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 Post subject: Need some help, please.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:56 pm 
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Hi, this is my first time here and 2nd day taking suboxone. I'm hoping you all can help me...

i will try to make this as short as possible, i've had a problem with opiates for about 2 years. i started out really low on percocet and recently stopped on 40mg a day. I have a pretty low tolerance and have been through withdrawal about 6 times. It was always horrific. crippling depression, anxiety and cravings always made me relapse. I finally decided i had enough and heard that suboxone can really help. I live with my parents, have no job, no money and no insurance. They paid a lot for a suboxone doctor for treatment. He was crazy and treated me like a piece of crap. I don't think he even read the information i filled out for him. he prescribed me 2 8mg sublingual strips a day for 7 days, which seems insane to me, I just said ok and figured i would work out the dosing myself.

So, i went in to withdrawal and surprisingly it was was the easiest i have ever experienced. i decided i didn't need the suboxone and canceled my follow up appointment with the crazy doc, but on day 4-5 i was so horribly depressed i took a 10mg percocet each day. i realized i was screwing up again and waited 24 hours to take a 1mg piece of suboxone that i measured out and cut from the strip. I felt high as a kite and was up all night(i have heard this tends to happen the first time. I felt great and thought i finally found something to help me, but i only slept about 4-5 hours. When i got up, i had really bad shaking for about 15 minutes which scared me a bit. it stopped, but then anxiety started to creep in. i decided to take a .5 piece which helped for a little while, but i had to take another .5mg not long after and i'm afraid i'm going to keep needing more and more like i'm an addict again...

i don't know what to do from here. i just feel really scared. i'm not sure if i should keep trying the suboxone for the depression/anxiety/cravings and try to find a better doctor(i hear there really aren't any) or if this is a lost cause and i should stop now before i make things worse...

i hope this makes sense... i'm tired, but kind of amped up, my head aches a little and i just feel weird and worried.

any help, opinions, experiences, etc.. would be appreciated greatly. also, thank you if you took the time to read all this.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:18 pm 
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You're at a pretty crucial stage in your addiction development and recovery by the sounds of it. When I first went on Subutex when I was 18 or 19, I was only using heroin a couple of times a week, and I remember I actually felt REALLY stoned off the buprenorphine. They only prescribed me 4mg! I then saw my doctor and she dropped me to 2mg because I was clearly "on the nod".

The reason I bring that up is that, in hindsight, that period on Subutex (same medication to Suboxone different formulation) I feel actually made me more addicted to opioids than I was already. I probably went on Subutex before I actually needed it. I stayed on that 2mg of Subutex for a few months, then reduced to 1mg then jumped off. Then I noticed a couple of things. I experienced MORE withdrawal from the Subutex than I had ever experienced off heroin. ie it was my first real experience of opioid withdrawal. And I also craved opioids more than I ever had up to that point.

The point I'm trying to make is that, given your relatively low level of opioid dependence, in my opinion you should not take any more Suboxone than you need. If 0.5mg is "holding you", don't be tempted to take more, because you'll only increase your overall level of dependence on opioids.

Or you could look at non-agonist treatments like naltrexone. If your parents are willing of help you out, why not find a doctor that does Vivitrol shots? They're a monthly injection that basically blocks the effects of any opioids. You could get them for a year or two and then carry on with your life?

There's also rehab. Sadly most rehabs follow a 12-step quackery model, but there's some that don't. If not why not try a change of environment? Geographicals CAN work, and have worked for many people. Moving to a new town, getting a different job, getting a girlfriend, being independent. I've had good periods of recovery clean off all opioids after moving interstate or going to a long-term rehab facility.

Also it sounds a lot like you experience mental health issues, and they may be contributing to your desire to use. Do you have a doctor that's helping you out with your anxiety / depression?

I'm just big-picture-thinking and relating my scenario to where you're at. It's just for me, looking back at that first time I went on buprenorphine, it may have done some harm in the long run. If I could have had my time again, I would have gone to long-term rehab, or gotten the fuck out of my city, got counselling to address my negative self-beliefs AND importantly I would have addressed my mental health problems and stayed on my medication (I have bipolar).


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:13 pm 
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Thank you so much for your input!

I finally passed out last night and slept 12 hours. woke up today with the tremors, but not quite as bad. i still have this dull ache in my head that hasn't gone away after taking an excedrin.

I appreciate your advice and experiences. I did have a suspicion that suboxone may just be too much for me. I think i am going to stop the suboxone and just hope that i don't pay for it.

I do have pre-existing mental issues(bi-polar, anxiety disorder) and have a good family doctor that has been trying to assist me with anti-depressants and a good therapist. I think you are right that i should continue to try these options and maybe something more. I hear you on the 12-step thing though. I tried NA once and it was not for me at all.

Thank you again for your help. I've found that i can get better help and information from people like yourself than most doctors, which is pretty sad. doctors seem so misinformed or ignorant...

I'm just going to hope that i don't end up with horrible withdrawal in 3-4 days when this stuff wears off... that's my biggest concern now...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:32 pm 
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Hey Kilgannon welcome to the forum.

I don't know what it's like to have a small tolerance to opiates then start suboxone. By the time I started, I was way way in over my head and completely powerless to stop on my own. I did however try everything under the sun to stop before starting sub treatment. That's actually something I'm glad happened that way. I know that everything I tried wasn't for me except suboxone. Detox after detox, cold turkey, inpatient rehab, NA, and even several short stays in jail didn't keep me in recovery. By the time I started thinking about sub, I was so defeated that I didn't even believe it would work. It was literally my last resort. It worked better than I could have ever imagined. I had major issues with the depression and cravings that came along with stopping opiates. I could stop and get through the withdrawal sometimes, but I couldn't make it past cravings and depression. That's why suboxone works so well for me.

I'm not sure what to tell u honestly. I think u would benefit from sub and I think it'd help u in ways that u couldn't imagine and normally I'd recommend it in a second...that's how life saving I think this medication is. But I don't want to encourage that if ur at a place where u could possibly stop on ur own. Only u know how u feel. If u can't stop on ur own then I'd definitely recommend it....just in a small dose like teejay said. I do think ur Dr gave u too high of a dose. Like u said, he obviously didn't read anything u wrote down and bother asking. That's why u had that euphoria feeling. But if u take suboxone consistently, that euphoria definitely goes away and u just feel "normal". So that high feeling ur talking about does not last at all.

In the end sub is better than using, no matter what ur tolerance is because tolerance goes up. If u keep using, eventually you'll take more and more. I hope u figure out what is best for u, please keep us posted. Good luck!!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:14 pm 
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First of all, thank God you didn't take 2 8mg strips after being off 40mg for 4-5 days. You probably would have been puking your guts out.

I had a similar experience when I first went on Sub. I had already been off the painkillers for maybe 3 weeks, and I had crushing depression, and felt like I was wearing a lead suit. I was looking for answers on the Internet and found out about Suboxone. I inducted at 4mg and was pretty high for about 2 weeks. I liked the way I felt (was still in addict mode) and ran with it, eventually ending up at 12mg/day as I continued to chase that high.

For me, I feel like it was a huge mistake. Having been off for 3 weeks my tolerance was way down and I brought it right back up with the Sub. If I had it to do over I would have at least given sober recovery a shot before trying Suboxone.

Sub maintenance is the equivalent of about 60mg oxy/day, so you would definitely be driving your tolerance up by going on it. The fact that you got high on 1 mg is evidence of that. Of course, no one here can tell you what to do (other than stay away from that fucking "doctor"). Maybe you could try taking 0.5mg for a few days until you feel a little more stable, then go down to 0.25 then off. Then maybe you can find a doc to treat your depression. A lot of us need to be treated for depression after opioid addiction.

I would also suggest some form of drug treatment, or group support (I go to NA). It helps to be around people that have been through the same pain you're going through. Later, if you feel that you can't maintain sober recovery, Suboxone will still be available.
I wish you the best,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:26 pm 
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thank you both for your advice and sharing your experiences. Having people to talk to does help. An old friend of mine moved away and got in to a program. i talked to her and she told me her NA group helped her a lot and suggested i look for a different group. Unfortunately, other groups are a bit of a drive, but if they can help me get my life back i'm sure i can find a way to work something out.

I'm definitely not dealing with the crazy doctor again. I realized he works in an office that is actually owned by a woman doctor. So, I called and told her assistant about the whole thing. She said she was going to talk to her about it, but she didn't sound real shocked by what i told her... scary...

I made an appointment with my doctor(the good one) on tuesday. He's awesome and even confided in me that he was extremely bi-polar when he was younger until he found the right meds. He's very smart and i trust him. He doesn't know about my addiction though... yet. I imagine he will find out when he pulls up my records...sigh. I may be agnostic, but i'm praying pretty hard right now that he won't dismiss me...

as for the suboxone, i think i'm still going to put that to the side for now. Like you both said, if things don't go well, it will still be there. I think i should really try to push myself harder on other options first.

I guess that's it for now, still feel a little weird and loopy. probably going to end up taking a nap, heh. thank you for all your help. i really appreciate it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:32 pm 
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Yeah I think that's a smart choice and ur right, sub will always be there if u choose it down the line. If I could have stayed clean without taking medicine every day I would have. Like I said, I was too far gone for that, Lord knows I tried. But considering where ur at, exploring other options that u haven't explored yet is a good idea.

Good luck :)

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