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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:42 pm 
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Karen123 wrote:
BTW, my apologies for my long rant post yesterday, this is RCA's thread and didnt mean to talk about me.

Boop, thank you so much for your explanation..Wow, you are extremely insightful? I didnt understand completely your reply but I think the jest is - the lower the dose that other drug has a chance to cover more receptors than at higher doses and as a result gives you a more full agonist reaction (hense the buzz). I get confused how I can have withdrawals at higher doses then when I finally get lower and stabilize get buzzed from the lower dose? this drug is so mysterious and weird.


It sure is mysterious in many ways, but perhaps more will be revealed. I wonder if the mad scientists at Reckitt (See attachment. They also had patent on Suboxone as well as original Buprenorphine patent) who created and studied it have some highly classified info that maybe the FDA isn't even aware of?

Quote:
Attachment:
Screen Shot 2014-06-12 at 3.29.28 PM.png
Screen Shot 2014-06-12 at 3.29.28 PM.png [ 60.86 KiB | Viewed 341 times ]



source: http://www.naabt.org/documents/buprenorphine_patent.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:51 pm 
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Patented in 1969, baby: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0mRfECsHrc


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:58 pm 
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There are times when I have gotten a buzz off of Sub, especially when upping my dose, but it would only happen once in a blue moon. It was never explained to me but perhaps boops post explains it.

I am so very proud of you guys on here who are getting so low on your doses...amazing! Great job!
I, too, choose to subscribe to the theory that the lower I go (and the longer I stay there), the more painless the final jump will be. I have read some inspiring stories of long-term sub users having a not-so-bad time of it but their advice was to absolutely go as low as you can and stay there until you are completely comfortable and normal feeling. I think that the most discomfort comes from tapering too fast. From all of my research into the tapering of Suboxone, it seems like there is no way around it. Sometimes, I wish I had the guts, courage, and time to just make the jump from 1 mg and be done with it. More than the physical withdrawal; I am terrified of the mental withdrawal...anxiety and/or depression.

Of course, everyone seems to react differently and therefore, I also believe that there is no "set in concrete" taper. You must go at your own pace. Whatever works for you is what will get you there!

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1.1.15 - 8 mg/day
1.24.15 - 6 mgs/day
3.6.15 - 4 mg/day
3.22.15 - 3 mg/day
5.3.15- 2 mg/day
5.17.15 - 1.5 mg/day
5.29.15 - 1 mg/day
6.16.15 - .8 mg/day
12.18.15 - 4 mg
12.28.15 - 2 mg
1.10.16 - 1.5 mg
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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:14 pm 
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As far as the clonodine controversy, I think the trick is getting one's blood pressure into the low end of the clinically normal range. So one's blood pressure is not too high, but also not so low, one feels like they are walking thru mud up to their neck (except maybe at bedtime, slightly below normal range, to help with sleep). Trial and error can work alone, but best bet would be to buy a gadget at the pharmacy, that monitors blood pressure, for making dosage adjustments.


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:47 am 
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ClearAqua wrote:

More than the physical withdrawal; I am terrified of the mental withdrawal...anxiety and/or depression.



I feel you 100% ClearAqua!! That is my "big fear". I lived there for awhile (depression) if you can call that "living", and am scared shitless to go there again. I guess I might be able to survive another little visit if I know for sure I will not be hanging there too, too long.


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:49 am 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
As far as the clonodine controversy, I think the trick is getting one's blood pressure into the low end of the clinically normal range. So one's blood pressure is not too high, but also not so low, one feels like they are walking thru mud up to their neck (except maybe at bedtime, slightly below normal range, to help with sleep). Trial and error can work alone, but best bet would be to buy a gadget at the pharmacy, that monitors blood pressure, for making dosage adjustments.

Good solid advice I think. Thanks again boop!


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:52 am 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:


Hmmm......when I was 4 years old my future was being determined by the Mad Scientists!! Shame on them for picking on a little 4 year old girl!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:58 am 
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h0pe wrote:
Be careful with xanax!! Im 5 months off and still have sx !! Just my two cents :o

Thanks h0pe, I will!


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:02 am 
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johnny_ikon wrote:
Ya, I won't be touching Seroquil ever again (I probably should just chuck it like you suggest).


So.......what are you waiting for? If I were you, I'd get up right this second and dump it....or is your addict brain telling you "You just might 'need' it someday..."
You already said you won't be touching it, so dump it, NOW!
(Sorry to be so bossy- just tryin' to help!)


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:20 am 
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Day 8 at .375mgs

Embarking on Day 9.
I think (hope) day 8 was the turning point as far as stabilizing at this dose. Here is why I think that.
1. I actually slept 5-6 hours last night as apposed to 3-4. I still woke up, but a clonidine was able to help me get some more zzzzzz's. Earlier the clonidine helped symptoms, but not sleep.
2. My "cold" symptoms of yesterday are mostly gone. Still a tiny bit teary, but nothing to speak of really.
3. After my coffee, catching up on the forum a bit, etc, I was washing my face, about 7:30am, getting ready for the day, then just 'remembered' I hadn't dosed yet, and my last dose was about 4pm yesterday (.125mgs)
4. I have still not dosed today, and don't feel like I "have" to. I am just fine.(8:30am)
5. I have more energy today, but this most likely is also because I got more sleep.

SO, fingers crossed, today will remain easier than the last few days. What does not kill us makes us stronger! Watch out world!!! "SuperMom" is gathering strength by the second! :)

"Looking through the eyes of the divine nature you see the essence within the manifestation, the creator within the creation, and it is a wonderful, wonderful world", Peace Pilgrim

Please know that you are wonderfully created for a purpose today, that we are all connected, and that we are loved.
rca


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:56 am 
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Thnx for the post, very helpful & inspiring. I plan to go from .5 to .375 this w/e (instead of going straight to .25)..

I didn't take a Clonadine last night and ended up having my first toss-n-turn no-sleep night since starting my taper. But I feel great both physically & mentally this morning. Right now I could give a rat's arse about what tomorrow's going to be like, so far today is just fine.

It's good to see someone out in front of me on the curve rca, keep it up & have a fantastic day.

-- JI

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-- Rumi, Sufi poet and teacher


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:04 am 
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PS; good advice on the seroquil but honestly wasn't keeping it in my back pocket for me (I truly hate the stuff).

I thought it might be useful for someone else some day, but that's prolly a bad idea. OK, mom, I'll dump it when I get home tonite :mrgreen:

-- JI

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"Past and future veil God from our sight; burn both of them with fire."
-- Rumi, Sufi poet and teacher


Last edited by johnny_ikon on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:04 am 
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Hey, good for you RCA on having a good morning and Boop you continue to inspire me with your progress and "wisdom". I also wanted to chime in on Aqua's comment about the mental vs physical - she/he is more "scared" of the mental (sorry Aqua, can't remember if you are a woman or man). I guess I can say that is my concern too. When I was going through a couple "cold turkey" days early May which is what started my micro taper (I got sick and decided to try no sub for awhile), I noticed a significant "head fog" and almost potent "down feeling". Not only did I feel weak (which probably was due to coming off no food for several days due to a throat infection plus over doing the Clonidine eventually), it was quite scary the "heavy, dark head" that was associated with everything. I am normally NOT a depressed person - atleast not like that. Quite noticeable. UGH.

What helps me now is understanding that the depression is a symptom of the withdrawal and more importantly a symptom of your brain "adjusting" to the sub being reduced or gone. Our brain's need to go through this process to regain life again - try to see it as a good thing and part of your healing. (it will get better the more it heals and your brain will regain clarity and strength eventually....).

But I hear ya that can be scary.

I have found reading the Bible and a great devotional called "Jesus Calls" as well as another great book "Utmost for His Highest" is really making a difference for me. Having said that, I have been making changes. I have been attending meetings, "giving back", getting out more, upping my exercise - and praying (talking to God - asking for wisdom to keep my mind on Him, not the drug, withdrawals and fear) and most importantly asking for the willingness to live His will and NOT DOUBT. I have attacked the fears and troubles of withdrawal (or whatever you see as a "challenge") as "count it all joy" instead of the opposite. Result: Im no longer depressed and I have more energy than I did at higher doses.

I am still taking sub though (down to .312) but I believe God is truly helping me through and see a light now (where as before I was seriously considering I may be one of the those people that will be on this forever).


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:15 am 
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johnny_ikon wrote:
PS;
I thought it might be useful for someone else some day, but that's prolly a bad idea. OK, mom, I'll dump it when I get home tonite :mrgreen:

-- JI


Good boy! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:19 am 
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Karen123 wrote:


I am still taking sub though (down to .312) but I believe God is truly helping me through and see a light now (where as before I was seriously considering I may be one of the those people that will be on this forever).


Wow, .312!! Great job Karen, and I love to hear about all the heathy choices you are making. Every little bit helps, right? Now you are ahead of me!! You go girl! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:53 am 
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Brief morning "update", since it appears I have rounded the bend of this most recent drop I'm going to stop counting the days since I dropped, and focus on gathering courage for my next drop to .25mgs. The only wdls symptom I have this morning is a bit of a crawly skin, restless body syndrome. Sleep was minimal again, but I did get 4 hours I think. It's the 3 or less hours a night nights that really f me up. But as we know, being sleepy never killed anyone, however drugs certainly have!
Note to self: Do NOT take second dose before 6pm so you can sleep better tonight!

DO OUR BRAINS NOT HEAL AT ALL UNTIL ALL OPIATES ARE OUT OF OUR SYSTEMS??
Also, I want to open the debate up on whether or not our brains start healing (i.e. produce natural endorphins again, receptors receiving these endorphins) during the tapering process. When I had a "down" weekend a few weeks back, I started getting really worried and scared about long term depression and asked a few people on this forum for their opinions. As I understand it, the "professional" opinion is that our brains do NOT begin to heal until ALL the opiate is out of the system. Now, in my previously depressed state, when I heard THAT it REALLY freaked me out. Then I got some advice and opinions from some non-professionals (Thank you Romeo, et. al.), who have actually experienced opiate wdls. (it is debatable as to which set are the true professionals, huh?) Those people I talked to believe our brains DO begin to heal as we taper. If our brains don't start to heal "at all", how do you explain some people going through very light wdls after slow tapers? From what I have read on this forum, especially those who exercise vigorously manage to "escape" subs rather painlessly. This subject interests me because the mental depression is the scariest part of this process (for me), and actually the reason I started medicating myself in the first place- not to get high (honestly!) but to 'self medicate' and ward off depression and anxiety (stupid choice of med, I know). Since I am so TERRIFIED of the depression, I have been working out pretty vigorously daily (but this is a habit I have had most of my adult life). I've just upped the cardio a bit during this last month, and personally, I think it is helping my mood a ton. SO my question is, if my brain hasn't healed AT ALL, how is this possible?? Whatcha think, people? (Boop, I at least expect to hear from you on this one! :wink: )


Last edited by rca1004 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:16 am, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:20 am 
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rca1004 wrote:
johnny_ikon wrote:
PS;
I thought it might be useful for someone else some day, but that's prolly a bad idea. OK, mom, I'll dump it when I get home tonite :mrgreen:

-- JI


Good boy! :D


It's done, the Seroquil is history. Thnx for the push.

-- JI

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"Past and future veil God from our sight; burn both of them with fire."
-- Rumi, Sufi poet and teacher


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:30 am 
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I thought the whole point of Suboxone was that it doesn't fill all receptors, like methadone or heroin, so that our brains can start working again normally, especially as our doses get lower.

I went thru a couple weeks -- from about 1.5 to .1 mg -- where my mood was constantly terrible. But mostly it's been pretty good during the past week, and I've felt some real joy (now @ .5 mg). I think a lot of the rockiness was about just getting use to being able to feel feelings again, and grieving a lot of cr*p that lay buried under all those d*mn drugs I was pouring into myself. I've seen other threads where people started feeling happiness soon after coming off Suboxone.

-- JI

rca1004 wrote:
johnny_ikon wrote:
PS;
If thought it might be useful for someone else some day, but that's prolly a bad idea. OK, mom, I'll dump it when I get home tonite :mrgreen:

-- JI


Good boy! :D


It's done btw, the Seroquil is history. Thnx for the push.

_________________
"Past and future veil God from our sight; burn both of them with fire."
-- Rumi, Sufi poet and teacher


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:01 am 
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johnny_ikon wrote:
rca1004 wrote:
johnny_ikon wrote:
PS;
I thought it might be useful for someone else some day, but that's prolly a bad idea. OK, mom, I'll dump it when I get home tonite :mrgreen:

-- JI


Good boy! :D


It's done, the Seroquil is history. Thnx for the push.

-- JI


My pleasure to push you anytime! I'll count on you when I also need a "push". :) Hope you have a good Saturday!!


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 Post subject: Re: Need support
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:24 am 
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K, something kinda cool just happened...went for my morning run/ jog, and at around mile 3 of 11-12 minute miles it happened- that "whoosh" of the "runner's high" I have been waiting to experience again!!! I was also blasting tunes, and when the "whoosh" happened was listening to this inspiring tune:
http://youtu.be/Le-3MIBxQTw

And was also mentally 'counting my blessings", (trying to cover all endorphin bases-lol)

So, in reference to my previous morning post, I am definitely prescribing to the "our brains DO start healing camp"! Maybe they need a little help though, aka, good nutrition, exercise, music, supplements (I have been consistent for about a month with a multi, extra B-12, Pedialyte, L-Tyrosine) and above all, trusting God, and leaning into love.

I'm sure I'll have my share of ups and downs as I continue to taper and jump, but today I know for sure, once I jump, I never have to use drugs again.

Note to self: Remember there are healthy ways to feel high!


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