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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:35 am 
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[font=Arial] Hi...my name is Brandy. I am new to this forum and suboxone. Just to give you a little history I have been taking pain meds and other drugs since I was probably 20 years old and I am now 26. The first pill I ever took was at a party and it was a 10 mg methadone. Yes, methadone was/is my drug of choice and is very popular and quite easy to buy on the street in the part of the country where I live. Another part of my story is I formally worked at a pain clinic owned by a doctor who dealed out narcotics to anyone and everyone who paid the fee. I know it is my fault I am in my situation and I take responsibility for it. I just feel so stupid because I have seen so many ppl I know get addicted to pain meds and other substances..It seems I have should have known better since my addiction runs in my family. My father has been in and out of prison my entire life for misc drug, methamphetamine and other more serious offenses. Back to the main part of my story...The real problem started when my husband was prescribed methadone from our family doctor. (he is also an addict)

We shared the meds but there was never enough pills to make it until the next prescription so I became sick. At this point in my life I never experienced the nightmare of any drug withdrawals so i just thought I was sick or something. . I was sick for about 8 days. Then the next methadone Rx was filled and by the end of the month I found myself back in the same situation & sickness. The funny thing is I didnt want to "waste" the pills I bought from a friend because I thought I would vomit them right back up...so I waited about 3 days & took some. Magically the methadone made the sickness go away and I realized I/ my body was addicted to methadone and I was actually having withdrawals. So the plot thickens....I called our friendly local methadone clinic and the next Monday i was in a counselors office and on the methadone maintenence program. :shock:

So the sum my story up...about two and a half years passed and now I find myself in this situation. Yes, I failed a few drug tests here and there while I was at the clinic..mostly for adderall and once for Xanax at the end of my treatment there. The doctor put me on a blind dose so i did not know my dosage everyday and i went from 120mgs to 13 over a short period. I noticed because I started feeling the same symptons that made me go there in the first place. So...in almost a month I went from a pretty compliant patient to arguing with my treatment counselor and quitting the program. I felt like it was ruining my life with all the appointments..having to be there everyday by 9 am, so many meetings, so much money and dont even get me started on my vacation where I had to guest dose. My counselor was known by far as being the worst one at the clinic..I put in to change over 5 times and still no one could tell my why I couldnt switch to another counselor, preferably a female. So i quit and never looked back until I couldnt find any methadone on the street for a couple of days. I have been buying them off the street for about a month but I have been sick now for about 2 days.
Well, now that i have you up to speed on my situation here is the questions, yesterday I went to a doctor in town who prescribed me suboxone. I have never taken this drug before and I hope it helps me because i want my life back. I am ready to get it together. I dont go to parties or bars, I try not to make my problem any worse or tempt myself with other pain meds. My husband is also on methadone but he is switching over to suboxone. We are both in college and I am studying law but this problem is affecting my life now.

Feeling the way i do at this moment I feel so confused and torn between staying on the methadone or trying this new suboxone. I know I can get methadone right now from someone but I dont want to screw up. The last time I took any methadone was Sunday and it was only one pill of 10mgs. Today is Tuesday. I have not been on a steady dose of methadone in about 30 days. The doctor prescribed me 10- 7.5mg percocets and told me to take the suboxone on Wednesday. Well, You can probably guess that the percocets are gone now. I took the last one this morning. So today i have had one percocet and I feel terrible. I want to take the suboxone but I am scared it will make me sick. He warned me I could take it and experience terrible withdrawel symptoms...I cant call him up and ask for more percocets..believe me I have thought it over. CouLd I possibly take the suboxone now or should I wait one more day? I am afraid if i try and wait I will just get some other kind of pain med from someone and set myself back again. I have made it around a week withdrawing from methadone and believe me I will not go through that again. it was a nightmare..something out of a bad horror film. Please lend me any advice or experience that anyone out there has or knows about this. Thanks so much,
Brandy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:19 pm 
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Welcome to the forum Brandy.

Unfortunately your story rings true for many of us, it's not fun, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Many of us have been helped tremendously by Suboxone. It is an opiate, but it is only a partial agonist, meaning that it binds to an opiate receptor, but only interacts with it weakly. Even though Suboxone is only a partial agonist, it has an extremely high affinity for the opiate receptor (mu receptor I believe). This high affinity is why you have to wait for the other opiates to clear out of your system or else you will go into precipitated withdrawal (worst withdrawal ever). The Suboxone, once taken, will 'knock out' any other opiate present in your system and replace them with itself...the suboxone. You do have to be very careful.

Now, you said you took a Percocet today. Percocet are short lived. They will clear out fairly quickly. I waited 24 hours between my last Hydrocodone and before I took my Suboxone because I was only on short acting opiates at the time, but Methadone is a long lived opiate. I believe 3 days is the proper waiting period for Methadone, but I am not positive. I am sure another member of the forum with more knowledge of Methadone will post a reply for you soon.

Remember, you are not the only person in the world who has ever got hooked on pain meds. It happens to a lot of us. You're not a bad person, you're not a loser, you are most likely an addict though. Being an addict doesn't mean we have to be fuck ups, we can and do get better. Don't give up hope.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:48 pm 
Hi Brandi - It sounds like Suboxone could be a good option for you, especially since methadone was your drug of choice when you were actively using. I would agree that if at all possible you should wait until tomorrow morning to start the Sub. That would give you a full three days since your last dose of methadone and a full 24 hours after percocet. However, if you are in full on withdrawal later on today (pupils dialated, upset stomach) it would probably be better to start the Sub than to go out and get more painkillers. You might want to google the COWs scale to help determine whether you are in moderate withdrawal. It's not so much the number of hours that is important. This is all assuming, of course, that you have been on 30mg or lower of methdone over the last month. (You said you last dose was 10mg). People have reported difficultly getting on Sub from higher doses of methadone - and I wasn't clear on that part of your timeline.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

Lilly


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:18 pm 
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Hi Romeo and Lilly,
Thank you so much for your advice. I have been on less than 30mg of methadone for about 30 days or so. The dose has not been steady since I only take what i can get you know. Honestly, I have just taken the suboxone. well, I took half of one. It tasted terrible. It made me gag literally. I hope I will be okaY and this works for me. Right now I am doubtful but I think it is bc I know I could have methadone in about 2 hours. BUT I am not going to bother with it. Honestly, taking methadone and trying to detox myself was terrible. I dont quite know how I feel just yet but I am keeping my fingers crossed that this does not really screw me up as far as making me sick. This whole situation has really affected my entire life. I am on leave from college at the moment to start back in January, I dont feel like doing anything with anyone, and my husband and I fight constantly when we dont have enough methadone. I hope suboxone will help me and I really want to turn things around. Thanks for the advice once again, since I already took half of an 8mg suboxone I guess we will see how it goes.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:04 pm 
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Good luck! From what you described, at your dose of methadone the switch should be pretty easy (i hope!). Make sure you are dissolving the suboxone under your tongue and dont eat or drink for 15 minutes after it's done.

Hope it works out and let us know either way.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:38 pm 
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Hi and welcome to the forum. First I want to say please ease up on yourself about being an addict. You said it's in your family, which likely means you had a predisposition to it. So when you took that first pill, your brain chemistry "changed" (so to speak) and the rest is history. Addiction is NOT a matter of reasoning, self-control, or will power. It's a disease. The brain literally craves opiates. So please don't beat yourself up. I know shame is natural for us addicts, but to live a healthy life we have to work to overcome that shame. Forgive yourself and look forward, not back.

How are you doing since you took the suboxone? I think you should be fine taking it when you did. It doesn't sound like you had a huge amount of methadone in your system.

Suboxone is, I believe, a much better choice for you than methadone. Since it's your drug of choice being on it will just continue the cycle of active addiction. Please give suboxone a chance. You might feel a bit "off" when you first take it. Some people go so far as to describe it as a high, but that will subside after a few days. After that you will feel "normal". I predict once you stabilize on it that you will be like most (if not all) of us and you will see a HUGE change in your life for the better.

It's unfortunate that your doctor didn't do an in-office induction, because now you're on your own. You want to dose enough suboxone to get rid of your withdrawals. It will also take care of the physiological cravings that the brain has. If you're not sure what state your withdrawals are in, check your pupils. If they are still dilated (large), then consider taking more sub. If you feel okay and your pupils are normal or even very small, then you probably have enough in your system. Give it about an hour or so after your first dose before you take anymore. I hope your doctor gave you some specific instructions. With all this said, please keep in mind that I'm not a doctor; I'm just someone who's learned a lot about suboxone in the last 2 years.

Good luck and please let us know how you're doing. Again, welcome to the forum. I hope you stick around. I think you'll find you'll get a lot of support here.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:00 pm 
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Dear Cuteness,

Your story is so familiar. It is nice that you take responsibility for it, but the truth is, you are an addict, and you were only doing what addicts do. It takes some time, but I hope that once you become stable on Suboxone (and you will!) and your mind clears, you will be able to understand that you are a good person with a bad disease, and that you don't need to beat yourself up over the things that have happened in the past.

I used to take Methadone for pain, and certainly it has a great abuse potential. I got to the point where I took more and more, and would run out long before my next MD appointment. ...and then have to go through w/d yet again. I never knew how to buy anything on the street - which was good for me, because if I did know how I sure would've availed myself of that opportunity!

I think you're doing the right thing by getting off of it (the Methadone) since it is your DOC.

I recently had surgery and for the first 4 days when I came home I was just loaded with opiates, I have no idea how many oxys I took, but it was a lot. I got scared and flushed them all down the toilet. I wanted to start back on my Sub again but I was terrified of the precipitated w/d. I figured that the key would be to start out very slow as you can always take more, but once you have taken it there's no getting it back. I waited 24 hours and was already very ill. I started to take very small doses of Sub, just breaking the pill into really small pieces, every 4 hours or so, until I started to feel the w/d getting better. The next day I took 4 mg in the am, and I seemed to do OK so later that day I resumed my regular dose. I think you did OK by taking 4 mg when you did.

I think that you will be very happy with Suboxone. At least, I hope so. It changed my life!

~Rossma


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:18 am 
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Hey Brandy,

Just wanted to say welcome!!!! I am hoping and praying things went well today :D :!: :!: Suboxone has saved my life and I am hopeful you will feel the same way soon :!:

Hope to here from you soon, please let us know how you are doing????????


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:03 am 
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I was on methadone for 9 years. Everyone says you need to be below 30 mg's of 'done and wait 3 days b-4 getting dosed with Suboxone. EVERYTHING is gonna depend on your dr. Mine takes patients on or below 40mg's of methadone, while others I called wanted me down to 10mg's. I got onto it when I was @ 32mg's. My doctor did a urine test and came back in a couple minutes saying I still had a little bit of 'done in me, but still gave me 4mg's at his office, then told me to take 4 more mg's when I got home. Plus I walked out with a 7 day script. W/in one hour, I was feeling fine instead of constant w/drawals. I could never make it a full day on methadone w/out feeling sick by the end of the day, but because of the benzo I'm prescribed, I got no takehomes, so I can't split up my own dose. IMO, when you are detoxing, (I know you're not yet) you need a split dose which are hardly ever given out at methadone clinics. If I feel crummy at the end of the day on Sub, I just take a little more. I just dropped 8mg's, (from 24mg's to 16mg's in one day and feel fine. Today is the 4th day on this dose). Unless you have takehomes, the way they dispense methadone SUCKS. At least on Sub, I get a script for 2 weeks at a time now. No more driving in the snow.

So to sum it up, my last dose of methadone was on a Sunday morning @ 5a.m., and got my first Sub dose on Tuesday evening around 6 p.m., so that's 2 1/2 days, AND I took a Vicodin 7.5mg on Monday evening to help with the w/drawals of the methadone. My Sub induction went fine. Like I said though, it's gonna depend on your doctor. Some start people at 8mg's. My doctor explained to me that 30mg's of methadone is equal to 24mg's of Suboxone, so if you get a low dose, you'll feel it on the first couple days on Sub. Most likely the anxiety will be the worst. Do yourself a favor and get off methadone as fast as possible and get onto Sub, or just get off methadone however you have to. Plus with Suboxone, you get to speak to a REAL doctor who dispenses the med if you have any questions. Methadone councilors are useless. Trust me, I had 6 of them. I don't think they knew they could/can get info online. Plus, they just don't get it. I was late for work every week just so I could talk about the Red Sox or Celtics with mine for a half hour. Others, I knew more about them than they did about me. Real hard to keep a job when you're late every day because they open their doors late, but you have to get dosed or you're useless w/out it.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:52 am 
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Hey everyone,
i just wanted to say thanks for helping me with this. You know it does help now that i realize that i am not the only person who has really gotten into this mess with methadone. It just seemed so easy at the time..walk in and pay the fee and dose on methadone everyday..The clinic is like 10 minutes from my house so that made it pretty easy until I realized it was not helping my situation. Some people find it strange that methadone is my drug of choice..I dont really understand it and ppl always say (like my grandmother for example) that it is just a synthetic form of heroin but in AL heroin is not something you encounter so I dont know. My grandmother thinks I am some kind of freakshow bc I need some form of narcotic to function everday but she allows my 23 year old brother to do meth and everything else...It has always been that way like I was the golden child who was supposed to graduate from college and save myself or something lol..I guess she thinks since I am an addict i will end up not doing anything with my life but she can think whatever she wants, She does not even have to say it I can tell by the way she acts around me or looks at me when I come over there feeling bad. She doesnt want me or my brother to get help..She wants to hide the fact that we are addicts to everyone and pretend everything is okay. It really hurts my feelings that she thinks I am a failure or something. I am only 26...I guess she thinks when you are over a certain age you cant graduate from college or get a good job. I know I have some anger toward her and the way she feels but i cant talk to her. I have tried telling her I am an addict before that i need help and support but she just wanted to send me off to some fancy pants rehab for 3 months. My husband actually went there and he said it was like a vacation, he also used right after he got out and actually became worse. So i think maybe getting off methadone and trying suboxone will improve my life, If my grandmother doesnt understand then she just doesnt get it. I have to do this my own way and deal with it. So I am praying that this suboxone helps me. I feel like me taking methadone everyday just makes my problem worse..I have totally isolated myself from almost all my friends and family that do not use. We have a few good friends but it seems when you dont have any money or pills.. they cant be found just to hang out or go watch a movie..

Anyway, I know I am ranting right now but it is 6:30 am here in Alabama and I have been awake for most of the night. Yesterday I took 8mg of suboxone and about 20 minutes ago I took 4mg. I still feel really tense, hot/cold sweats, back and joint pain, stuffy nose and the suboxone gave me a headache. I keep telling myself that it takes more time to adjust to a new drug especially changing over from methadone but it is hard to stay positive. Hatmaker- I wish my doctor would have gave me more information regarding my dose and everything. he just said take two a day. He did ramble on for about an hour but everything was just so hard to remember I guess. Honestly, my appointment seems kind of like a dream..I can't really remember much of what he said. I do remember the nurse acted like a jerk when she did my drug screen. She seemed like she really didnt want to be wasting her time on me or anyone else who needed any kind of help. There were so many ppl that told me not to tell them I went to the methadone clinic and to lie to the doctor but I just told him the ttruth and everything so far has been okay. I still feel some of the w/d symptoms but this is my 3rd day without any methadone and I am alive so something has to be working...lol.. I am hopeful but I have alot of stuff to get done and its hard when you feel like this. My house is a wreck and most of my clothes are piled in the floor waiting to be washed so that just adds to the stress. I am going to take another 4mg in a bit and see how it goes..So far it is had been okay..not the feeling I had hoped for but I am just happy that this is my 3rd day methadone free and I havent relasped. I know the suboxone is helping so I will just see how it goes!

Thanks everyone for the input and advice. I do feel better after reading your thoughts and it is so greatly appreciated! :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:08 am 
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Thanks so much for updating us. I was actually thinking about you and wondering how you were doing.

From the way you describe you are still feeling, it's my personal, non-medical opinion that you need more suboxone. If it were me, I would take 8 mg twice a day and not fool around with a 4 mg dose. It just seems to me that you're still in withdrawals. (Again, I'll stress that I'm not a doctor though.) If you're not sure, check your pupils, that's always the telltale sign of opiate withdrawal.

As for your grandmother, I'm so sorry she doesn't understand and seems to be judging you. With any luck she will see a change in you and grow to support you. Sometimes, however, it's hard for us to change because the people around us may (unconsciously) not want us to change, even if it's for the better. Just stick to your guns and build up your own support system, including this forum. It's been a big part of my recovery and can be for you, too. You could also consider going to NA/AA meetings, if you think that would be a good fit for you. (It's not for everyone.)

I know you can do this. You are determined and now you have suboxone on your side. Sometimes with the transition from methadone to suboxone it can take a little longer to stabilize, so please, please, just be patient and give it time.

Please keep us updated. We're here for you.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:12 am 
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Brandy,

Good to hear from you, I was really starting to wonder if things were going OK, glad to hear you have taken your first few steps with Suboxone too. It will get better with time.

I have to agree with hatmaker that if I were you I would be taking 8mg of sub twice a day. It sure seems like you're experiencing withdrawal still and a little more sub will help with that. Just my personal opinion.

You had mentioned not having any friends who don't use, that's classic addict behavior. We isolate ourselves little by little until there is no one left, except those fairweather friends who are there the instant you have the goods. I know I did it and I'm sure many others on this forum have done it as well. Don't worry about it, you can always make new friends...it's easy.

If I could offer one more suggestion, it would probably be wise to see some kind of addiction counselor to help you identify your addictive behaviors/thinking. My sub doctor insisted I seek treatment, apparently it is supposed to be part of every Suboxone program. It helped me quite a bit to identify my 'stinking thinking' and continue moving forward through recovery. I'll admit I was not over the moon with the thought of going to get my head examined, but you will learn a lot of things about yourself that you were probably not aware of. The haze that comes with drug use prevents us from being able to see some things.

Bottom line...I'm just glad to hear from you and I'm hopeful the sub works as well for you as it did for me.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:46 am 
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Hi everyone! Glad to see your post! I actually think i am okay right now. I have been up most of the night but I feel okay. Not great but okay. hatmaker- I do agree with you that i need to be taking more when i do take the suboxone. I have been only taking 4mg at a time and this morning I planned on taking more but they just taste so bad. I dont know why but they just make me gag like I am going to vomit. i think it is mostly in my head tho bc I can take other nasty tasting meds with no prob if they are what I want at the time. Strange. I am going to take the other half of the pill in about an hour or so after I eat some breakfast. It seems I have to force myself to eat since I have been w/d from methadone. I also checked my pupils and they were not small but not really big either...

As far as the NA/AA meetings go I have been there but only bc the clinic forced me to go. I felt kinda weird when I was there bc once they found out I went to the clinic everyday they didnt consider me clean or sober but I feel taking my meds everyday like I am supposed to keeps me from going over the edge and doing something really stupid. Maybe this time it will be different for me since I kinda want to go..I actually mentioned that to my husband this morning and he didnt seem too keen on the idea but if I have to go alone it will be better for myself and my family than not to go at all. It is intimidating to walk in to a whole new crowd of ppl all alone tho. Another problem I am having and hate to mention it bc i feel bad thinking this way is a problem with my husband. We have been married 5 years and we have used for probably 3 1/2 of those years. I seem to be feeling better on the suboxone than him. He keeps complaining and being negative about it. I really dont think he wants to change over to suboxone. I can only hope it starts helping him. I guess we will see later today after he takes his meds. I just hope he doesnt get some methadone from his friend at work. I want this to work so bad for both of us but I can only work on myself right now. I cant take the stress of another person.

Anyway, Romeo, I agree that I should take it like I am supposed to and not break it up like I have been doing. I have a few friends I have had since I was in high school and they are all normal functioning adults for the most part but if they really knew what was going on in my little world they prob would shun me like some kind of outkast. They dont do anything but they have in the past...It's really a very judgemental crowd and they dont say "oh brandy let me help you or support you" it's more like "OMG Did you hear that she is doing drugs again? she is some kind of major crackhead..You better not hang out with her" lol..It's sad but true. I dont understand their behavior but whatever. They are not really my friends and I know that.. :( As far as treatment goes..I have had my fair share of psych doctors and such...I felt weird telling them stuff but overall it did help. If my insurance will help pay I am all for it but as of now it didnt pay for any of my doctor visit (the nurse told me they didnt even take insurance) or the meds which are about 600 dollars. I dony know why..I thought they told me all psych and treatment was 100 percent covered but I guess someone along the line was wrong. I am going to check tho bc I really dont have a spare 600 dollars laying around every month.

Well, So far I feel okay..again not good but okay..I am making it! :D


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:40 am 
Hi Brandy - glad to hear you're on your way with the Sub. In addition to what others said about taking the full 8mg at a time, I would also consider spitting out your saliva after you let the tablet dissolve under you tongue for about 20 min. It's my understanding that the naloxone dissolves into you saliva (while the bupe binds to your mucous membranes) and some people get headaches when they swallow it. I know spitting out the saliva has helped some people here who started out with headaches.
You seem to be really concerned about what the people in your life are saying/doing/thinking. I know its' hard, but try to keep the focus on yourself as much as you can. This is a big transition - so give yourself a break. Don't worry about the dirty laundry and all that stuff. It will eventually get done. Over time, if you stay on Sub and off the drugs, people will begin to see the change in you. It will take them a while to accept it, but there's nothing you can do about that right now. So, take good care of yourself. Hopefully you'll be feeling much better over the next few days as the methadone leaves your system completely and the Sub reaches a steady state.
We're all pulling for you - keep us posted.
Lilly


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I am having trouble with my laptop but after reading this. Iam going wait 24 hrs from now 12:09 ND GO back to my subs. Confess to my subs dr. on the 18th. my appt. I got percs from my reg dr who knows i'm on subs.(the clinic is all affiliated. can you believe it. I gave her a sob story about arthitis pain & boom 60 percs. I have been crying all day. I was doing so good but the cravings got bad. please pray for me & write to me I will check here & e-mail. thank you to all bless you queenie


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:29 pm 
queenie - sorry to hear about your setback. You're doing the right thing by getting back on the Sub tomorrow. A few of us here (myself included) who went on percocet after an injury or surgery felt it was a releif to get back on sub and feel normal again. Maybe in your case you thought the percs could "work" again like they used to. But I'm sure you found out that they don't work anymore and bring nothing but heartache. A lot of us addicts (again, me included) have to do it the hard way and see for ourselves what would happen if we went back. I'm glad you're still here and are going back into remission. I told my sub doc when I relapsed and he was very understanding. Maybe you will have to be proactive and have that other doc put in your file "no narcotics". I know it feels like being blacklisted, but it could be what it takes to keep you safe.
Hang in there, and keep us posted on how you're doing.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:50 am 
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Thank you for those kind words. I am crying now because I appreciate you. I am alone & allI have is my failing laptop. I will try hard to get back to normal. I am scared,''love queenie


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 Post subject: to all
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:54 am 
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thank you my friends. keep writing to me don't let me fall. please remember queenie. I am alone all day and scared. I still have some devil percs left and feel so helpless.when can I start subs? how? slowly? Will I get sick? I took 4 percs this a,m.

help. I don't want to call anyone that does not understand. it would make it worse.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:06 am 
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Queenie - When I had to have surgery and went back on full agonist for a few days, my sub doctor told me to just wait 12 hours before going back on the sub. So if you've only been on the percs for a few days, you should be fine waiting 12 hours before going back on sub. You shouldn't get sick.

Are the percs doing anything at all? I notice that you are still taking them. What are you getting out of it? The sub should be blocking it and you probably aren't even getting high off of it. Remember what your active addiction did to your life. Do you want to go back there? I hope you flush the rest of those percs and return to your sub treatment. Remember the consequences of your active addiction. I hope that is enough motivation to go back into addiction remission. We're here for you. I know you can do this.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

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 Post subject: you are right
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:47 am 
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Hatmaker, thank you so much! you are right. The percs were nothing but a waste of time & tears. I didn't feel any better and can't wait to get back on m subs. the last percs taken were this a.m. took about 5. When should I start subs & how many mgs?
love & thanks, queenie


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