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 Post subject: Need help please!
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 1:24 pm 
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I have been on suboxone for a little over a year now(2-4mg's per day on average)
and for that whole time the suboxone gave me energy,slight euphoria, a state of well being mentally.
(I do suffer from depression and the suboxone was doing wonders for that)
and i was not even considering going back or had cravings to the drug that started my whole problem(oxycontin)
so in my opinion the suboxone was working just fine!
The PROBLEM IS the last few months the things that i benefited from suboxone are not there like they were for all those earlier months???
These days if i take 4mg's or even 6mg's i dont have that same energy, feeling of well being and worst part is i have been
thinking of how great oxycontin made me feel in the beginning days if it.
Does anyone have a idea of why after all these months this is happening?
is it tolerence build up? have i just been on it too long?


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 1:44 pm 
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If you ask me that's a common thing to hear from sub users,it makes everything peaches for a wile but can you realy expect a drug to fix everything forever? No, You can't expect a drug to make u feel good the rest of your life, u know?? In my opinion you should consider getting off at this point I think suboxone is great to use as a tool but if you want to be on something long term methadone is probly the way to go, methadone has long term study's behind it and doctors understand methadone. Unfortunately suboxone is yet to be studied In a quality long term study....so far the only "long term study" I have found involved using only 30 suboxone patients over the coarse of a few months, that Is a piss poor excuse for a long term study....if I were you I would go see an edocrinoligist and have your hormone levels tested as well....


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 1:57 pm 
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semperfiguy wrote:
if I were you I would go see an edocrinoligist and have your hormone levels tested as well....


Thanks you for the reply, and i am quoting you above because i wanted to ask if you are refering to getting a T level check?
I seen this recently on a tv ad and had me wondering? the ad said if your testosterone levels are too low it can make you feel
very low,weak,etc.
I know that for the last 5 months i have had NO SEX DRIVE whatsoever and that has me concerned as well?
prior to getting involved with opiates i had a normal sex drive.


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 Post subject: Low T
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 2:52 pm 
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Hey Roadsend,

It is well known that opiates in general cause low sex drive. There is a fairly current thread here about low testosterone and young men. We have had so many men complain about Suboxone causing their T levels to drop that IMO it is almost a study on its own.

I remember all those times I stopped taking opiates and my sex drive coming back twofold. It was always one of the good things to have back after the withdrawals were lessening. Suboxone is also an opiate. A partial agonist it may be but it sure seems to affect our sex drive. After complaining to my Sub Dr. about my low sex drive and the feeling of being tired, he ordered a blood test and found my T levels very low. Age probably played a part in it and Sub too is my guess. He prescribed some testosterone cream and within a week I was feeling like a teenager again. All it took was the wind to blow and up went the flag pole.

So go get yourself tested and see if that doesn't help some. I've been on Suboxone for 3 years now and nothing has changed one bit. We are all different so it will be up to you to find out what's going on. My concern is you getting some cravings for the oxy's again. I will suggest going to 6 mg's. 4 is the ceiling and 2 more just to be sure. Tell your doctor and I'm sure he'll agree to up your dose if you're getting cravings.

Let us know how you're doing.

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 Post subject: Re: Low T
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 4:58 pm 
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rule62 wrote:
Hey Roadsend,

It is well known that opiates in general cause low sex drive. There is a fairly current thread here about low testosterone and young men. We have had so many men complain about Suboxone causing their T levels to drop that IMO it is almost a study on its own.

I remember all those times I stopped taking opiates and my sex drive coming back twofold. It was always one of the good things to have back after the withdrawals were lessening. Suboxone is also an opiate. A partial agonist it may be but it sure seems to affect our sex drive. After complaining to my Sub Dr. about my low sex drive and the feeling of being tired, he ordered a blood test and found my T levels very low. Age probably played a part in it and Sub too is my guess. He prescribed some testosterone cream and within a week I was feeling like a teenager again. All it took was the wind to blow and up went the flag pole.

So go get yourself tested and see if that doesn't help some. I've been on Suboxone for 3 years now and nothing has changed one bit. We are all different so it will be up to you to find out what's going on. My concern is you getting some cravings for the oxy's again. I will suggest going to 6 mg's. 4 is the ceiling and 2 more just to be sure. Tell your doctor and I'm sure he'll agree to up your dose if you're getting cravings.

Let us know how you're doing.

Rule


Thanks for the helpful info, I see my sub doc in another week and will definitely talk to him about a being tested for T levels just to see if this had been bright up by other male patients.
Something is definitely up, but it is not what i had hoped would be up :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:47 pm 
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Absolutely look into low t....but to be honest I would leave the sub doctor out of it, they are basically useless, go see an endocrinologist or primary care doctor and he will give you a referral to an endocrinologist if you need one for insurance.....these sub doctors are the absolute worst...


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:47 pm 
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semperfiguy wrote:
Absolutely look into low t....but to be honest I would leave the sub doctor out of it, they are basically useless, go see an endocrinologist or primary care doctor and he will give you a referral to an endocrinologist if you need one for insurance.....these sub doctors are the absolute worst...



thanks i agree about the sub docs and will talk to my GP about a referal cause
I just did some internet searching on low T and i have at least 7 of the named symptoms,
Depressed feeling
fatigue
Muscles are weaker than normal
total lack of motivation
no sex drive
slight numbness of organ
feel very un-optimistic about things

I certainly hope that just being on suboxone a year could not cause this? :shock:


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:54 pm 
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I bet that a year is plenty of time for sub to kill ur testosterone, it happens to freakin every guy on sub...so now what you need to do is decide if you want to quit sub and hopefully the damage isn't so bad that your hormones will come back all on their own......or stay on sub and go on hormone replacement, as of now hormone replacement is a for life decision as once u do hormone replacement you will have to continue for life, but hopefully in the future new technology can change this....


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:58 pm 
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FIRST here are some old threads, ALL titled something to do with testosterone and sub....
some good reading for you

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=57184

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=53043

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=55796

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=44677


and second,,,,,
I sorta felt the SAME way you describe, after a couple months on sub, but itwas becuase Up until a few months of sobriety,,,

my "RECOVERY" was my Bright new shiny thing.... it was so awesome, new, fresh, fun, you know,,, it was GREAT....

then,
the newness WORE OFF,,,
, and all i was doing was going to work and paying bills....and that REALLY SUCKS>....

so,,
if any of that, sounds like it may hit home for YOU... I suggest finding SOMETHING to do with yourself, SOME KIND of fun,
or some kind of "payoff" for being OFF THE PILLS....
seriously,,,
this life with NO getting high,,, really is tough....
least it has been FOR ME.....

so YOU SHOULD reward yourself, not too much,,, but just a little..... a LITTLE something to look forward to ,,
goes a HELL of a long way...

Hope that helps....

good luck

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:59 pm 
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The testosterone cream rule 62 was talking about is hormone replacement therapy just to clarify and it is for life because as you start to use it your body will not do it on its own ever again.....this is why you should consider quitting subs and giving your body a chance to do it on its own first, witch it may not be able to do anyway....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 7:34 pm 
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semperfiguy wrote:
I bet that a year is plenty of time for sub to kill ur testosterone, it happens to freakin every guy on sub...so now what you need to do is decide if you want to quit sub and hopefully the damage isn't so bad that your hormones will come back all on their own......or stay on sub and go on hormone replacement, as of now hormone replacement is a for life decision as once u do hormone replacement you will have to continue for life, but hopefully in the future new technology can change this....


and keep in mind before going on subs i was addicted to oxy for a year and a half so i would be willing to bet
my T level is at a extremely low number.
it has to be with all those years of being on a opiate everyday


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 Post subject: That's a new one
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:41 pm 
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semperfiguy wrote:
Absolutely look into low t....but to be honest I would leave the sub doctor out of it, they are basically useless, go see an endocrinologist or primary care doctor and he will give you a referral to an endocrinologist if you need one for insurance.....these sub doctors are the absolute worst...


That one really threw me for a loop. How can you say Sub doctors are the absolute worst? They are all physicians who went to medical school and just happen to have special training to dispense Suboxone. I have had two so far and both have been excellent doctors. There is no reason to go see a specialist when it comes to low testosterone. It only takes one check mark on the blood test order to find out. I do understand that some doctors might be abusing their privilege to dispense in order to increase funds. But that is most likely due to the low insurance payments they get and not to abuse their patient. Some may, the majority is not. IMO

Did you read a study that said when taking hormone replacement therapy that you would be on it for life? Or are you just guessing? In that case an Endocrinologist would know more about it, not me. I just don't like statements that sound like absolutes unless some study can be linked to it.

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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:29 pm 
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I for one am really hoping that i would not have to be on it for life as far as HT goes.
I would not mind having to keep my T levels boosted for the remaining time i would be on subs but would hate to have to
keep getting treatment after i stop taking the sub.
I am also getting ready to lower my daily dose to keep the side effects of sub at a minimum.
Seems that from what i have researched, 2mg's or less a day are optimal for anyone who has already stabilized on the normal dose. upping my dose is not a option since i want to try to get off subs in the near future.


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:08 pm 
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Rule 62.....the very nature of the suboxone market and ease of breaking into this market attracts some of the slimiest doctors their is and so far my 3 diff doctors have been disgustingly uninformed/or unethical pill pushers...that could change as the money making potential of suboxone fades and people learn about what this drug is doing to people.........about hormone replacement I am on testosterone myself.....my sub doctor refused to even speak about low t when I would bring it up......I saw an endocrinoligist he also believes the suboxone market is a venue FILLED with some of the most irresponsible doctors there are....anyways hormone replacement absolutely is a decision for life if u take it ur gunna have to take it for life because your body is not going to do this anymore I mean that's no secret look it up....I'm not gunna argue but I thought I would explain since you singled out my post


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Lots stray from it too because they don't want to deal with a bunch of lying shit bag addicts all the time lol.

Dea breathing down their necks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:52 pm 
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Movie maker that's true, I bet some of the BEST doctors out there also stay away because of the potential nightmares with the DEA.......why would a smart young doctor with all the options in the world jump into the suboxone market witch is absolutely thought of as shady among much of the medical community ......it can ruin his reputation because I'm telling you there is a culture among doctors and lots of them look down on suboxone doctors for the lack of research they do before giving somebody a ticket to the sub train and that most of them don't know anything about what it takes to get you off the stuff, they only know how to put you on it....... ...I'm gunna cut myself out of this conversation I'm not bashing subs I'm just talking with movie maker sorry everybody


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:04 pm 
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semperfiguy said, "anyways hormone replacement absolutely is a decision for life if u take it ur gunna have to take it for life because your body is not going to do this anymore I mean that's no secret look it up..."

I can't seem to find any credible info that supports your position. Actually, all I found were articles that disagree with your position.

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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:21 pm 
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Go to body building.com those guys know alot about this stuff they don't even have the damage we have from opiats and half of them want to go on test but won't do it cuz it's for life, the other half don't care they think the benifits are worth loosing the function......my endocrinoligist has explained this to me and I believe him....all the research I have done says the same thing.....there is alot of speculations that future technology is gunna change this but uhhh I am under the impression that your body will discontinue test production after you begin putting testosterone in your body and that it is extreamly unlikely for the body to resume this function on its own if you stop....it is possible ok, but with the damage we've done with opiats on top of putting test in our body.... it is extreamly unliky for you to ever be able to produce it on our own ever again.....


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:23 pm 
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I'm not bashing horemone replacement ok I'm on it myself and have seen improvements from it....


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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:30 pm 
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One of the sites I checked out was a bodybuilding forum. They said their T levels go back to where they were before they started supplementing, not that their bodies stopped producing forever. Sure, there is a period of a couple of months where their T levels crash when they stop supplementing, but those levels return to baseline in time.

When I got off Suboxone, my T levels were low, but not low enough to where my doctor put me on replacement T. On a whim, I started lifting weights shortly after that and my T levels have rose to the mid range.

I abused the hell outta opiates for 10 years, but my T levels are fine now. Low T wasn't permanent in me, I guess I'm just special!!! :lol:

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