It is currently Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:27 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 247 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ... 13  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:55 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
OMGosh I LOVE your last post!!! I know how you've been worried about your brain healing and whatnot and to me, that runners high is just another signal that your brain IS healing while you taper lower and lower.

The other part of all of this, as you alluded to, is that recovery involves mind, body and spirit. Say the "experts" were right in that your physical brain, because of the presence of an opiate, is not healing; well that still leaves you with mind and spirit that can be healing. 2 outta 3 ain't bad, right!! :wink:

So, at worst, you're looking at being able to heal or work on healing 2 out of 3. But in my opinion, while tapering, you would certainly be looking at 3 out of 3. I firmly believe the physical brain heals as you taper.

I think as long as you keep working on healing yourself in a mind, body and spiritual way, you'll be off to the races pretty soon here, rca!!

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:09 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 11:09 am
Posts: 256
Romeo wrote:
OMGosh I LOVE your last post!!! I know how you've been worried about your brain healing and whatnot and to me, that runners high is just another signal that your brain IS healing while you taper lower and lower.

The other part of all of this, as you alluded to, is that recovery involves mind, body and spirit. Say the "experts" were right in that your physical brain, because of the presence of an opiate, is not healing; well that still leaves you with mind and spirit that can be healing. 2 outta 3 ain't bad, right!! :wink:

So, at worst, you're looking at being able to heal or work on healing 2 out of 3. But in my opinion, while tapering, you would certainly be looking at 3 out of 3. I firmly believe the physical brain heals as you taper.

I think as long as you keep working on healing yourself in a mind, body and spiritual way, you'll be off to the races pretty soon here, rca!!

Thank you Romeo, your support has meant so much to me since the first day I joined this forum. Thank you, thank you, thank you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:19 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
There's another aspect of recovery I wanted to mention here while I'm thinking about it.

While on pain pills, I basically felt pretty amazing most of the time (as long as I didn't run out of pills). While on Suboxone, I felt pretty good most of the time, too. It was like I was operating beyond 100% most of the time....until things got out of control towards the end, that is.

When I quit Suboxone, I kept waiting to feel "normal" and it took me a long time to figure out that I'd never feel what I thought normal was because for me, normal was being high. The extra energy and the buzz that opiates brought me were something I was going to have to learn to live without.....and that was hard to do.

The good news is, through exercise, PMA (positive mental attitude), meditation and a few other recovery techniques, I've pretty much been able to match a lot of those feelings I had while on opiates. It takes a good amount of work and it's more difficult than popping a pill, but at least my current methods are sustainable.

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:49 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 11:09 am
Posts: 256
Romeo wrote:

The good news is, through exercise, PMA (positive mental attitude), meditation and a few other recovery techniques, I've pretty much been able to match a lot of those feelings I had while on opiates. It takes a good amount of work and it's more difficult than popping a pill, but at least my current methods are sustainable.


Very good news Romeo! I want to share a book that is helping me with "motivation" to make those healthy choices that I know will sustain me later. It was recommended to me by my father who is a physician and highly disciplined individual. Still going strong both physically and mentally well into his 70s. It is called "The Willpower Instinct" by Kelly McGonigal, Ph.D.
I actually read it some months ago, could have even been before I started my taper. I needed to let the theories kind of "stew" in my mind for awhile, but I think now that it makes good sense, and is helping me make healthier choices and stick with them. Just posting it as it might be helpful to others as well. Pay it forward!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:52 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 4:42 pm
Posts: 534
Location: currently residing in cyberspace
no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
Karen123 wrote:
Hi all, I wanted to check in. I decided last week to not read for a couple days to "center" myself on a schedule I feel comfortable without challenging myself too fast competing with others.

I am so encouraged by Mama and RCA - Mama, my brain tells me I cannot relate to your situation as much since you mentioned you were not on Sub for very long...this is NOT saying this is right to do that (as detoxing off this drug can be brutal either way), just being honest where my head takes me sometimes. BUT, RCA (hopefully I have your screen name right), I do relate too you as your time on this drug, age, being a woman, kids is very close to me. This eliminates me making more excuses for me whining too much on any given dose/experience. You are too close to my situation to do that. LOL :) I do believe we all help eachother either way. Just being honest to where my head is.

I was feeling last week "challenged" to keep up with RCA. Since I tried to keep up with Boop and DB and that failed (they sail on but I crashed and burned) I got myself discouraged but instead of wanting to give up, feel stronger in my determination now. I believe GOD, prayer, meetings and more prayer and bible reading has helped me. God is NOT zapping me to feel better (that is for sure) but He is teaching me to "endure" more and instead of my hope going down, has gone up. When I read RCA's struggle and progress I feel we are so close it is "empowering" to me to keep the pace with her.

Anyway, with all that said, I get to a place I just want to get off reading and living more to keep my self from focusing too much on my withdrawal. As where I stand now, I too am at .375 (have been here since Friday of last week or whatever that day I said I would be at .375 too). I have to confess, I was also afraid to peek the last few days in fear RCA may get ahead and be at .25 by Monday so I chose not to look as I was doing good at .375 so wanted a few days to stabelize. I tried one day to go on just .25 but started to feel the head fog early evening (late afternoon) and decided to give it more time before I go that route.

For me, .375 is amazing. In may ways I feel like I did at 1mg??

With this said, I have a question for Romeo and others that have more experience. I lingered at 1mg for a couple years and every time I tried to reduce I would feel so awful would crash and go back up every time. This happened enough to scare me from reducing period (had thoughts to just stay at 1mg forever, etc) - hense why it took so long to get moving downward in my doses. As is the case with me, I keep coming back to reality and want my body/brain to be completely drug free and it also helped to see old posters where used to be where I was and now off, challenge me again to taper down.

I have a couple concerns: I can see why people say despite how low they go on this drug it seems to still have such strong consequences once you jump - if not right away, eventually everyone seems to relate to the symptoms whether they taper or jump (some people have stronger symptoms sooner but all in all they all say it is still "eventful" when they jump. I have heard this from people micro tapering even. So much so, I read one thread where the argument was it may be harder initially when you jump from let's say 1mg to tapering down further but after the first week or so, it equals out whether you taper or not because it still has similar affect once you stop eventually.

I am grateful and elated to be at .375 but sometimes I think if I can feel buzzed then is it possible this drug is as powerful at this dose as it was at 1mg and therefore no matter what I do the jump will still be that much powerful as well - hense why so many people say it doesnt matter. The only difference to people that jump is they prepare themselves to deal with it and get it over with sooner.

Do you think this is the case or can it be helping me to continue to taper. I dont mean to be ungrateful to feel good at .375 but it does make me think this. When you can feel "buzzed" (to me) means that I am buzzed. Then that equates to me having to deal with the process of whatever is making me buzzed leave eventually hense the withdrawal.

This may not make sense but was hoping someone may have a theory on this? Maybe my body is just adjusting but the withdrawal will still be better if I continue to taper.
Its true God is blessing me either way. I will still take feeling great at this dose as a blessing.

:)

RCA, remember I went a good 8 days when I got sick awhile back with no sub but had intermitant T3's during that time for my throat. I skipped days too which all that pain (from sickness and no sub) did prepare me more for today.

I do believe everyone is unique but one thing I absoutely believe is God is there for us all and will get us through this if we trust Him.


Bupe is 40x stronger than morphine, insofar as binding to opiate receptors. It's only a partial agonist though, so weaker stuff can actually be better at killing pain, producing a buzzy feeling, etc, but makes it a true blue mofo to withdraw from. Although the opiate-naive, and occasionally moderate to long time users will feel a bit buzzy from it. I've even heard anecdotes that a buzzy feeling is more common at 2mg and below doses, as bupe, when metabolized, produces a metabolite called norbuprenorphine, that is a full agonist on many receptors, and at lower bupe doses, norbuprenorphine has less competition from buprenorphine to attach to receptors. Hence the saying that "less is more" that some recreational users of bupe describe.

Quote:
Norbuprenorphine is the primary active metabolite of buprenorphine. Norbuprenorphine acts as a μ-opioid, δ-opioid, and nociceptin receptor full agonist, as well as a κ-opioid receptor partial agonist. Norbuprenorphine crosses the blood-brain-barrier similarly to buprenorphine and likely contributes to its effects. It was observed that Intravenous administration of norbuprenorphine at 1 to 3 mg/kg decreased respiratory rate, whereas buprenorphine had no effect up to 3 mg/kg in rats.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norbuprenorphine


***


I did some more reading on this site after searching and some old threads from other categorical forums here, from years ago, came up about this. Basically, it seems that one of the official lines for addiction treatment, is that the minimum sub dose should be 4 mg, with speculation that it is to prevent norbuprenorphine from having some full agonist effects, thus leading to the euphoria and drug craving cycle.

Basically, I just typed "less is more" into the search engine here and got lots of hits. (see: http://goo.gl/3Rzl7K). Some of the debates were very heated, with confusion about what "ceiling" dose meant vs minimum dose. Most of my reading about 2 mg or less being the line for producing more euphoria is anecdotal stuff from other forums. Maybe the official "4 mg minimum dose" prescribing line, is to play it extra safe (due to individual differences in metabolism and such) in regards to norbuprenorphine's effects?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:45 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 4:42 pm
Posts: 534
Location: currently residing in cyberspace
rca1004 wrote:
Romeo wrote:

The good news is, through exercise, PMA (positive mental attitude), meditation and a few other recovery techniques, I've pretty much been able to match a lot of those feelings I had while on opiates. It takes a good amount of work and it's more difficult than popping a pill, but at least my current methods are sustainable.


Very good news Romeo! I want to share a book that is helping me with "motivation" to make those healthy choices that I know will sustain me later. It was recommended to me by my father who is a physician and highly disciplined individual. Still going strong both physically and mentally well into his 70s. It is called "The Willpower Instinct" by Kelly McGonigal, Ph.D.
I actually read it some months ago, could have even been before I started my taper. I needed to let the theories kind of "stew" in my mind for awhile, but I think now that it makes good sense, and is helping me make healthier choices and stick with them. Just posting it as it might be helpful to others as well. Pay it forward!


That title sounds interesting. On the face of it, the title seems to contradict the 12 Step program's discouragement of that kind of thinking, which emphasize one's need to accept they are "powerless" (not just over a drug of choice, but "people, places and things"). But getting in touch with one's basic survival instinct, maybe through reasoning that "I don't need this to drug to survive, even though it feels like I do, and in fact, it will very likely hasten my demise", seems like it can be very helpful for some.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:36 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:00 pm
Posts: 80
rca1004 wrote:
K, something kinda cool just happened...went for my morning run/ jog, and at around mile 3 of 11-12 minute miles it happened- that "whoosh" of the "runner's high" I have been waiting to experience again!!! I was also blasting tunes, and when the "whoosh" happened was listening to this inspiring tune:
http://youtu.be/Le-3MIBxQTw

And was also mentally 'counting my blessings", (trying to cover all endorphin bases-lol)

So, in reference to my previous morning post, I am definitely prescribing to the "our brains DO start healing camp"! Maybe they need a little help though, aka, good nutrition, exercise, music, supplements (I have been consistent for about a month with a multi, extra B-12, Pedialyte, L-Tyrosine) and above all, trusting God, and leaning into love.

I'm sure I'll have my share of ups and downs as I continue to taper and jump, but today I know for sure, once I jump, I never have to use drugs again.

Note to self: Remember there are healthy ways to feel high!


One of the best posts I have read on here since joining!!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:01 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 11:09 am
Posts: 256
no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
rca1004 wrote:
Romeo wrote:

The good news is, through exercise, PMA (positive mental attitude), meditation and a few other recovery techniques, I've pretty much been able to match a lot of those feelings I had while on opiates. It takes a good amount of work and it's more difficult than popping a pill, but at least my current methods are sustainable.


Very good news Romeo! I want to share a book that is helping me with "motivation" to make those healthy choices that I know will sustain me later. It was recommended to me by my father who is a physician and highly disciplined individual. Still going strong both physically and mentally well into his 70s. It is called "The Willpower Instinct" by Kelly McGonigal, Ph.D.
I actually read it some months ago, could have even been before I started my taper. I needed to let the theories kind of "stew" in my mind for awhile, but I think now that it makes good sense, and is helping me make healthier choices and stick with them. Just posting it as it might be helpful to others as well. Pay it forward!


That title sounds interesting. On the face of it, the title seems to contradict the 12 Step program's discouragement of that kind of thinking, which emphasize one's need to accept they are "powerless" (not just over a drug of choice, but "people, places and things"). But getting in touch with one's basic survival instinct, maybe through reasoning that "I don't need this to drug to survive, even though it feels like I do, and in fact, it will very likely hasten my demise", seems like it can be very helpful for some.


I think the tenets of this book can be used to supplement, not contradict the 12 Step program (I have also read quite a bit of AA/NA literature). This book addresses the "mind" aspect of what Romeo pointed out are the three pillars of recovery. It supplies solid, tested strategies that help one draw on one's "instinctual" supply of willpower. Some of the strategies are spiritual,(i.e. meditation.) There is also plenty of anecdotal evidence.
The subtitle is: How Self-Control Works, Why It Matters, and What You Can Do to Get More of It. Here's the dedication:
This book is dedicated to everyone who has ever struggled with temptation, addiction, procrastination, or motivation- which is all of us.

I like this quote it begins with, and I think?? you will to.
Quote:
The intelligent want self-control, children want candy. - Rumi


The book is research based, and again, I think it can supplement, not contradict a solid 12 step or similar recovery program. Just my opinion. Knowledge is power, right?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:45 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 11:09 am
Posts: 256
Morning Update- Mid-Week 2 at .375mgs

HAPPY FATHER'S DAY TO ANY DADDIES READING THIS!! :D

("Not"subuser- thanks for the comment!! Have you posted on"Bupe in the Rearview Mirror" yet? I'll check daily now until I see it!)

Slightly more rested this morning. I did wait until after 6pm to take the .125mg dose, but still woke up a few times, and still slightly restless, I think I got a solid 4 hours. Managed a 2 HOUR nap yesterday afternoon, so over all, feeling better today. Sleep deprivation is only symptom right now, but it is improving! :D Just gonna "hang" here for awhile, getting comfy, hopefully sleep will continue to improve, as I continue to gather courage, "will-power" (see previous post), and "Higher Power"!

Thanks to JI & Romeo for the feedback on "Do our brain's start healing whilst tapering" question I posted yesterday (page 7). Boop promised to also chime in today (thanks!). I think this is an important question to get feedback about because when I learned that the "experts" say, "no, not till ALL opiate is out of your system", it was very, very discouraging news. I don't believe it, and it seems neither do JI or Romeo. I just don't want anyone else to feel as discouraged as I did when I got that news. Maybe I should start a new thread with that question, then maybe there would be more traffic / responses, and also if anyone else is "searching" for answers about brain healing it might help??

Again today I invite anyone who has an "opinion" or some information on that topic to post here. I am really curious to know if the "experts" are full of shit on this point or not. (I am saying "yes")

My "thought for the day" is the Rumi quote in previous post. Hope everyone reading this has a good day, especially the Dads!!


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:44 am 
Offline
One Month or More
One Month or More

Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 8:58 am
Posts: 39
Hey, I would be interested to hear more answers on your topic if we heal while tapering too. I think that ties in to my real life experience which brought out my concern as to why I feel buzzed at .25mg (my morning dose) - I think my initial concern was more in the fact that maybe Im not really as low as I want to believe. That this drug just hits you after a certain level and affects you as if you were higher dose as you taper down. That may coincide with the theory our brains dont heal while any opiate is still in my brain.

I know when I was struggling early May and had 8 days no sub, I was hoping to have some form of healing for all the misery I was dealing with. Prior to me caving and taking a sliver, I actually went to the doctor 3x as I thought the infection I had earlier that week in my throat went to my kidneys or liver as my back was hurting and I had NO appetite.. My lower back felt tight, I was incredibly weak and dehydrated and nauseous. When I finally broke down on day 8 and took small amount of sub, I actually was more concerned at that point what I was experiencing was something new and sub would not help (basically thought with all the time away from sub (8 days) I may be beyond its help at this point since it was out of my system). BUT, to the contrary, one sliver..all my pains went away. ...Everything I tried before to get "some relief" or "healing" didnt seem to phase me. I tried Advil, hot baths (so much so my skin developed a rash for all the hot baths)..- I HATE baths now. :)

I sometimes think my brain just was holding off for that opiate. I wanted to believe that atleast the time I was in so much misery - something was healing.

However, since now Im managing on a lesser dose than I was before I have also had the exercise high, etc. But it still scares me sometimes to think when I feel a buzz or maybe a better way to describe it now (its not so much a buzz now) is "relief" when I take my dose that I am kidding myself to think that stopping this will ever be "smooth". Anything that wakes my brain up the way Sub does, eventually will put it to sleep again. I just wish the "recovery" would be quicker. So my strategy is also to up the exercise to increase (or force) endorphins beyond the sub dose Im taking.

RCA, you mentioned (I think it was you) a bathtub analogy - something about the fill exceeds the drain (or something like that). Im trying to make the "fill" natural highs..exercise, good nutrition, GOD and more GOD (:). To exceed my dose. I dont think I was doing this before even though I hike 3miles a day. Now Im doing more and getting my heart beat up more. Of course, make sure that "drain" is still active by reducing my dose, otherwise the drainage and fill will "level" again.

BTW, I do attend AA/NA meetings and the "powerless" is a huge foundation to recovery. The premise is addiction of any kind is not something you can control with your mind or will power. You essentially give your "will" and "mind" to God. That is different than mind over matter. You are trusting His mind (atleast that is how I interpret it) and His will. The meetings help because the people in the meetings talk about daily life issues and how they cope using tools outside of drugs - this essentially is God's way to help us - they call it the 'we' program, not "i". Of course, I believe God has to use the "i" at some point as we have individual choices, but the choice is to trust His power, not ours. We make the decision to turn our will and mind over to God.

That probably doenst help much to the topic but whatever. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:41 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 4:42 pm
Posts: 534
Location: currently residing in cyberspace
rca1004 wrote:


I think the tenets of this book can be used to supplement, not contradict the 12 Step program (I have also read quite a bit of AA/NA literature). This book addresses the "mind" aspect of what Romeo pointed out are the three pillars of recovery. It supplies solid, tested strategies that help one draw on one's "instinctual" supply of willpower. Some of the strategies are spiritual,(i.e. meditation.) There is also plenty of anecdotal evidence.
The subtitle is: How Self-Control Works, Why It Matters, and What You Can Do to Get More of It. Here's the dedication:
This book is dedicated to everyone who has ever struggled with temptation, addiction, procrastination, or motivation- which is all of us.

I like this quote it begins with, and I think?? you will to.
Quote:
The intelligent want self-control, children want candy. - Rumi


The book is research based, and again, I think it can supplement, not contradict a solid 12 step or similar recovery program. Just my opinion. Knowledge is power, right?


If the Catholic Church can go along with the theory of evolution, and reconcile it somehow with their biblical dogma and doctrines, I think one can reconcile willpower, with the 12 Step program somehow, if one wants? Perhaps the HP gave us the capacity to tap into "willpower" for a good reason?

Anyway, the Rumi quote sold me. I'll def be looking for it on Amazon. I have a book of his translated poetry. He was considered somewhat of a heretic in his day, amongst those of the Muslim faith. Here is one of my favorite poems by him:

Quote:
In this battle we do not hold
a shield in front of us

we turn in sama, we do not hear
the flute or the tambourine.

Underneath these feet we become
nazar, the guide's glance, ashes,

wanderers: as the moon diminishes
every day and then it's gone, to

come back changed. Send for the
planet Venus to play here! Flute,

drum and strings are not enough.
No. Who but these musicians could

stand the heat that melts the sun?

------
~Rumi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:48 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 4:42 pm
Posts: 534
Location: currently residing in cyberspace
rca1004 wrote:

Thanks to JI & Romeo for the feedback on "Do our brain's start healing whilst tapering" question I posted yesterday (page 7). Boop promised to also chime in today (thanks!). I think this is an important question to get feedback about because when I learned that the "experts" say, "no, not till ALL opiate is out of your system", it was very, very discouraging news. I don't believe it, and it seems neither do JI or Romeo. I just don't want anyone else to feel as discouraged as I did when I got that news. Maybe I should start a new thread with that question, then maybe there would be more traffic / responses, and also if anyone else is "searching" for answers about brain healing it might help??

Again today I invite anyone who has an "opinion" or some information on that topic to post here. I am really curious to know if the "experts" are full of shit on this point or not. (I am saying "yes")



Chiming in. I think its very likely, that the brain can start healing while tapering. There is enough anecdotal evidence IMO, to support the idea of the brain healing before finally jumping. Primarily amongst those who exercise, eat properly, and use targeted food supplementation while tapering, as they always seem to have an easier time of it with WDs, when they finally jump for good.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:03 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:47 pm
Posts: 747
Must be true cuz I ate like shit, barely exercised and I
SUFFERED! BWAHAHAHA


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:06 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 11:09 am
Posts: 256
trainer14 wrote:
Must be true cuz I ate like shit, barely exercised and I
SUFFERED! BWAHAHAHA

Lol!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:17 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:54 am
Posts: 215
Location: NY
That made me laugh trainer.. :lol:

_________________
Fear is Temporary, Regret is Forever


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:44 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:47 pm
Posts: 747
Think its true. I can chuckle at it now. Last week.....not so much!

Hahaha


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:59 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 4:42 pm
Posts: 534
Location: currently residing in cyberspace
trainer14 wrote:
Must be true cuz I ate like shit, barely exercised and I
SUFFERED! BWAHAHAHA


Your job seems pretty physically demanding though, probably on your feet a lot, and, if you specialize in training big dogs like German Shepherds, that's gotta take some strength at times. I'm still impressed you made it in as often as you did, after jumping from where you did. I baby sat a pit bull once while it's owner was gone, and even though I'm not a 90 pound weakling, it was like playing tug-o-war with a tank sometimes, when it tried to take liberties with me on walks (I didn't have the heart to put on its choker chain, so just went with collar). Only thing that saved me was that I seem to have a naturally commanding voice with animals--I can bark with the best of 'em! :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:06 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 11:09 am
Posts: 256
no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:

Chiming in. I think its very likely, that the brain can start healing while tapering. There is enough anecdotal evidence IMO, to support the idea of the brain healing before finally jumping. Primarily amongst those who exercise, eat properly, and use targeted food supplementation while tapering, as they always seem to have an easier time of it with WDs, when they finally jump for good.


Boop- Your "chiming in" comment made me smile. You are clever- I like that!

Well folks, although this little "debate" on brain healing is far from "scientific research", I would have to say that boop's comment sums up the "non-expert" but TRUE experts' (aka those who have "been through it") opinion that our brains can and do heal while tapering. I'd really like to make these "opinions" available "somehow"? on this forum to help other's who are as scared as I was about brain healing and long term depression. I myself have been borderline suicidal (many years ago, during a period of great loss), and I believe when "hope" is gone (i.e until you are TOTALLY off opiates, your brain is not healing AT ALL, and you are going to feel like shit for a long long time), it could give someone just that little extra push they need to actually go over the edge. I'm so glad I had the "non experts" to assure me that my brain was and is healing.
(and thank you Trainer for anecdotal evidence on the other side of the coin- helpful, and funny!! lol, Glad you can laugh about it now! But the fact that you can laugh, so soon after such a major jump tells me that even your brain (lol) did some pretty quick healing!)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:34 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 11:09 am
Posts: 256
Boop said:

"If the Catholic Church can go along with the theory of evolution, and reconcile it somehow with their biblical dogma and doctrines, I think one can reconcile willpower, with the 12 Step program somehow, if one wants? Perhaps the HP gave us the capacity to tap into "willpower" for a good reason?

Anyway, the Rumi quote sold me. I'll def be looking for it on Amazon"

Interesting analogy, and I see your point. Glad you are going to check out the book; Yes, I believe the "will power" we have comes from our "Higher Power". I think maybe the thought that will power and 12 step programs are not compatible, is based on how "will power" is defined. So, I will be interested to know your thoughts after you have read the book. It is fun doing a little "mental sparing" with you boop, and glad you also like Rumi- beautiful poem, thank you for sharing it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:46 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 11:09 am
Posts: 256
Karen123 wrote:

RCA, you mentioned (I think it was you) a bathtub analogy - something about the fill exceeds the drain (or something like that). Im trying to make the "fill" natural highs..exercise, good nutrition, GOD and more GOD (:). To exceed my dose. I dont think I was doing this before even though I hike 3miles a day. Now Im doing more and getting my heart beat up more. Of course, make sure that "drain" is still active by reducing my dose, otherwise the drainage and fill will "level" again......

That probably doenst help much to the topic but whatever. :)


Hey Karen, first, THANK you for your post, and it DOES help! I think maybe you and I have some of the same "self esteem" issues :) . I wish I were the one who thought up the "bathtub" analogy because it is a good one. I have also heard that, but can't remember where (maybe Mama79?) Anyway, glad to hear you are planning on or already getting your heart rate up daily. So far from my own experience, and from what I've read on this forum, this truly does help, especially with the "depression" part we (and I believe most people) fear. Thanks again for posting- glad to hear you so up beat!! Sounds like your brain is healing! :D


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 247 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ... 13  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group