's been super crazy here! As for the taper, I just went crazy and jumped from 6mg to 4mg this past week. I think it's roughly day 5 or 6 on this 4mg (2mg in the am and 2mg before bed) and I feel ok. My stomach is a little ticked off as of this morning, but for some reason it was no where near as bad going from 6 to 4 as it was going from 8 to 6... why is that? what is wrong with me!?!?!?! there's got to be some crazy explaination for that - and yes people, I would love to hear why jumping 2mg was easier at a lower dose!? something to do with the whole ceiling thing you people talk about!?!?! tell me!!! And also, what is the whole ceiling thing - I did try to research this and haven't found very much! (links would be helpful if you don't feel like explaining) lol.. anyways, hope you all are doing well and just wanted to let everyone know, I'm still pushing along here!!!

~CiR~


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 Post subject: Here is why
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:43 am 
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Here's why it was easier....it was easier just because. I'm serious, though. Sometimes, there's not rhyme or reason to tapering. I had the same thing. Some lower drops were easier than higher drops and it's a nice surprise, isn't it? My theory would be that you stayed at 6 mg for a good, long while, and so your body was very stable there. When you went to 4, you weren't paying for any previous drops. That's the beauty of giving yourself time to stabilize. That's why you are actually getting somewhere when you are staying put. Going from 6 mg to 4 mg is a pretty good size drop, too, so congratulations! I absolutely could not have dropped that much. I had to go down in more than 2 increments to get down from 6 to 4, but I kept on dropping and dropping and didn't give myself that time.

You are doing great! You've come soooo far!! Aren't you pretty impressed with yourself? You sound upbeat, too. You sound like you are doing well. I'm really happy for you, girl!!

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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 Post subject: i've read ENOUGH
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:09 am 
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I'm not reading all four pages ...the first page was enough LOL. I can see Don H blushing through the computor screen as he gives this "female" drug counciler advice. First, I sure wouldn't want you as my MMT councilor for the sheer stand you take on done. Done may hold some as long as you say but I barely make it 14 hours before the WDs start. Have you ever been thru full blown WDs and had months of clean time? Honestly, I never even could decipher your question. We are not your Dr. so think logically given your profession.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Indigochild:
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here.
First of all, my "stand" on methadone has absolutely nothing to do with my counseling abilities, nevermind my suboxone treatment, nor my recovery in general. I'm not on methadone and never have been. I've seen it kill people and I've seen in save lives. I'm not here to discuss that though.
Secondly, yes, I have been through 'full blown' withdrawals enough in my life to know what I'm talking about. And yes, I've had months and YEARS of clean time. Also, I never asked anyone medical advice. I've asked about other's experiences and received lots of feedback. I know you're not doctors. I am no doctor either and never claimed to be. I know what I do for my job and that's working with methadone patients. Not Suboxone. Not ever. So, asking clinical questions to you would be pointless. I have a doctor for that. I don't understand if you're just trying to piss me off, scare me away, or you're just in a mood. I don't know you and from the looks of your post, I'm good with that.
[hr]
Anyways, none of that matters. And I'm pretty sure I didn't even ask a question until a couple of pages ago. I was introducing myself. I'm not here to argue with anyone or be involved in any drama. I'm not here to piss anyone off or get on anyone's nerves. You don't want to read all four pages - doesn't matter to me.
Not sure what the whole thing about "female" counselor means either.
Yes, I'm a female, and yes I've been a counselor for years. Not weeks. Not months.
Anyways...
For the rest of you who still may care:
I'm holding out at 4mg. Been having a roller coster ride here. Some days it feels like I didn't even take it - some days I feel over-medicated. I had some bloodwork done to see what the heck else could be wrong with me. We shall see. Hope you all are well - Romeo, Ladder - hope you're both hanging in there and doing ok! Sorry I haven't written much, just been super crazy for the past few weeks!!
Take care all!!
CiR


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:56 pm 
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Hey, CIR and thanks for checking in!!I've been wondering about you. You may be hitting a plateau and need to take a long break from tapering like me. It happens. You dropped very far, very fast.

Indigo, I would respectfully love to know why you are so rude to people. I don't understand it. Why would you say things in a way that you know could hurt people's feelings? Why even bother responding if you just want to be nasty? You don't even know this person, yet you are okay with treating them with zero respect. Obviously you have something else going on and it comes out on here as negativity. There are lots of kind people on here, so I hope in the future, you'll just share what you are going through and give us a chance to help you out. We are supposed to be respectful on here to each other, so please follow those rules. It keeps it a better place for everyone.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:04 pm 
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CiR,

Well, are you ever a sight for sore eyes!! So good to hear from you again.

CiR, how are you taking your med's, all at once or are you breaking it up throughout the day?

Hey, 4mg is nothing to sneeze at, tapering is work and it takes time, no doubt about it.

Again, good to hear from you again.

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 Post subject: 7~25~11
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:39 pm 
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Hey guys! I know I've been MIA for the past few months. Things have been crazy to say the least! I'm down to about 3mg per day, give or take a few crumbs, and trying to go down to 2mg...Again, it's a pain in the butt breaking up the 8mg tablets...ugh! Especially with this humidity for some reason they seem a little more sticky/crumbly... Anyways, after my break-up back in February, I was down about 30lbs from Fall 2010 from all the tapering I believe...Now I've been sleeping a lot more and gained about 12lbs back. Yuk! So, I talked to my Dr. today and we discussed how it's going to go towards the end...He said it will probably be 2mg for 5 or more days, 1mg for 5 or more days, then NOTHING. This seems like a little harsh from what I've seen on this website, especially with those who are doing the liquid method or breaking it down to .25 and less and less! However, this is probably because he still thinks I'm on 24mg per day and doesn't want me thinking about low doses. I seriously wish I could just be like ok - here's the deal - I've been tapering like a mad woman and I'm on 3mg now so GET ME OUTTA HERE! Not sure what I'm going to tell him when and if I do ever get off completely. He wasn't very reassuring today. He basically said I have a 90% relapse chance if I ever do get off and basically told me that I should be on Subs forever, because "like a diabetic, you wouldn't take them off of their insulin"... Seriously!? I know I've said this to patients who are on methadone because it seems to be the thing to say for some reason, but it is NOT the same at all... A diabetic can like DIE or get really sick without their insulin - All I can think it that without Subs, I will be FREE and DONE with a chapter of my life that I'm not particularly proud of, but has taught me a great deal. Now, maybe my chances are slim, but dammit! I can do it! I figure, if I was able to stop using massive amounts of heroin several times per day after 5 years, then I can certainly stop these Subs. I guess I'm just looking from some encouragement at this point. I want to know that it IS possible and that I do have SOME chance to NOT relapse...Ugh! Thanks for listening and I hope all you guys are doing well:)
CiR


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 Post subject: Re: 7~25~11
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:36 am 
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CounselorinRecovery wrote:
Hey guys! I know I've been MIA for the past few months. Things have been crazy to say the least! I'm down to about 3mg per day, give or take a few crumbs, and trying to go down to 2mg...Again, it's a pain in the butt breaking up the 8mg tablets...ugh! Especially with this humidity for some reason they seem a little more sticky/crumbly... Anyways, after my break-up back in February, I was down about 30lbs from Fall 2010 from all the tapering I believe...Now I've been sleeping a lot more and gained about 12lbs back. Yuk! So, I talked to my Dr. today and we discussed how it's going to go towards the end...He said it will probably be 2mg for 5 or more days, 1mg for 5 or more days, then NOTHING. This seems like a little harsh from what I've seen on this website, especially with those who are doing the liquid method or breaking it down to .25 and less and less! However, this is probably because he still thinks I'm on 24mg per day and doesn't want me thinking about low doses. I seriously wish I could just be like ok - here's the deal - I've been tapering like a mad woman and I'm on 3mg now so GET ME OUTTA HERE! Not sure what I'm going to tell him when and if I do ever get off completely. He wasn't very reassuring today. He basically said I have a 90% relapse chance if I ever do get off and basically told me that I should be on Subs forever, because "like a diabetic, you wouldn't take them off of their insulin"... Seriously!? I know I've said this to patients who are on methadone because it seems to be the thing to say for some reason, but it is NOT the same at all... A diabetic can like DIE or get really sick without their insulin - All I can think it that without Subs, I will be FREE and DONE with a chapter of my life that I'm not particularly proud of, but has taught me a great deal. Now, maybe my chances are slim, but dammit! I can do it! I figure, if I was able to stop using massive amounts of heroin several times per day after 5 years, then I can certainly stop these Subs. I guess I'm just looking from some encouragement at this point. I want to know that it IS possible and that I do have SOME chance to NOT relapse...Ugh! Thanks for listening and I hope all you guys are doing well:)
CiR


Wow, your doctor still thinks you're on 24 mg, lol! His idea of 5 days on 2 and 1 and then nothing is.....quite fast. However, tapering low is hard too, so if you can do that, then I say GO FOR IT! Obviously, the worst that can happen is that you go back onto a smaller amount.

I know opiate addiction has a very high relapse rate. However, even saying it has a 90 % relapse rate means there's a 10% success rate. If every opiate addict stays on Suboxone forever, then 10% of them are on it even though they could be successful without it. It takes a ton of discipline to taper down like you've done, and I do believe you have it in you to make good decisions. By that, I mean that you may be able to stay off opiates and Suboxone, and if you feel the cravings overwhelming you, you will be able to make a smart decision and go back onto Subs. Don't get psyched out by statistics, because the only person who knows whether it is working for you is going to be you. Your doctor doesn't know you better than you know yourself.

Good luck! Are you going to be able to take any time off work for this rapid taper?

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:33 am 
CounselorinRecovery wrote:

Anyways, I've been on 24mg of methadone for five years. I want to taper so bad, I can't stop thinking about it. My Sub provider, who is also my PCP at this time, says, "NO NO NO" whenever I discuss tapering.


Excuse me, but are you on methadone, or on Suboxone? I am confused.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:53 am 
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Hi, I'm new here. I have a couple of observations if anyone cares...

1.If you are on a computer, you are not in withdrawal.
B. If you are spilling that much info out at one time, you are on something.
III. Yes, I am on Suboxone and Cannibas. Doing great! just came by to see what others are doing.

I actually feel at home here.


BTW: She's on Suboxone. I recognize the tweakin'!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:30 am 
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What they need to do is have the tablets the same size and color and shape with no markings. Only the doctor knows what he's giving you. Mind over matter every damn time I think about decreasing my dosage of anything. Give me a damned placebo & I'll bet it works. Just so I don't know... :D

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:03 pm 
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as a Drug and Alcohol counselor, you must be aware how high a relapse rate is when one suddenly stops using an opiate maintenance medicine. Take it very slowly and see how you feel. I started on 8 milligrams and am now on 4... I am going very very slowly.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:55 am 
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Update: 7/13/12.

Ironic: Sorry, I work at a methadone program. I am on suboxone. I must have been typing fast and made an error.

Joe S: 1. You can be experiencing withdrawal symptoms and be on a computer. I assure you. I'm sure I wasn't saying it was full-blown withdrawal.
2. I use no other substances.

Whoever else: I'm now down to 1-1.5mg of Suboxone per day. It's been a long road. 24 to barely anything. I was able to get a few 2mg strips to cut up rather than dealing with the crumbling mess of tiny shard of the 8mg pills. I hope to be done this month or next month, but I understand this can drag out. My goal is to get off completely. Yes, I do understand the implications of quitting altogether.

And to the others: if you don't like what I type on here, you are not obligated to read it, nor to reply to it. No one is twisting your arm. If anything, I have dedicated my life to helping others. It's been my career for many years now.

Since my last set of posts: I bought a house. BOOYAH!


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