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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:08 pm 
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I'll try not to make this a long winded story.

Suboxone was a miracle drug for me. I don't care what horror stories people post. If it wasn't for sub, I'd still be on the street wondering where I can spend another $800 to get through the week. I refused to do dope so I was stuc spending obscene amounts on pills.

Fast forward withdrawals 4 times and relapsing 5 times I convinced myself to see a Suboxone doctor. I've been on 6-8MG a day. I use to be on crumbs but guess what? When I was almost off it I already started thinking about not taking it and dropping a Roxy again. No bueno. Plus Suboxone cured me of panic attacks and depression. Without any drug I suffer from severe panic attacks and impending doom for a week before it subsides. I haven't had one of those fits in the 3 years I've been on Sub.

I got a great job, an amazing hobby (I make YouTube videos and have been growing in popularity) and it makes the $300 for 60 a month (I stretech that over a much longer period) effortless. Now I have insurance and don't pay for any of it. Big difference from scoring pills off the street I assure you.

I want to start a game plan to wean off subs but these horror stories are scaring the begigas out of me. If I was internetless, I would swear it would be a walk in the park. 3 of my friends used Sub to get clean and none said the w/d even existed let alone bad.

However, being on it 3 years now is what scares me. I don't think I'm mentally prepared to be completely clean but I want to start preparing and taking it slow.

Would someone mind posting a success story or some positivity? I'm getting sick of reading people stating heroin is better and the withdrawals are the devil incarnate especially when Suboxone literally saved my life. Hell, I'm even getting married next year.

I look forward to hearing from some of you. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:11 pm 
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If you have the patience to sit through a liquid taper to really low doses, I can tell you from personal experience, it drastically lowers the amount of agony you have to sit through. That said, you'll have a longer, more drawn out crappy feeling that can be worse some days, or better on others, but in my opinion, if you're a working person this is the way to go.

I can't speak on full agonist WD. I've only gotten close once IMO - and even then it was fluish but not unbearable. I've jumped at 2MG Subs which felt worse to me because it felt neverending. But this time, when I jumped at fractions of a MG it was very easy. In fact, the taper was harder, and even that wasn't very hard at all.

Good luck, and congrats on getting married next year.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:46 pm 
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Thank you for the reply and the congrats.

It certainty calms my nerves to know once I'm ready, it will be an uphill battle but not a mountain if I taper slowly. I definitely consider myself someone who is sensitive to w/d but it's not so much the physical that scares me--but the anxiety and depression.

Infact, Suboxone has helped me so much with those two things I considered never coming off. However, that is something I don't want to do (never come off).

It just boggles my mind the horror stories I've read. People literally stating they'd rather still be on heroin? That type of stuff can really get the mind going in 100 directions. Especially to someone who's petrified of that drug. Not that I judge anyone fighting that battle. It's just not my DOC.

I don't want to sound like I'm a weak person or anything. Like I've said, I've fought through 4 cold turkey battles and the whole reason I started in Suboxone wasn't just to avoid a cold turkey detox, but to avoid a cold turkey detox, relapse then do it again in a vicious cycle that would never end. I NEEDED to get on a steady routine and suppress the reward system developed by taking a pill before or during everything I enjoy.

Sure, Suboxone can be rewarding and sure, I look forward to my dose. But nowhere near as often as I use to and no more getting up in the middle of the night to take something.

Maybe my thoughts on the drug will change once I try to get off. But for now; it truly is/was a life saver.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:57 pm 
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Hi Brink, I just wondered what your youtube channel is, I would like to check it out sometime
Thanks,
Happy


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:55 pm 
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Hey Brink,

It really bothers me that there is so much one sided information out there about Suboxone treatment and tapers. I have seen a lot of those bad stories as well, and it really bothers me that people don't think about the consequences of their (IMO) exaggerated war stories. Some other support forums wear their jump stories as a badge of honor, the more terrible the better!

We have many members here who have tapered, jumped, and lived sober lives after suboxone. And the majority of them say that it wasn't nearly as bad as they were expecting it to be once they are finished.

The fact that you have been in treatment for three years shouldn't be an issue either. The founder of our forum, Dr. Junig, says that being on suboxone for long periods of time doesn't effect your taper and jump process at all. In fact, I firmly believe that those who have been on suboxone for longer periods are better equipped to stay sober for the long haul. It gives you plenty of time to get those old patterns of behavior changed and time to build new, healthy coping skills. I remember a post from Dr. J not long ago that said a lot of his patients will stay in treatment from 3-5 years before they feel ready to jump. At that point many patients will decide on their own that they want to give life a try without suboxone. It would be far worse to discontinue treatment before you are ready just to avoid some imaginary expiration date put in place by some idiot on the internet or sitting in a cubicle in an DEA office.

Jumping off suboxone isn't painless, but it's not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. The key is to do a slow taper, down to a small amount. It takes patience and discipline, but it will make the wd a lot less severe in the end. Most people say that they are feeling close to normal within 21 days of their jump. EvolvedRevolver has a great thread about his liquid taper that you should check out.

Once you get to the point where you are ready to attempt it, there are lots of people here who will support you and help you any way we can.

Welcome to the forum!

Q

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:59 pm 
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happyg1961 wrote:
Hi Brink, I just wondered what your youtube channel is, I would like to check it out sometime
Thanks,
Happy


I'm not putting down your idea that it would be fun to know Brink's youtube channel, but don't be surprised if he doesn't share it. The youtube channel information may give away his identity and most people here prize their anonymity.

Brink, I would urge you to keep your goal as flexible as possible. Do I think you could taper off bupe and be successful? Yes! However there are a couple of things that I honed in on about your story. First, you acknowledge that you don't know if you're mentally prepared to be totally off sub. That is an important thing to know about yourself and I admire you for being honest with yourself. Still, your mental state in regards to bupe is not a reason to change your plan. Doing a nice, slow taper right now is a great way to prepare yourself to possibly step of bupe, or to figure out what the lowest effective dose is for you. Maybe you'll feel great on 1.5mg/day; no cravings, no withdrawal.

The other part of your story, and what I'm more concerned about is that you've had a cessation of severe anxiety and depression during the 3 years you've been on bupe. As I'm sure you know, that is not a coincidence. There is a small group of people (or maybe more than I'm aware of) for whom suboxone is exactly the medication that treats their depression and/or anxiety. Many people who are addicts have a comorbidity of mental illness or condition. In some cases these folks have tried everything for their depression, for example, and only a bupe medication works for them. We have had stories here about people who go off sub and they feel overwhelmed, not necessarily by cravings, but by depression or anxiety.

Is this you? We have no way of knowing that without you going through the process of tapering and stepping off if you feel the time is right. And people on this forum will support you when you decide to do it! And we will also support you if you find that going off sub doesn't make sense for you.

It is wonderful that you have a marriage to look forward to! Congratulations! I urge you to make sure you share your addiction with your fiance. Make sure your fiance knows about the role suboxone has had in helping you recover from your addiction.

Please share any other questions you have with us, and don't panic! The horror stories are just that, stories. You will arrive at your own truth as you continue with your recovery.

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:24 am 
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Wow, I didn't expect such exceptional replies. So well written as well. Just that fact makes me feel better. I think it's no coincidence the horror stories are in all caps or littered with immaturity. I agree, people don't recognize the impact those stories might have. Especially when it's apparent their experience was a result of poor planning, misinformation or lack thereof.

At this moment I'm not prepared to share my YT. Possibly privately in the future.

I've read Suboxone can treat anxiety as well and I am confident it is why I haven't had a fit in years. Those who are close to me that don't know I am prescribed Suboxone think I just grew out of it but I know the truth. And I don't think they know that's something you don't just "grow out" of. Anxiety and impending doom (I like that description more than depression because it's more of a fear of death than a desire to end it all) isn't a pair of shoes and trying to explain it to someone who has never experienced it just thinks it's "all in your head". Which is kind of true but is so rudimentary it's like saying being hungry is all in your head. While it's your brain that sends the signal, it's really your body telling you something. It's physiological.

As for being someone to admire, I appreciate the senteminte, but I doubt I'm very admirable. I'm just scared. I guess knowing when it's time to attempt to live sober is 50% of the battle, but do we ever truly know if we're ready? The true test is going to be sober and turning down your DOC. Something I don't think I'll ever stop battling with. I'm usually not so quick to agree with new labels by the medical industry but I truly believe addiction is a disease. And you're right--I believe my anxiety and depression had A LOT to do with my DOC because it just made me feel better. Not that without drugs I was an anxious and depressed individual. But I think it's definitely always subconsciously there.

I'm glad tapering Suboxone doesn't appear to be reliant on the length it is taken. I definitely plan on very slowly tapering when I want to give it a shot especially since I feel I'm sensitive to w/d.

Another question: has anyone experienced bleeding gums from the films? It's something that started happening recently when my mouth is dry and in the morning. Doctor said my blood is fine and the dentist claims my higeine is good. I got a cleaning anyway but still no relief. I think it might be because after I disolve the strip, I squish it in my mouth. Any thoughts on that or maybe it's not even related to it. I vape too so it could be the nicotine. Sorry to be so gross lol.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:54 pm 
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Hey Brink,

The bleeding gums isn't something I have seen talked about in relation to sub use. As you are probably aware, some people in treatment will attribute every single new medical problem they have to suboxone. It's often hard to tell if the new issue is related to subs, or just something they would have had to deal with anyway. However, opiates in general are known to cause dry mouth, which can contribute to a host of dental problems. Since bupe is an opiate, it's possible you may be experiencing some dental problems which are aggravated by it. There is a specific line of mouth wash and tooth paste that is supposed to help people with dry mouth. Maybe you could check into that? I'm not sure if dry mouth would cause bleeding gums, but it seems like it could be related.

Q

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:57 pm 
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Brink

I have similar panic. You are the first person i "know" who has a week from hell with anxiety, panic, impending doom etc. I had a few regular panic attacks throughout my life but it usually followed something traumatic. My young brother in law was murdered. I got few the first couple of months with just that sadness and grief but at about 6 months i got severe panic. For me i can't sit still when i have an attack. I have to walk, move, pace. I work 3 miles from my home & i would have to stop and get out of the car and pace until i could make it the rest of the way to work! That's how bad i would get. Anyway, when i switched to sub i noticed the panic attacks getting less frequent. It was a godsend to me! I have had a few episodes while on sub but nothing like when i was using. They are shorter in duration and decreased intensity. They still suck :x

I basically wanted you to know i feel suboxone has helped my anxiety/panic & depression, not to mention is helping me repair my life but if at some point i can't afford it or whatever i would do a long slow taper.

The other thing i wanted to mention is IMO, people who don't have a hard time getting off sub don't come to forums and write about it. The internet is great in some ways but in other ways i think ignorance is bliss :D That's why i don't think we see alot of positive jump story's. These people stop sub and continue to live their life's. Just my opinion.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:17 pm 
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Tiki wrote:
The other thing i wanted to mention is IMO, people who don't have a hard time getting off sub don't come to forums and write about it. The internet is great in some ways but in other ways i think ignorance is bliss :D That's why i don't think we see alot of positive jump story's. These people stop sub and continue to live their life's. Just my opinion.


Very good point Tiki! I agree 100%.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:54 pm 
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Tiki and Q,
I couldn't agree with you more about people who have no problems tapering off sub do not come to the internet to post! I say this as a person who is having a difficult time finishing my taper and I post a lot! Hahah! ;)

Sometimes i question if i should just quit posting and finish my taper and quit thinking about it. though if I would never have come to this forum i wouldn't know about the liquid taper method and i wouldn't feel the support of so many awesome amazing intelligent compassionate people (like Q and tiki just to name a couple!) I think i would just continue to drive myself crazy attempting to relate to my husband what I'm feeling in regards to my treatment. I just don't think there's anyone who can understand being on suboxone and coming away from active addiction unless they've been there.

So, I think the forum has been and continues to be a positive thing for me, despite the fact that I think when I attempted to jump I was focusing too much on documenting everything that I drove myself crazy and made myself think i felt even worse sometimes!! :)

Just wanted to add my three cents :)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:35 pm 
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Excellent points about positive stories not finding the forums.

A bit off topic:
What are you guys/gals doing for constipation?

I drink a ton of water and have been increasing my fiber intake but since I'm nervous I wont poop every day, I am taking Mirilax. It allows me to go every day but now it even though my "sessions" are quite adequate, I now sometimes feel there is "more to do". I also feel this is from Mirilax causing gas that gets trapped.

I'd also like to move away from a medicinal solution. Any natural, daily consumptions that are worth experimenting besides fiber and water?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:05 pm 
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A supplement called PoopDoc! I'm not even joking! You can buy it at Poopdoc.com its a magnesium based supplement I think. I use it from time to time and love it! Also I like the tea called Chiro-Cleanse I don't know where to get it though my mom got it at her chiropractic clinic. That tea is senna based. Hoop this helps!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:26 am 
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Coveinantly I just posted something about this miracle drug check it out see if it helps, there's no timeline on when YOU should stop it all depends on the person them self and if they are also in NA or counseling, but anyway just check out my post and see if that helps. Good luck chief and you got this :-)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:48 am 
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Brink

Miralax (spelling?) or ducolax (spelling ?) are easy on the system but provide results. It seems different things work for different people.


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