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 Post subject: Need help asap!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:35 pm 
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Okay guys this makes my third week of trying to get my dose under control..I get 2 8 mg films per day and one 4 mg film per day...I took very hard drugs before taking suboxone and had a huge tolerance...before I went to my sub doc I started taking the subs a week before the app...I was taking 3.5-4 8 mg per day and I was ok...I have a huge problem...I go back for an adjustment on the 20th and I really need atleast 3 8 mg films per day because I've gotten behind on my count...can I call my doc and ask for extra to make it through to my app kn the 20th? What should I do guys? Any advice is appreciated!!


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 Post subject: Re: Need help asap!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:33 pm 
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All you can do is talk to your doctor. That's all any of us can really suggest.

My non-medical-expert opinion is that you're being a bit of a baby when it comes to your dose. I don't know how else to phrase it, sorry if that comes off harsh. It's just that a lot of us were in your shoes, and have had really high tolerances, and have made do on much less than what you're taking. You're still in the mind frame of needing to dose many times a day to get a "boost." I can assure you, if you take the recommended amount, you will not be in withdrawals. You may not get that extra boost you get, but you will be fine. It just takes a week or so to even out and be "normal" on a dose. Not high.. not low.. just normal.

I hope you can work it out with your doctor or find a way to adjust to a more practical dose. Good luck, Rick!


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 Post subject: Re: Need help asap!!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Wow, talk about a verbal slap around!!!! I wasn't looking to get an answer like this...trust me, tinydancer I've done many drugs and had just as much of a tolerance to it as anybody, no offense guys...but I wanted an answer of advice, I pay my clinic 400 per month and I know ppl around my area who pay less and get more than I do...I'm not crying I just think I deserve the same treatment as anybody else...I've came to realize that my problem most likely has something to do with the fact that my spine is messed up badly, the suboxone helps my pain and I'm thinking I need more of it through the day for it to help..if anybody has anything to say in this regard, I'd greatly appreciate it!! Maybe I'm not far enough along yet to get the 4 that others get,
I dunno


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 Post subject: Re: Need help asap!!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:55 pm 
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At first read my answer would have almost certainly be the same as Tiny Dancers. It still kind of is, maybe a little less, but it comes from a place of care and having been there.

Are you already dosing multiple times daily for pain? If not, that's the ideal way to dose for pain with buprenorphine? My first take is that because you didn't mention it initially, it probably is just a 'hunch' on your part and you have no data to support it. Unless your prescriber is encouraging you to dose multiple times daily, the ideal way to take buprenorphine for addiction is once daily to get out of the cycle of taking pills whenever the mood hits you or to combat feeling or dealing.

You can take 32 mg or 10 mg and the analgesic effect will only last 6-8 hours max, hence the need for more frequent dosing to be effective for chronic pain. THAT said, many other people here deal with serious documented physical chronic pain and achieve decent pain relief with buprenorphine dosing once or twice daily. I dose twice daily personally, sometimes forgetting my second 8mg dose. So, I think when tiny suggested that you were still exhibiting some tendencies apparent in active addiction, I think she was right. I used to feel the same way and it's a totally rational way to think in active addiction and early recovery 'well, all documentation says the maximum dosage is 32mg and my habit was bigger than Bills, and Bill tells me he's getting 32mg, so I should get 32mg as I pay good money.' Trust me, the 'I pay X-amount-of-money line will get you no where, see how far it gets you with another Dr who isn't prescribing buprenorphine.

The reality is that there is almost zero difference between 10 and 32mg like I said minus the mental want to take more narcotic out of habit which is, again, totally normal as you are just a few days or weeks or whatever removed from active addiction. I don't think it's a matter of 'trust,' your DR simply realizes that you don't need 32mg, but if you do feel the need I'm sure you can eventually convince him/her into giving you a dosage that will really provide little to no more benefit, keep an obsession up to some degree and simply be a waste.

My recommendation, as someone who has been within the same frame of thinking, is to give it some time, let your body adjust to the 20mg, which I can all but guarantee you is going to be as effective as 32mg all day every day. Anything less than that will likely end up being a disservice to you. If you don't agree today, you will a month from now if you stay at the same dose.

In the meantime, people can typically stay pretty comfortable taking even 4mg daily, if you have even that to get through the rest of time until your appointment you might want to try it. Or call your DR and try your way but not knowing your prescriber personally, no one here can predict the outcome of that call. I hope everything works out for you.

Rereading this, I could totally be a rapper. Rappin' clinically about Suboxone, yo.

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 Post subject: Re: Need help asap!!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:57 pm 
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Hey Rick,

I'm sorry if my directness came off as verbal slap, but it's my opinion that honesty works best, especially with us addicts. I've never been big on coddling as a way to get through to people, we all coddle ourselves enough. Sometimes just the facts are needed.

My reply was based on some comments I saw in your first thread.
Rick22 wrote:
I know exactly where your coming from there!! I've tried to not take my noon dose but in the middle of working or anything really, I start to sweat, shake, stomach hurts and I can't concentrate unless I dose...it's weird, I'm Gknna have to talk with the doc about it on Thursday,
He's very understanding..

Based on your comments, it appeared to be a classic "I think I need more when I really don't." I know, because I've been there too. The higher the dose I was on, the more I felt like I was going into withdrawals throughout the day. Anyway, that's where my comment was coming from. You asked several times if it was in your head, and I believe the bulk of your symptoms are, sans pain. You should not be going into full blown withdrawals on 20mgs of suboxone. I can understand if you have break through pain, though, based on your previous injuries.

Since you have legitimate pain that you need to treat, my only suggestion is to talk to the doctor. (Which is why I lead my post with those instructions.) Did you have an appointment last thursday? Did you talk to him about the issues you're having? How did he respond?

I hope that you can get the dose you believe you need, I really do! But in the mean time, it doesn't do you any good to take extra tabs if you're going to run out early. You will survive on the 20mgs a day until the 20th, even if you are a bit uncomfortable.

So, is there anything that leads you to believe your doctor will up your dose on the 20th? What is the status of the conversation between you and your doctor regarding your dose?

(btw, I've known a lot of people on sub, but none that have gotten 32mgs. I know it's possible, and I've read a few stories on this site about that dosage, but it's pretty rare. It's not the norm, and most doctors won't do it unless there are extraordinary circumstances, like pain. So if you plan on asking for that much, I'd go at it as pain management rather than addiction treatment.)

TD


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 Post subject: Re: Need help asap!!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:05 pm 
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I know that everyone's body chemistry is different, but to put things in perspective, I was on a 600 mg daily dose of Oxy when I decided I'd had enough and went on Subs. I started out at 12 mg daily and felt great by day 3. I have since tapered down to 1 mg a day and took the jump this morning. I was on Subs for a total of 16 days. The advice that I'm offering here is that you can probably get by on a much much smaller dose than what you feel you need to take. If you are at a high probability of relapse though, you should probably stay on the Sub until you get your life together. The time it takes is different for everyone and only you really know what you're experiencing. Just know that you can get by on much less than what you're taking. Much love and well thought to you and keep up the good fight.

-TMD


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 Post subject: Re: Need help asap!!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:18 pm 
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Sorry, off topic.

You slay me, Twin.
TwinCitiesHardcore wrote:
Rereading this, I could totally be a rapper. Rappin' clinically about Suboxone, yo.


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 Post subject: Re: Need help asap!!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:47 pm 
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Hi Rick,

I totally get where you are. It's so hard in the beginning to distinguish between real discomfort that might be associated with WD, and what our minds make us think is WD. I don't remember you saying how long you have been in treatment...but I know it is at least under 30 days right? I can almost guarantee that if you stick with the 20mg (which in all honesty is already a VERY high dose) you will be just fine once your body and mind quit screaming at you that you haven't given it the usual fix.

Nobody here wants to offend you for no reason. However, most of us tend to agree that those huge dosages are just unecessary. Medically speaking, TwinCities gave you a correct answer, you shouldn't be feeling any difference between a dose of 16mgs and 34mgs. I know it doesn't make any sense...but this is just how the ceiling effect of suboxone works.

This forum has seen a large amount of people who have come here and explained how they were on large doses (in some cases for years) and were able to cut down to 8 or 4 mg before they ever noticed a difference in how they felt at all. We have also had many people come here with adverse effects from suboxone which were reconciled after lowering their dose. The cravings and WD were handled just as effectively but the side effects were lessened and in some cases completely alleviated by a decrease in dose. I have seen heroin addicts on this forum being regulated at 4mg or less per day and doing fine.

Again, I know this goes against everything we have ever experienced with our DOC before...but suboxone is a completely different animal, which is what makes it so wonderful for putting our addictions into remission.

Personally, I don't think our Tiny was trying to "slap you around". She is only being honest, and answering the question which was posed. Long term, that's what you needed to hear. As for what you should do until your next appointment...that's another thing entirely. I understand you have taken more than prescribed (which by the way we have all done) and don't have enough to make it until your next appointment. I would be very careful about what you say to your doctor about that. It would be very easy for him to turn this around on you and accuse you of not taking your recovery seriously. I don't believe that is the case, but I would honestly be worried about giving that perception this soon in your treatment. Can you possibly make it until your next appointment with what you have? I would be very surprized if you didn't still feel physically fine on a much smaller dose. You have so much stacked in your system by now that you shouldn't feel any WD for several days. Bupe has a VERY long half life. I know that's not the ideal situation...but it's definitely what I would do if it were at all possible.

Honestly Rick, I believe that most of these symptoms are just the lingering effects from your active use. You can't expect to go from a heavy user to recovery without having to do some battling for normalcy. The good news is that it does get better. If you spend some time really focusing on working a recovery program it would be a huge help. But even if you don't, once you let your body adjust to it's new "normal" you will begin to see that you just don't need to dose so many times a day. Let yourself be open to that possibility instead of dwelling on the perceived need to dose again when you start to feel uncomfortable. It takes time, but you will get there bud.

Let us know how your next appointment goes.

Q

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 Post subject: Re: Need help asap!!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Tinydancer,
I had no idea u had read some of my prior posts in regard to the injuries I had suffered to my spine and neck but I appreciate that u did...I've been going to this clinic for around 2 weeks, however I started taking subs 2 weeks prior to my app so ill say one month...when I bought them off the street I bought enough
For 4 per day because that's
The amount my friend told me
Most clinics would start me on because of the addiction and pain management issues...as my doc goes he knows I'm taking little extra and said that on the 20th if I needed an adjustment he'd be glad
To help me and he said If
I needed anything to call him between time...I don't want to get off on the wrong foot with u because u seem to know alot, but I thought u might have been coming off a little on the asshole side, but I know better now so I apologize and hope I can gain a friendship with I like I have with Romeo...and to the others I will answer ur questions asap, gotta
Look over me I'm a hard headed country boy lol


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 Post subject: Re: Need help asap!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:28 am 
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Hello everyone
Love yall good luck........


This same post has been written in four or five different threads and so I'm deleting the content, but not the friendly good wishes.

The content of this post was inappropriate on this particular thread because the OP is just getting on suboxone, not off of it.

Amy

Moderator


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 Post subject: Re: Need help asap!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:40 pm 
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No problem, Rick! I can totally be an asshole sometimes, but it's usually always coming from a good place. My post above was not my asshole side though, that was just me be honest about how I saw your sitch. It's all good, though. I hope you work something out with your doctor or find a way to adjust to the slightly lower dose. Just don't take extra and run out early. That's the worst thing you can do for your recovery. Make whatever the doctor gives you last until your next appointment and you will even out.

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

(p.s. hard headed country boys are my specialty)


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 Post subject: Re: Need help asap!!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:45 pm 
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tinydancer wrote:
Sorry, off topic.

You slay me, Twin.
TwinCitiesHardcore wrote:
Rereading this, I could totally be a rapper. Rappin' clinically about Suboxone, yo.


I'm glad someone caught it. :D

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Person-centered counseling, education, advocacy, referral services and assessments.


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