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 Post subject: Never Recovering?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:37 am 
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Hi all,

I don't want to sound like a drama queen, an attention seeker or someone really weak.

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of my own issues and really need an understanding ear and opinions/experiences of others please.

The question is : is it possible that some unlucky people you never really get over opioid addiction?

In terms of physical withdrawal symptoms, granted they are awful, but they are a walk in the park when compared to the mental pain (and damage?) caused.

You can read my story here

real-need-advice-please-please-help-you-can-t11808.html

I've never really had stable, good mental health.

When I took opioids I noticed a huge difference. Not in feeling 'high' but just feeling mentally stable.

When I then packed opioids in 3 years ago, I've never ever recovered in terms of mental health issues. Nothing i do, medications, exercise, cbt, ECT (!) NOTHING helps.

Constant agitation, dread, sinking feeling, etc, anger, aggression, tears, severe anhedonia, severe restlessness, doom, sickly, etc.

So, I'm back on opioids and I'm getting Bupe next week. If I need to be on it for life then so be it.

I think originally taking opioids somehow helped balance out my brain chemistry, and for this reason I actually believe I genuinely need it, or something similar (Bupe) to function.

What are your thoughts please?

I plan to get an SSRI alongside it too.

Sorry for going on, and if I sound crazy, but I genuinely believe I'm being drawn towards opiates not because of the high, but because they actually do improve some aspects of brain chemistry!? I literally have never been anywhere near stable since initially quitting them 3 years ago.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Never Recovering?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:38 am 
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Hi Mysterio, First, It breaks my heart to read how you feel everyday and how you don't get relief ever! I could not do it! I started having some depression with menopause and I had been prescribed tramadol for osteoarthritis. Of course, I started taking more and more tramadol to get that little bump in mood and energy...the rest is history. The depression that came along with withdrawl was too much for me to deal with so thank God for suboxone! I work with people who struggle with addiction and their mental health diagnosis. I have always felt that they are the strongest people I know!But, my experience with them has been that it can take a while to get your brain chemistry functioning normally or at least at a level where you feel some sense of normalcy. Keep trying medications until you find one that works for you. I think I remember you saying that you have been diagnosed with depression and at one point schizophrenia? What do you think it is? Stay away from the anti psychotics if you don't feel that you are schizophrenic. What depression meds have you tried? It sucks that they can take such a long time to make an impact! Have you tried abilify with your depression med? I have seen it really help some. I consider myself lucky cause i have a strong faith in God. It gets me through my feeling really bad about myself. I also love the 12 steps as a way of life. But, thats just me. Find what works for you. I love nature so just being outside near the ocean or with wildlife brings me joy. Do you draw, paint, write? Try! Or go looking for something that you enjoy! I hope this response helps even in a little bit!


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 Post subject: Re: Never Recovering?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:05 pm 
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I just wanted to share my story with you. I have been diagnosed with mdd, anixety disorder, and adhd. Had all before suboxone, during subs, and now even after. I have heard of suboxone being used to treat depression in some extreme cases. I would talk with a psych you trust, if you don't feel its helping seek a second or even third opinion. While I was on subs and had great insurance I was also on viibryd, a fairly new antidepressant thought to have little side effects (not sure if I can agree with this), rememron and ambien for sleep (doc said remeron is an antidepressant but has sedating qualities and not too take it too often because it can cause weight gain) and concerta on an as needed basis, on days I worked, and he said I should try taking 2 days a week off. Sometimes I worked 6 or 7 days and needed it more often, but he always prescribed enough.

I went through a difficult emotional time and ended up upping my viibryd from the smallest dose to the highest dose, and started having to take the remeron and ambien every night for sleep. I ended up gaining 60 lbs and the sexual side effects were very bad.

I lost my good ins, knew I was going to be losing it, so I started weaning jmyself off it. Over the course of about 3 weeks I was off completely. And had no more ambien, remeron, or concerta either. I lost ten lbs right away.

With my new ins I went to see my family doc and told him of my mdd and trouble sleeping, he put me on wellbutrin xr and ambien. A month later I quit subs and ten days after I quit he doubled my dose of wellbutrin. Do I still feel depressed? Yes, but to me that's normal. I am happy to say since quitting subs I've lost at least 20 more lbs.

I made an appt with a new psych but can't get in til October 22. So ill keep what I'm taking now. I've tried many diff meds in the past, I'm not sure what the psych will reccomend. I know I am very concerned about side effects and want to be cautious how I proceed. Unfortunately nobodys the same so finding a combo of meds that are effective takes some trial and error. I know it sucks, I am 32 yo and been off and on diff meds since I was 8 and still not sure what's best for me. I've gotten frustrated before and even given up on meds all together. I just know I need to be patient, honest, and keep trying. I think you should do the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Never Recovering?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:14 pm 
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Also, medication is only one part of a successful treatment plan. Maybe you should see a therapist, too. I've had good and bad ones, some I've liked, one I actually walked out in the middle of a session I was so upset with her! That's trial and error too. Find someone you work well with and talk about your trials and struggles with them in conjunction with complying with your meds. If then you still feel soooo depressed, it may be a good idea to seek inpatient therapy. The drs can up your dose quicker there because you'll be under medical supervision, and the therapy is more intense. I even went to iop or intense outpatient therapy once, where you go for maybe 5 hrs a day and do individual and group therapy. The therapist I saw there was wonderful and very supportive. There's help and support out there you just have to find it. And I know when your so depressed its hard to look, but you really need to so you can start feeling better. Depression is no joke, it can be really dark. I know first hand. And unfortunately people who haven't struggled with it have a hard time understanding it, even if they truly mean well. You need professional help.


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 Post subject: Re: Never Recovering?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:55 pm 
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Thanks for the replies people.

The point I'm trying to make is - can / does Subutex help you at all with your depressions?

I'm 40 next, and been ill since I was about 18.

For a good year or so (many years ago) Prozac worked wonderfully for me. Never since.

I've tried EVERYTHING.

Prozac
Citalopram
Escitalopram
Sertraline
Paxil
Mirtazapine
Mirtazapine and Prozac
Venlafaxine
Duloxetine
Edronax
Trazodone
Apriprozole
Thorazine
Olanzapine
Olanzapine & Prozac
Pregabalin (good for 2 weeks, then fizzled out)
Lamictal

Too many more to mention (seriously)

Then of course, ECT x 15 electrocutions!

None helped. Prozac did years ago and was amazing help.

My diagnosis is Depression with Anxiety (dysthymia)
No Schizophrenia, No Bi Piolar. Nothiing else.

I, like you possibly do, doubt myself, but all I can say is that from waking on a morning (far worse time by far) I feel like death, and sinking....deep deep depression and "knots in my stomach", lack of interest and pleasure.

They're thinking I may even had ADD and I'm paying to see someone separate soon about this.

All I know is that, when I was younger I tried Ampheatamine. I wasn't "out of my head" I just feel content, calm.

On Codeine, I felt energized, happy, productive.

On Bupe, likewise.

It all points towards a Dopamine issue to me, but lo and behold, there are no Dopamine meds out there that aren't a massive massive struggle to get prescribed.

I genuinely feel Bupe may help me; and of course I've had to "get myself addicted" again to Opiates to even give it a try.

Read this study

https://www.naabt.org/documents/The_Bup ... ession.pdf

It totally sounds like me.

What would YOU do next?

I've seen countless CBT people, Psycholigsts, Psychiatrists, you name it. Especially over the past 4 years when I've been so ill and not been able to get out of bed.

The strangest thing ever is that, from taking ONE 0.4mg Buprenorphine, my entire outlook changes profoundly :-(


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 Post subject: Re: Never Recovering?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:37 pm 
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I'm not a doc, but I do remember reading somewhere that Suboxone could be prescribed off label to treat depression. Wow your list of meds tried is almost as long as mine! But there are others out there and combining certain ones seems to do the trick for some people. As far as the adhd, I was misdiagnosed for a couple other disoorders when I was younger, one being oppositional defiant disorder! I allways have to chuckle at that one. But adhd in adults has different symptoms than in children, I would read up on that and compare it to your symptoms before you go and talk with someone about it. I don't know that many drs would be okay for prescribing Subuxone for depression alone. You could always ask. But my sub dr liked to keep my medical and mental issues apart, he would have me see another doc in his practice if I was sick. And he knew about my meds from the psych cause the amphetimines always showed up in my urine.

When I first started Suboxone I wasn't on any other psych meds, and I felt I was able to deal ok. But as time went on I relized I really was depressed and it was interfering with my life so I got back on meds. That's funny you said that about the am being the worst, I once explained it to someone that when I woke up every day it felt like everyone I love had died. It was that bad. So I can relate.


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 Post subject: Re: Never Recovering?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:14 pm 
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It works on my depression that is a result of menopause. I read about a study in Sweeden where they were using suboxone to treat depression. Mysti, do you mind if I ask why you stopped the prozac? And did you ever add abilify? I wonder if you tried prozac and abilify together if it might help. ECT I know can help but I also know that it can wear off pretty quickly. I know I have said it before but you both are amazingly strong and I admire you both!


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 Post subject: Re: Never Recovering?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:47 pm 
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Hello Mysterio

Speaking from my own experience. Subxoxone helps my depression by 110%. I do take an SSRI in combination with the subs.

I am currently taking Viibryd which is a newer SSRI that I don't think made your list of antidepressants. maybe because it is fairly new .

I have taken my SSRI by itself for a year with no suboxone... And I have taken Subs by itself with No SSRI meds. by themselves, i NEVER truly got relief from my depression until I took these together .


Maybe because I am a depressed addict and I needed both...who knows?

But I am now going on two years taking both together and I have never felt better in my life.

I am so glad you are getting a prescription for Bup soon, because I think you can start living your life once you get stable on this med.

I personally will be on these meds for the rest of my life and I am totally ok with this. As long as it keeps working , I will keep taking it.

No reason to go back to where I was ...I hope you can do the same and I wish you all the best.


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 Post subject: Re: Never Recovering?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:54 pm 
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Hi Raudy, your post made my day! I love to hear about people having success with depression and their medications! It takes so long to get them working and working right! I know several people right now who are struggling and they are in such a dark place. My heart breaks for them. If I had to wake up everyday not feeling any joy, I don't know what I would do!


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 Post subject: Re: Never Recovering?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:25 am 
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Hey Raudy,

Congrats on your success with the sub/viibryd combo! I tried viibryd too because I've been on sooo many antidepressants that caused unwanted, intolerable side effects. My doc said this is a new antidepressant manufactured recently in Germany and was supposed to have little to no side effects, so I gave it a try. But I still experienced weight gain and extreme sexual side effects. Was just wondering if you experience either?


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 Post subject: Re: Never Recovering?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:28 am 
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Also id like to mention I took it while on subs too, and not sure if it helped with my depression because I had a lot of situational stress going on simutanouesly.


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 Post subject: Re: Never Recovering?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:35 pm 
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Thanks for the replies.

Well, I've managed to get it prescribed.

I have to pick up a daily tablet from my pharmacy though. I hope once I'm stable in a dose I will just then get it prescribed normally.

They tried/offered up to 10mg daily.

From experience, I know I can get great relief from around 2-3 mg per day (and that also seems to be the treshhold for depression too) so I said I only wanted 4mg. I plan to break the 4mg in half and see how I go.

I'm also getting Escitalopram from my psych. I'm expecting the two together will be really beneficial to me.

I'll keep you updated.

I must stress how very very ill I have been with depression and anxiety for years, including unsuccessful ECT. There comes a time when I've had to take matters into my own hands for the sake of my family. I couldn't be/have been much poorlier.

The fact is this -,if I start feeling better, it will be an amazing turnaround, and I think this thread may give others hope in future.

We shall see.

Any other reports on this type of spscenario are greatly received, if you could add your experiences.

Raudy, you honestly sound exactly like me, both in symptoms and outlook going forward. What is your dose of your combo please?

I hope it works long term, but if not, just long enough so I can take my lovely kids to Disney world and not be weeping on a morning before I face the due to feeling of doom, total lack of energy and interest.

Please, anyone else with views - chime in.

All the best to you all!


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