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 Post subject: Need quick advice please
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:15 am 
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Hello. I have posted on this site a couple-few years back when I 1st started Sub. I had changed my email so couldn't use my old screen name which was Melijm,Melissajm1...something like that. Anyway here's a rundown on my situation. I like many am a married mom of 2. My addiction started with an injury in 2006. I had been on Percocet before for C sections but in 06 something clicked, I became addicted. I went from several Vicoprofen to not being able to get out of bed without at least 60-90 mg of Roxi. Most of the time, I hid this from my husband. I led 2 lives. I was happy, productive, sociable etc...I loved and hated the Roxi at the same time. I so looked forward to those pills but the counting and "what am I going to say to the Dr etc"...wore on me. I Was tired of chasing the devil and was stealing them from people close to me . When I was out of pills and sick, that's when my husband thought I was using. I eventually became 100% honest with him. I found a good Dr and started out at 16 mg. Fast forward THREE+ years later, Im STILL on it but down to 4-6 mg. I went to school while on Sub and changed my career to a 3-11PM very physically demanding job as a nurse aid.

My question is...I finally accrued enough time off from work and got it approved! Now Im excited and nervous to make the jump. I have 10 days total. Should I try to wean further? Problem is with me is I have such extreme fatigue I am SO SICK OF SLEEPING and being lethargic all the time. I know Im depressed as well. Im debating if I stay at my dose and jump or further go through even more WD this last month to taper further. I have never did good past 4mg. I hate to have my kids see me sick again and with my husband its getting old, he's still supportive though. I used to exercise and be active. I am now inactive and 15 lbs heavier, sluggish, dead emotionally and unmotivated (sub?) Along with my mom passing at 59 last summer and abusing the Sub at that time as well (to replicate a good feeling, didn't work), I feel so dead and have been. I am beyond the moon excited to be getting off this shit but I am scared as well. Will I be able to work after 9-10 days? Anyone whos an aid in a nursing home can relate. I have 15 patients a night, most total assist and hoyers.

Its been 9 years that Ive been taking something to start my day and cant wait to go to nothing. Ive tried Wellbutrin with no effect and don't know if I should try another AD. Heres my questions for 10/11/2014...What do I get from my Dr to help WD's (He's not too versed in addiction), I even called him yesterday to let him know of my plans and he wont give me 2mg strips to fascilitate tapering. What an ass! His secretary says "The Dr doesn't want to give you extra Sub". I was pissed and have been clean for over 3 years! Do I wean further by cutting the 8's (PITA by the way) and risk this last month feeling crappy and more sluggish and what else can I do to calm withdrawals. The worst part is the sleeping. I am SO SICK of it. If I cut my dose and try to taper further by 2PM Im out like a light or if Im off Im in bed by 8 and cant wake up. Is anyone else like that? I know its lack of exercise also. Im rambling...any advice appreciated!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:26 am 
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Hi Melissa!! Welcome back!! I think I remember you from your old screen name. Didn't you have a monkey scratching his head for an avatar, or something like that?

K, a jump from 4mg - 6mg is going to be tough. It can be done, but it's going to be tough. Is there anyway you can give yourself time to taper further so as to minimize your wd? It looks like you're wanting to jump about a month from today, that's probably not going to be enough time to taper to a really low dose to avoid the worst of wd.

If you're hell bent on getting off Suboxone in a month's time, you can do it, but it's more than likely going to be a very bumpy ride from 4mg - 6mg.

There's a member here called ryszard (or something like that), he jumped from a very high dose and to the best of my recollection, he kept working and made it through.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:36 am 
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ROMEO! Yes, I had the Monkey avatar. The old "Monkey on my back" thing. LOL. Im actually PISSED because I called my Dr and he would NOT prescribe 2Mg strips for me. I am staying at 4 no matter how tired I am and will push thru work tonight, 4 wont be so bad. After about 4 days I adjust. I thought after 1 week I'll dump to 3 (already cut 8's into 8 pieces and split them up into 3 little pieces which was a PITA) then a week at 1 and I'll jump from there. Everything is cut, labeled and in baggies so I can follow the plan better. Fortunately I have a friend who jumped at 2 7 months ago for support. I will go to meetings with her. I tell you, I am so GD motivated and I HATE the taste of it anymore. Im ready! The mental part will suck but I can do it. I will also use this forum to document my experience and for continued support. Meanwhile, I will try to get my screen name back so I can review my old posts. Question...I have a Dr apt Mon of the last week of Sub, what should I ask for? Clonidine? Xanax? I did get wicked RLS after coming off regular opiates.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:45 am 
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OK, if you're THAT motivated to do this, then you'll survive. I jumped from around 8mg and had pretty heavy wd, but I made it. Was it tough as hell, yep.....but I made it!!

Yes, Clonidine will help you quite a bit. It won't eliminate wd, but it sure knocks it down a good peg or two to make things more bearable. As far as Xanax, you can ask him, not sure he'll give it, though. Xanax will help you, but damn you have to be careful with them. They are very addictive and they can get their hooks in you very fast.....I'm talking a matter of a week or two.

Yeah, I'd be pissed the doctor didn't script the 2mg strips, too. But, you can cut the 8mg's down, even though it's a PITA.

Imodium AD would be good to have on hand, too. Without Imodium, you may be spending most of your time in the bathroom.

Get some of your favorite music lined up. Music is a Godsend for most of us in wd. Take lots of hot showers or baths while in wd, they'll make you feel better. Try to get some exercise in or at least get outside and be active while in wd.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:02 am 
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Hey Melissa,
Just to add to the good advice Romeo has already given, I would "just say no" if your doc offers you Trazadone. I unwittingly took this after my jump, and it DID help me sleep, but then I ended up going through "double withdrawals" for about 10 days when I realized it was causing vertigo (and "who knows" what else- IMO I think it is a very nasty drug!!)

Sounds like you are really ready, but if you can stabilize at 1mg for a bit longer I think your wdls will be substantially less severe. I tapered down to .375mg, and another woman here (Trainer) jumped from 2mgs and we both "made it" (so far). Now she seems way stronger than I am, and she just powered through some tough symptoms that sounded worse and lasted longer than mine (with no comfort meds!)...so it's possible, but if you want to be a bit more comfortable, I'd taper lower and slower if you can.

Either way, best of luck and keep posting!
:D BF

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:32 am 
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Thanks guys...in a nutshell I changed careers last year. I'm now a certified nurse aid in a nursing home. A brutal, exhausting (physically and mentally) stressful job that requires a lot of energy and quick thinking. I have finally accrued enough holidays, vacation etc to take about 10 days off. Day 1 will be Saturday 10/11/2014 :shock: . I'm due to return the following Tuesday but will use sick time and get Dr note if needed for a cuple extra days. I have to do this now as my job is for sale so I will need to seek other employment by the new year and quite frankly I am so done with this shit I cant even take the taste anymore. Im tired of feeling "dead" physically and emotionally and at 43...I really need to find myself after living under the influence of something for the last 9 years (3 on sub). I am scared shitless and pray I have the strength. Ive gone through full agonist WD practically on a monthly basis before going to Subs. Every time I got my 120 30mg Roxis I would convince myself they'd last "this time". Well...I'd be lucky if I made it 10 days. The other 20 were spent frantically searching, fiending, being sick etc...you all know the routine. Im wondering if this will be the same or similar? My 1st WD symptom is the prickles and nodding. Cant stay awake. I used to sleep the day away in a feverish, goose bumpy sweat then be up all night with restless legs, tossing and turning. Diarrhea galore and a whole plethora of other good stuff. It would take 2 weeks to feel OK then I'd start all over again. How stupid. If I knew how strong Sub was and was more educated I never would have touched it. I have the "all or nothing" style. Its always been hard to taper but coming from 16 mg 2 months ago, I did pretty good. Here my biggest debate...I'm going to be sick regardless so do I stay at 4 then jump (I will cut back severely the week prior as to have most out of my system before my time off) or do I continue to taper. 4,3,2,1 and done? Will it matter that much? I will have support from my husband and my friend and will go to AA-NA but I'd like to have a last decent 3 weeks. Does it make sense?? Thanks in advance for your advice! I will prepare and have whatever is suggested on hand. I'm hoping within 2 weeks I'm feeling somewhat "normal" to be able to work. I know its a long journey to heal.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:00 am 
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Hmmm... I did a really long slow taper (over 6 months), so not sure exactly what I'd do since you have only less than 4 weeks before your jump date...can you push it later than 10/11? If not, are you stable at 4mgs now? if so, if it were me, I guess I'd drop to 3mgs for 6 days, then 2mgs for 6 days, then 1mg (or less if you can) until your jump (but that is a 50% drop- which I did, and it was not physically difficult for me, it was much more a "mental" game- my wdl symptoms really didn't get physical until under 1mg) .

I'd also jump about 24 -36 hours before you leave work for your time off (my wdls started about 36 hrs in).

If tapering is not in your DNA, then relax and enjoy your sleep and appetite until your jump. Oh, and don' worry about sleeping all day after your jump...get ready for insomnia both day and night! - but it won't kill you of course and does not last forever! :) Some people do get more sleep than others, I think I averaged about 2-3 hrs a night for a week or so, then it slowly improved.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:44 am 
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Yes...Im stable at 4 so I already have 4 bags of cuts. 4,3,2 and 1 then done. 1 week each. I cant push it off as I had to put in for the time and wait to get it approved. I cant change it. I'll get through it and I'll be sure to post updates as I go. I know its been done before 8) I just hope that 1st harrowing 4 or so days I can still get my son off to school at 6:40AM, my daughter goes at 8:30. It's so much harder when you have kids to take care of also.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:52 am 
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MelissaCNA wrote:
Yes...Im stable at 4 so I already have 4 bags of cuts. 4,3,2 and 1 then done. 1 week each. I cant push it off as I had to put in for the time and wait to get it approved. I cant change it. I'll get through it and I'll be sure to post updates as I go. I know its been done before 8) I just hope that 1st harrowing 4 or so days I can still get my son off to school at 6:40AM, my daughter goes at 8:30. It's so much harder when you have kids to take care of also.

Oh, I hear you 110%!! I also have a son and daughter and caring for them is a big part of the reason I felt "stuck" on subs for SO long- I just couldn't figure out how to get through wdls and still be "Mama" at the same time.
You'll be able to keep up the "Mom face" to get them out the door for school, don't worry. Good for you though that you don't have to keep it up all day! My kids (10 and 12 yrs) went on a little 3 day vacation with their grandparents during my first week off subs and I was SO grateful!!
You should be super excited though because (IMO) you are going to enjoy your kids even more very soon when the "sub fog" has cleared!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:17 pm 
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If you can, I hope you taper the 4, 3, 2, 1. Doing the taper may make the next few weeks a bit uncomfortable, but it'll pay off when jump time comes. Jumping from 4mg can be quite a shock to the system.

Also, if you jump from 4mg, the serious wd probably won't hit until day 3 or 4, so you would probably be best to jump a few days before your official quit date and use all 10 days to get "functional" again. If you taper down to 1mg, you can probably just jump on your quit date and go from there because you'll more than likely not experience any severe wd.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:29 pm 
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Hey there cna,

I cannot relate to the taper or jump as that's not where I am in the process at this time, however I worked as a CNA for a couple years and know how hard that work is, especially when all your residents are total care and hoyer lift patients. You're going to need all the energy for work you can muster, that's for sure! Due to the highly physically demanding nature of your job, imo, it'd be optimal if you could taper a bit slower and lower to minimize your symptons. You've been given some excellent advice by members who've made the jump and are doing well. As butterflying said, our member named, trainer14 jumped from 2 mgs (a high dose), and pretty much worked her job all throughout her detox. I think you'll get a pretty decent idea of how it'll be by reading her thread called "doing it, in the stopping suboxone section of the forum. She used no comfort meds, so if you're able to procure some clonidine, immodium, and be careful if you use a benzo like Xanax or klonopin, as they can be addictive if used for too long, than you may not have wd as intense as hers. Also wanted to add that I've read many members here say that getting in at least some physical activity or exercise each day was very helpful in giving them at least some respite from their symptoms. So even if you don't feel much like getting off the couch, do it anyway! :)

I just wanted to chime in and give my support. You sound as ready as one who wants to do this can be, so I wish you good luck. Keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:50 pm 
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Lizzie, your name is green. I think they made you a moderator!!! Congratulations on becoming a moderator!!! You're gonna do awesome!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:56 pm 
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Awwwwww! Thanks Romeo! I'm going to try to be laid back as possible, and do a good job for you guys. Finding this forum and the friends I've made here has been awesome for my recovery! Hope I do as good a job as our other great mods! Thanks!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:16 am 
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:x I so pissed off. You would think the Dr whos been treating me for 3 years would "help" me in this taper process. I am stable at 4 and called a week ago for the 2MG strips to facilitate the cutting process. The nurse called me back and he sai "No, continue to cut the 8" and he's not "prescribing me any more Sub. Over the weekend I tried to cut the 8's as small as I could and got some crumbly ones. It didn't go well and theyre not too accurate. I also want the 2mg as its a mental thing to have a full size strip under my tongue that would mimic an 8. Does that make sense? Anyway I called again just now and am awaiting a call. I see him the Mon before my Sat jump (10-11). Ive had 3 yrs of monthly clean urine tests and I know I will forever have that stigma. I just want to be done and no longer see this Dr. They supposed treat you for addiction and hes suggestion nothing to taper nor given me advice. Im on my own which is fine. Im petrified to do this and hate the fact my kids will see me down and out for a while. I know I will be extremely fatigued doing a rapid taper and will have to just stick to it in hopes my WD is a bit easier. Part of me says "F it", just jump off of 4mg and get through it. Im sick of talking to the condescending nurses as well and rather speak to him directly. Its as tough he thinks I want extra Sub. Not going to see him once a month is also huge motivation to be done with this shit. Ive also taken to abusing it since my mom got sick then passed. I abuse it for the energy but am sick of feeling dead inside. I will have support of my awesome husband whom Im sure is so tired of this shit by now but doesn't show it. Ive been talking about jumping for a while and now I have the chance. I hope my Dr cooperates with me! End of rant.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:40 pm 
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Other than arguing with your doctor about him giving you the 2 mg films, there is another way I've heard of to quicken the taper.

One of the members here awhile back tapered down to about what you're on. They only had the 8 mg pills too. The way they did it was to just not take any at all until you feel withdrawals start. Then, take just enough to be rid of the symptoms. It accomplished two things. 1) Broke the habit of looking forward to dose time. 2) the body got used to operating on very little.

After a few months of that they just plain stopped. From what I was told the w/d's weren't bad at all. We all know it's mostly in the brain. At least for a lot of us. Some others as you know have a tough time at it. You won't know until you try. Just get down to as little as possible.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:30 am 
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Well...he did phone in the 2Mg strips. Tomorrow I will start on 3 or wait until Thur while Im off. The above advice is excellent and it never occurred to me until I was scanning Youtube videos and 1 man said NEVER take Sub daily beings its made to take you out of withdrawal, only to take just enough when WD hits. The more I think about it, Its an amazing idea and amazing advice. I work 3-11 and unless its my 1 night off during the week or my every other weekend off, I don't see my kids or husband. I would LOVE to use some of that time just to off and enjoy clean life and my family, catch up on things I need to do etc...I know I will have zero energy and still feel shitty but if I start taking the minimum dose to function, I may be out of the woods sooner. I took 2 mg this AM and was waiting until before work to take the other 2 to make it through the night. Right now I am so lethargic and the thought of getting in the shower is like climbing a mountain. I will be so happy the day my energy levels return to a somewhat normal level. The day I don't have to wait for a strip to melt in my mouth so I have some get up and go. I will post daily of my progress and start a new thread shortly. Right now if I could only keep my eyes open...its the kind of sleep you fall into without knowing it. I HATE IT! Thanks all...have a good day!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:02 am 
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I had the same problem with my doctor (or aprn that works for the doctor) and heard horror stories. It seems that there are few of them who truly care, especially addiction and pain management ones. I actually had to educate her about suboxone being a microgram drug that's prescribed in milligrams.

It is sad that they start people at 16+ mg/ day when the ceiling dose is much lower. For me the real test started around 1.5 mg/ day. From there just try your hardest to hold your ground and don't go backwards. Deadlines and schedules are counter productive when tapering. Your body doesn't work that way and they simply don't help.

As I tapered lower I realized I had to fight the withdrawal anxiety with a positive attitude. You get your "nerves back" and become "awake" little by little. Tell yourself "this is a good thing, I'm becoming more alive". When you wake up in the middle of the night feeling horrible force yourself to exercise or go for a walk, even if it's for a minute or two.

Clonidine really helps. There were many studies done that showed it helps symptoms just as much as methadone but with no side effects. METHADONE. I would be careful with any other prescribed meds especially benzos. Remember you're trying to be drug free and are almost there. Good luck.


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