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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:49 pm 
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ok, i have a few things i need help with, i have been reading this forum for awhile now and it has really helped me through. i will try to make this shot with that i have been useing pills since i was 18, im now 27. started with oxys then to herion( smoking), i stopped the herion because the WDs where, HOLLY HELL!!, but only to trade it for oxys and percs. i take close to 100mg-150mg of oxy 5mg a day and up to 300mg a day of percs 10mg onother days. during the summer i make alot of money that supports my adiction, but the winter it gets hard and do half that a day do to less money.
recently i decided to enter myself into a subs treatment, 6 weeks was a waitlist and nearest apointment i could get. i continued to use till then, i had little money at this point and was very far into negitive. once i was able to be entered into the program i had no money to get pills, at least till next pay day 2 weeks out. i started the prgram going into it thinking i had be clean due the horror stoies ive heard about not being clean when starting. i do my first drug test before actually takingand of course its clean, i had no money for more. i picked up my script and came in a few days later and started my first strip. taking a drug test everytime come in, for three weeks now. they are now clean because i dont want pills for the most part ecept at night, but im able to fight them off or take some of the strip.
My last apointment was monday and everything about this apointment was fustrating. My doctor was upset, VERY UPSET! with me, that all my test have been clean. she exsplains to me how im at risk of being kicked. she goes into how strict the program is and how regulated it is. i was asked how i can prove to her i need help, i told her all i have is my word, i guess. as you know an addicts word means nothing, to most people especially a doc thhat deals with us aot. What i took from it is she needs a dirty test?
ive been thinking about this alot, im very happy i have made 3.5 weeks not using. but i know if i lose program i will be right back where i started and maybe even worse. i have thought about getting some to give her what i think she wants? ive heard alot of these doc are crooks and its so messed up to think. i have to relapse to stay in?
im sorry for the long post i felt the need to give my background,i guess to justify it to myself. i cant explain how this makes me feel. can someone give me some advice or thoughts on what i should do.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:41 pm 
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding. So the "mistake" you made was getting clean before you went to the clinic
to get your subs? But they gave you the script right? And now you're taking a regular daily dose? But then why do you still have cravings?

I probably should have waited until someone else came along, but it seems a slow forum day.

I'm sorry about being so dense.

Another question, if you're taking suboxone every day, why would they think your drug tests being clean was a bad thing. That's what's supposed to happen.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:53 pm 
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Hey beach,

So prior to starting bup, your urine was clean of substances your Dr. tests. That's maybe unusual bc most folks can't be off their doc that long. Guessing that after starting bup, your urine tests showed NO bup nor its metabolites which means a patient is not taking the med but instead is selling and diverting it. Yes, they test to make sure you're taking bup That's all I can think of. And ya, folks can get fired if they show no bup, esp if it happens more than once, depends on the Dr. It is possible to have a false negative test...

Are you sure you understood what upset your Dr? Call and ask. Its your recovery and you have a right to know what is concerning your Dr. Can't believe your Dr wants you to go back and use to then get a dirty urine test, that could put you at risk to be termed from the program. Wishing you my best, P

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Last edited by Pelican on Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:00 pm 
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i think your dr. means your test should be positive for the subs.
how often are you taking them? make sure you take one before your appt.
if your first test was clean and your next few tests were too she may think you are selling them!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:05 pm 
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Beachlake,

SisterMorphine is correct. There must have been something wrong with the test. You should have tested positive for Buprenorphine and nothing else. Ask if you can do it again for clarification. Just explain to the doctor that you didn't understand what was expected. Now you do.

FYI, I deleted your other post as it was a duplicate of this one.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:16 pm 
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I am not sure I understood the original question but from others I gather you are taking Suboxone, nothing else, and your UA's are not coming back with expected results? IE buprenorphine and norbuprenorphine? If so offer to bring your dose and have them watch you take it. Maybe they would want to do that for a few days and then do another confirmatory test.
From your original post I couldn't figure out why your doctor is upset. Can you clarify?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:40 pm 
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I agree with everyone else. I'm a little confused too. I hope u come bk to explain.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:47 pm 
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thank you for the reply, i may have been misleading on weather or not i was testing clean for all. i am taking ther buprenorphine, that is in my test. my doc is upset due to there also being alcohol in my system. she has made references to, the possiblity of me having a alcohol problem instead of an opiate. that isnt the case at all.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:00 pm 
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also i am 1 8mg strip a day, after i have calmed down and talked to friends i can trust about it. i can see where shes comingfrom with the alcohol, it would appear im trading one addiction for another. the first thing that was said by her to highlight she was upset, she said " ok we need to talk about why you lied to me." " duing your apointment to take the strips, you told me you took pills that friday." ( 4 days prior). but i tested clean. i only took one pill that friday. it should of shown on the test i know, but it didnt. im just giving the details so hopefully there isnt a miscommunication on my part.

i am doing everything that is asked, and im not selling them. except for that and understand why she would be upset.

Also after talking with my friends, and thinking. ive decided to not take anything and give her a test clean of alcohol. since a alcoholic wouldnt be able to go that long without it. thak you for replys once again, and appreciate it.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:35 pm 
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"Also after talking with my friends, and thinking. ive decided to not take anything and give her a test clean of alcohol. since a alcoholic wouldnt be able to go that long without it. thak you for replys once again, and appreciate it."

That's an excellent idea beach.
One thing, you mentioned cravings. And now alcohol is into the mix. Not a doctor, but I'm guessing you might benefit from a higher dose of bupe. Talk to your doctor, it should help. I think Dr. Junig says that 16 mgs a day is safest for chasing those cravings aways, including I believe alcohol cravings. At least that's been my experience.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:49 am 
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thank you for that understanding, i feel like im on a thin line even with that. alcohol is my escape. i hope she understands. i will update after the apointment.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:04 am 
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Beachlake wrote:
thank you for that understanding, i feel like im on a thin line even with that. alcohol is my escape. i hope she understands. i will update after the apointment.


Hi Beachlake. I hope your next round of testing goes well.

I am concerned by what you wrote here, that alcohol is your escape. I am not trying to be judgmental or nitpicky, but the fact that you use alcohol as an escape doesn't make you sound like you have a healthy relationship with it. Those of us who are addicts in recovery talk about living life on life's terms. Sitting with unhappy, unpleasant emotions and feelings is a very important part of recovery.

You were using opiates for 9 years before you got on suboxone, so you are used to numbing your emotions. Now that opiates aren't numbing them, could it be that you are trying to numb them with alcohol? Non-addicted people don't have a need to numb themselves with anything. I think that is the lens through which your doctor is viewing your alcohol use.

The other thing is that you don't have to drink alcohol every day to be an alcoholic or have an alcohol problem. I have a friend who is an alcoholic. She only drinks once in a couple weeks, but once she starts, she cannot stop. She keeps chasing the high and ends up binge-drinking, and then driving!! It wouldn't hurt for you to take an assessment to check for problematic alcohol use.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:16 am 
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All well said Amy. I think there are some misconceptions at work here. But also think he's beginning to
get it. Hope so anyway. One of several surprises for me has been how well this medication seems to
work for alcohol as well, A frank discussion with this doctor is clearly in order.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:34 pm 
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the extent of my drinking, is drink on the weekends, and i drink alot. That turns into a binge. im sure that its my escape, but that was ment more as a question. i appreciate the responses, ill update folks if they would like how my next doctor and councelor apointment go.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:13 pm 
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I hope she "understands"
There is not much to understand. Many programs do not allow alcohol. With me you sign an agreement that you will not drink or use drugs. Sounds like hers is the same.
We would clarify, understand expectations moving forward and put it behind us. If you were tell me that you don't see alcohol as a problem, either now or moving forward we would probably part ways.
Many docs feel the same way.
If she is like me and part of a larger system, then we are subject to chart reviews. The LADC's are also involved in a person's recovery journey and monitor closely.
The problem of cross addiction is real and pervasive, which is why the recovery piece of Suboxone treatment is so important through the first few months.
While writing this you posted about your binging. Huge red flag and could certainly jeopardize your continuing in a Suboxone program.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:01 pm 
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I get urine tested about twice a year because I've been a compliant patient and always talked to my doctor and his PAs when I have any kind of problem. I am completely honest with them. They count my meds when they do a urine check AND I have to blow into an alcohol measure thing (Sorry migraine). I've been with them for over 5 years.

Like docm2 said, your program probably does not allow participants to drink alcohol. Period.

But the biggest problem is that you don't see your weekend binge drinking as a problem. Recovery is not about escape, it's about working on yourself and your issues to get yourself healthy. Otherwise, what will happen when or if you have to stop taking the suboxone? You will be right back where you started with no tools to stay away from any of your drugs of choice or cross addictions. That makes me feel really concerned for you.

Nobody here is perfect, so please don't think that we are a bunch of Pollyannas. All we are is addicts who have learned a few things. We want you to be the best recovered person you can be, but that will take you quitting the drinking every weekend. I urge you to go to a SMART Recovery meeting. There are all kinds of addicts there, including plenty of folks who have problematic relationships with alcohol.

One more thing, BL. There is often a great empty feeling when you stop craving your opiate. It feels pretty awful sometimes. At first I turned to online shopping so that I had something to look forward to. BAD IDEA! Lol! Then I started volunteering to help take care of babies of addicts at a awesome day care for moms in a sober living program. It gave me such a good feeling! You have lots of things you could choose from. Join a hiking group. A non-alcohol book club. Volunteer at an animal shelter or old folks home. You have so many skills that you probably don't even realize because they've been hiding behind your addiction.

Last thing, I promise. You need to either make new friends that don't party or find different ways of hanging out with them. If they are your true friends, not just party buddies, they will understand and support you.

You deserve to live in recovery! You are special and I'm sure that you have friends and family who love you more than you know. Please consider giving up the alcohol. And keep checking in with us. We will support you in any way we can.

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:02 pm 
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ok, i think this was all taken out of context? To be honest i was in my first weeks of recovery im not much further along now, but i didnt understand alot of things that were were happening. im just trying to makeing it and it was hard. i was convincing myself otherwise. i have a little more understanding now not as much as majority of people on here, but i was rationalizing.my dose was raised and I stopped drinking and all is good.

these messages are to easily taken out of context, i went to alcohol when i couldnt afford my pills, on my first appointment i was broke so i tested clean for pills but tested positive alcohol. she didnt have proof that pills were my issue, not the alcohol. im in alot better mind set now and it all makes sense to me. im clean clean and it feels amaizing. in a couple weeks i go to seeing her once a month.

i felt like i was being atacked, but amy cleared it up a ittle. the truth hurts and im still not thinking right completly, but i can see from a different persepctive. thank you everyone for the replys i dont want to be that guy. im taking ths much more surious evern though i thought i was before. thank you.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:20 pm 
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I'm so sorry that you felt attacked. I hope you know now that we didn't intend to hurt you. There are a number of us here who have experience with being cross-addicted with other substances and we know how destructive that can be when we're striving for recovery. We didn't want to see you fall into that very common trap

At the same time, we understand trying to fill up this hole in our lives that used to be filled with pills, even sporadically. Addiction turns people into someone unrecognizable from where we started and it's hard to reconcile this addict stranger with the people we were before substance abuse took over our lives.

I'm so glad you came back! Please let us know how we can help you.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:38 pm 
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Beachlake wrote:
ok, i think this was all taken out of context? To be honest i was in my first weeks of recovery im not much further along now, but i didnt understand alot of things that were were happening. im just trying to makeing it and it was hard. i was convincing myself otherwise. i have a little more understanding now not as much as majority of people on here, but i was rationalizing.my dose was raised and I stopped drinking and all is good.

these messages are to easily taken out of context, i went to alcohol when i couldnt afford my pills, on my first appointment i was broke so i tested clean for pills but tested positive alcohol. she didnt have proof that pills were my issue, not the alcohol. im in alot better mind set now and it all makes sense to me. im clean clean and it feels amaizing. in a couple weeks i go to seeing her once a month.

i felt like i was being atacked, but amy cleared it up a ittle. the truth hurts and im still not thinking right completly, but i can see from a different persepctive. thank you everyone for the replys i dont want to be that guy. im taking ths much more surious evern though i thought i was before. thank you.


your post was confusing to a lot of us. giving us the info about the alcohol helps clear it up. keep up with the serious effort! you get out of the programs what you put in.

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