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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:28 pm 
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A little bit of background, I started taking opiates about five years ago, a Vicodin at a time, given to me from family for bad menstrual cramps and fibromyalgia pain. Things progressed, and when I got on suboxone in Jan 2014, I was using 400-500 mg of oxy at a time, or a few bundles of powder h.

I was prescribed 16 mg of suboxone, bumped it up to 20 shortly after because I was still craving. After reading around on the internet, primarily on Bluelight, I found out about the "less is more" theory, and cut my dose down to 4-6 mg a day.

My doctor is a joke, but he's the only one I could find. In my town there are four suboxone drs, and they all have huge waitlists. After leaving rehab in October 2013, it took me 3 months to find this doctor, he is in my hometown 2 hours away from where I live, but it works ok because I usually visit there once a month anyways to see my parents, now I just time my visits to coincide with the appointments.

I had to quit smoking mj as my doctor drug screens, and I really didn't want to quit, so I've been tapering and stockpiling so eventually I can ditch the doctor and continue smoking. I am currently around 1 mg a day, and have enough suboxone to last me about 3 years at my current dose. I also found out that we experience more effects from the suboxone when dosing under the ceiling.

I know this is all bad.

I've been at the 1 mg for a few weeks now, and the last few days, I have been craving very badly. I slipped a few days ago, and again tonight, and got some oxy. I cut off everyone who supplied me with the exception of one very close friend who happens to have an oxy script :/

Do you think the lower dose is why I am craving? A few days ago when I slipped, I had 40 hours after my oxy dose and 80 hours since a bupe dose before getting back on - and I was not in withdrawals at all.

Part of me feels that I should just stop taking the bupe, because apparently I am not physically addicted. But suboxone helps my depression immensely. I have been depressed to the point of being suicidal at times since I understood the concept of suicide.

What should I do? I'm so confused. Should I raise my dose back up, and if so, to what? Should I just keep the suboxone that I have and stop going to the doc so I can smoke mj again? Other than suboxone, mj helps me more than any medication could, I've tried many. How bad is it that I enjoy feeling my doses? Is this really as bad as it's made out to be? To me, it seems preferable to fully relapsing. Before I lowered my dose, I was miserable on suboxone and craved constantly.

My doc will be no use, he will just kick me out if I mention any of this. I made an appointment with the county addiction and mental health center here, and I am scheduled to start counseling and groups, basically IOP (they drug test and even alcohol is not allowed), but they couldn't get me in for my first counseling appointment for two weeks, and I can't start groups til then.

I have no friends anymore, my parents are somewhat supportive but are alcoholics, the only support I have is my girlfriend. I feel so lost and confused. What should I do? I hope to hear from someone soon. I feel so alone. Oh, and NA meetings are a joke here, with people coming in high and trying to sell while there. I just don't know where else to go, or what to do.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:57 pm 
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I really wish someone would answer me... Is there something I did/said wrong?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:17 pm 
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Hey Fully,
Well man, I ll tella this.
When I got on suboxone I wanted to stop getting high. Do you? Sorry, but it dosent sound like it here,

To be on sub is to be clean off of everything else. Those are the rules for most programs.
Your post tells me you like sub at low doses bucuz of the high it can give. At higher doses you have stated you are miserable. Right? And you want to keep smoking weed..sorry bro, but you dont seem to want to be clean. Im not puttn you down, im not, but you cant have it both ways in sub treatment. .it wont work for loug.

So sorry your alone in all this. I am. No fun..
However, maybe think about being off opaites again. Maybe go back to your dr, get back up to a maintenance dose again. If it has helped with your depression tnen that isca nuge plus.
This is all just my opinion, and sorry nobody jumped in to a swer you. But this is a suboxone recovery site, and we are here to help .
Its just that you posted as if you justvwant to keep gettn a buzz, and we just arent into to that here.
So,...idk, do you want to try it again? Maybe start back up in the 4 to 8 mg range and see how it gos.
I was in iop and it did me wonders.
And NA, hey, you get what you put into that program. SOMEBODY there has to be real, find them....

I really wish you the best, an keep posting here too. Others will come alone too..hang in there man...

Razor....


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:04 am 
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Thanks for the response.

I understand that this is a recovery board. I thought I was doing fine on the lower dose of sub, until I ended up using... It's a sneaky thing.

If the fact that I still want to use marijuana is not ok here, I suppose I'll have to stay on bluelight. I have given this issue so much thought. I've been clean from it for 4 months. I've been unemployed the whole time, plenty of time to think.

I also read threads here where people mentioned drinking - I don't see marijuana any differently. Honestly, alcohol would be more likely to cause problems for me, not less.

If someone is scripted a benzodiazepine for anxiety, how do you look upon that here? I could go that route, but why use another addictive substance when marijuana is not addictive for me? I have picked it up and put it down many times. And I will continue to do so as long as I need to...

All that aside, I had a really rough period on top of my fibromyalgia pain, and I know that pain triggers my using... Usually I get good pain relief from sub, but not this time. I actually get better pain relief on the lower doses though.

I have counseling set up, only another week to go. I don't know why I'd be doing any of this if I "didn't want to be clean". I may not have wanted it when starting treatment, but seven months out of active addiction has made me see a little bit how crazy and messed up my thoughts and rationalizations were back then...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:08 am 
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Also on the NA note... I'm not strong enough at this point I don't think to say no when someone walks up to me and offers me h/oxy. I've gotten where I am by ditching the dealers and losing the numbers. I still don't know how I'd fare if given the opportunity...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:02 am 
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Ok so we will just deal with the sub then.
And recovery is a personal thing. Its up to each of us to define just what our recovery is to us.
I see people off opiates useing Suboxone. Thats the real issue here. So smoke weed too, some drink, thats up to each person.
And no, you are more than welcome here Fully, for real..
Na isnt for most people, I get thst too. I go some, and never have had to deal with drugs there, if that makes sense. Lol

You also have pain issues, I dont know how people deal with it plus addiction problems too..

Ya, at lower doses it can sneak up on you. Idk, just look at where you were before on a higher dose, if life was better then than now..no, I dont walk in your shoes, you do. No judgements from me .hope you come back. ..razor


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:43 pm 
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See, I actually feel BETTER on the lower doses. But that doesn't really matter if I relapse. I might have to try just bumping it up a little bit, to the point where I can't literally get high immediately after taking it like I did the other day... I don't know though, the blocking has never worked that great for me, even on 16 mg I have gotten high (back when I was still working and surrounded by dope, and getting pills for free/cheap).

Now that I've been unemployed for almost 6 months, what I'd really like is to find a job... I think the boredom is getting to me.

*edit - To be more specific, I don't catch any buzz off suboxone at any dose anymore. I like the lower doses because I have more energy and motivation, whereas I just get tired on the high doses now.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:29 pm 
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Ooooh..
Hey Fully, man, I guess I have miss read you or something. Ahain I didnt mean to sound judgemental an shit..and ya, I just read your other post from today, so, your no damn rookie are ya?!?!? Lol..

Could still get high at 16mgs?. Wow, well ya, maybe a higher dose..

Hang in there ..razor


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:23 am 
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Read this post here or a diff post? I posted a lot today so I have no idea which one you meant.

I don't know if I could still get high when taking 16 mg. I think my receptors have probably down-regulated some, as my tolerance is way down. Shit, I got really high off 120 mg oxycontin. That hasn't happened in years. But I'm sure if I bumped back up to 16 mg or more, eventually I'd just be able to get high while on it. Unfortunately, I know from experience that I could literally take a full strip to try to prevent myself from a relapse, while already having taken 16 mg, and still get high a couple hours later. It took like 500 mg, but I used to have to do that in one shot to get high anyways if trying to do pills.

I lost everyone else's numbers etc, but unfortunately this guy is a very close friend to me and my girl, and I also have his number memorized... usually I just try not to call him in the three days or so he has his script before it's gone.

A lot of people misread me because I still want to smoke. The thing no one understands is that smoking actually does get rid of my cravings. Better than sub, better than anything. And it doesn't take much. Not enough to be "high" or impaired at all. I smoke like a hit or maybe two, and then I can go on with my day like opiates don't exist.

Unfortunately it's not legal, or acceptable to my doc, or a lot of other people. I've been to rehab, I've gone to NA, I've talked out my problems, and I am to the point where most of the time I hold it down on my own. But even after months on end of not smoking, I wish it was an option, because it worked the best for me. I understand that it really isn't at this point in time but I just wish that sub worked like that for me I guess. That it actually took away my cravings. Don't get me wrong, it still helps me. It takes care of my physical pain enough that 99% of the time, that's not a trigger for me. It helps my depression, which is what always caused me to keep using after that physical pain would trigger me to start. It just doesn't get rid of those cravings that seem to result from boredom, I guess, and I wish it would...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:23 pm 
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I've realized I'm dealing with a lot of anxiety. I'm not answering the phone when potential employers call. I'm not finding a dr when I should be. I'm not sleeping at night which causes me to sleep through the day and not be ready to deal with my issues til like 5 pm. Everything closes here then. Doxylamine, Benadryl don't work for me. I have flexeril, doesn't work either. I'm not used to talking to people as I've been unemployed 6 months. I need help and I need to kick myself in the ass to get it.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:32 pm 
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Hey Fully,
How ya doing tonight?
So, ive reread this thread a bit and
wish I had all the answers for you, but I dont.
Thing is you sound like if ya made a couple a changes life could improve.
You said you have the iggest draw back to gaining clean time, BORDOM.Thats the worst of all of them I think..
So, what can you do?, I always try to do something that is a moving forward act. Such as maybe make yourself pick up that phone and grab a job. Job fills time and we get momey for it! Lol..get back to etter sleep hours. I know you know all this already, but im just egging you on, or sayin..maybe your fears will subside too..
However, number one for me would be finding that Dr..dosing high enough too.
Your right about lower doses and feeling better. Ive bn so much better on 5mgs than the 12 I was on 3 years ago..and ya, its to bad the weed smokin is a recovery no no. It can help with somethings for some people, my x wife takes a hit or two 3 times a week for her pain.
Look this is just my 2 cents here, you know what to do it seems. Just gota do it man..we on Suboxone are clean, or as Dr Junig says, "clean enough..thatscwhat I tell my na peeps..they dont agree mostly..whatever then. Meetings do help in someways. Ok, rambled enough here on your thread. .

Oh, and get some sleep.....razor


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:30 am 
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I'd love to get some sleep - seems near impossible to fall asleep at any reasonable time, then I end up sleeping my day away. I live in upstate NY so there's not much summer and I hate wasting it that way!!

I will go to the dr tomorrow. My girl has the day off tomorrow and I think she will make me. Thank god for that.

I'm not sure what to raise my dose up to. And I regret when I do since I'm trying to stockpile - so I don't have to go anymore and can smoke. Weed would help with so many of my problems. I need to learn how to deal with reverting without weed. Thing is, I've tried so many ways. Everything!!! I could take 50 meds...or smoke a hit or two and be done :/

Raise the dose back up,,, I wonder how high I'll need to go.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:28 pm 
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Sooo, for all one of my readers... lol. I went to the dr today and it was a new dr. I had to get a new primary since I moved recently. He runs an urgent care but also has a regular practice with it. So I walked in to start primary care. Anyways, he seemed in a really big hurry. He prescribed me both Ambien and Lexapro... I really don't know how I feel about this, but I do have another appt in just under 2 weeks. Anyone have any thoughts on either of these along with sub? Off to do some research...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:34 pm 
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I was about to post this on Sublime's thread, but didn't want to hijack thread and ramble on and on (me, ramble?!)

"I've done the things you guys stopped at. It just gets so much worse from there.

I've stolen the pills from my parents medicine cabinet,until they're all gone (and gotten caught months, if not years later).
I've found the elderly person to con into giving you their script. Those two guys were my best friends for 3 years. I spent more time at their apartments than my own house sometimes. One of them became addicted with me, and there was about a 6 month period, maybe longer, where I stopped at his house every morning and we would try to find pills together after his script ran out, calling everyone we could think of. "Script Day" was better than Christmas. I'd load up on percs and later roxis, planning to have enough for a few days, a week, and then I'd treat myself just once... til they were gone.
I've gone to the street corners, meeting random homeless people or the other kinds that hang out on the street, in my not-so-big city, running around with them trying to find pills.
I've stolen probably tens of thousands of dollars from my job, and gotten away with it to this day, but I came DAMN close to getting caught many times - and kept doing it because I still "needed" it.
I've bought pills/dope with/from/for employees... what a great example. Of course they tried their best to keep me happy - who wants a dopesick boss?
I've wrecked a car, not even because I was high, by because I was SICK! And couldn't keep my eyes open, possibly from taking too much tramadol... I hit an elderly man and we both almost went off the road, into the lake, and drowned. Because of how much I binged the whole week prior, there was probably more oxy in my specimen than piss, but I passed field sobriety earlier and ended up with no charges. The night it happened, I said I never wanted to see another pill. Three days later, unbelievably dopesick and still in a lot of pain, I caved.
I continued to drive high and sometimes drunk as well, and have "come to" in various places: Once, speeding through trees and grass and telephone poles on the side of the road (I woke up just in time to avoid the tree I was about to drive into), on an on/off ramp that I apparently drove around for two hours (I called my now-gf while driving, saying I couldn't figure out how to get off the highway...), about 50 feet from hitting a cop car that was parked in the median... There are probably tons more incidents like these that I have forgotten.
I've stripped for pills... for the elderly man aforementioned and his brother. "

There's probably so much more I'm forgetting. And I'm in the middle of typing a message as well, but I most likely will add to this later.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:03 pm 
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You haven't done anything that we haven't heard before. Try to remember that you have a sickness, a disorder, some call it a disease. This disorder, untreated, drove you to do all those things. NA says, "although we are not responsible for our disease, we are responsible for our recovery."

Keep working on your recovery or you're working on a relapse.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:22 pm 
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Yes, sir....

In all serious, I am doing everything I can to work on my recovery this time around... I'm sick of this sick cycle carousel. I'm hoping that group and individual counseling will be the help that I needed.

And I'm sure I haven't done anything that you haven't heard before... It's just been helpful for me to talk things out here, especially since I don't start counseling til Tuesday...

Thanks again for listening... we will see how this week goes, but I'm excited!! I'm finally starting to feel like myself... Even if I am on what seems to meme a hell of a lot of meds right now, it is working. Talking things out is helping a lot as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:15 pm 
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Did you just call me sir? Are you nutty or something? LOL

Yes, yes.....vent and talk out whatever you need to. It does a person good to let all that crap go.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:53 pm 
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Sooo, I went to my sub dr yesterday and went to see my parents as well, since they live right there. My mom and I went out to a restaurant for a bit, and at one point we went outside to smoke. Her cigarettes were in my car, so I went to grab them. When I turned around, she was falling down in the grass. She landed on her wrist and probably sprained it (she's not the type to go to the hospital for something like that and there's no way to make her). She has mitral valve prolapse (a heart condition which causes her to be short of breath) and COPD among other health issues.

It took a while to get her back up, but finally we did, and we went back inside and finished up and left. When we got home, she told my dad, who could tell that she wasn't right. He was supposed to go to hunting camp tomorrow and wanted me to stay to keep an eye on her, but I had my girlfriend's car.

I called my gf and she actually started yelling at me, saying how she didn't see why it was important if she wouldn't go to the hospital and all this shit. I just gave up eventually, I mean it was her car, so I wasn't going to fight about that. Even though she could easily ride her bike to work, I ride my bike everywhere all the time. I guess I just thought she'd be a little more understanding.

When I finally got home, she was in bed. The way she acted, I figured she was still mad. I mean she actually told me to just move down there. She knows I can't stand living w my parents (I moved out at 18, before finishing high school), but I am worried about them. My mom needs heart surgery, but won't quit drinking, and they are afraid her liver won't make it through the surgery, so they won't do it til she stops drinking for a while.

My gf is the one who always reminds me about appts and stuff. I never remember anything on my own. So of course, she didn't remind me about my counseling appt this morning, and after getting home late, I slept through it. I'm so bummed about that, I really needed to go. I called the counselor and left her a message trying to explain all this quickly, hopefully she will give me another chance. But I already got kicked out of this place for missing too many appts, and was just allowed to come back after six months.

Ugh...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:07 am 
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Do as you wish, but i'd say to you. - Find your own way, your way that you think that will work, to tamper down the pills. Take as much as you are not sick, gradually reducing them, so you can act like you are sober (as near as you can).

Continue to get Subo's (4mg should be fine) and smoke some weed if it helps. Not every day, not much too.

You should be fine. When you feel ready. reduce everything slow as you wish until you can finnaly stop. And forget past all that. Be who you where b4 you start those bamn pills.

You will end up, probably, killing yourself because these pills are cursed when you take more than you should. And what they are made for treating as well. So think this. I have this condition? I'm ill and i am taking pills for treatment?

I don't think so, but now you are because you abused them. I wish you all the best and try to find new friends. it's not easy but there are good people out there. Sorry to say this, i know they were your friends(and still are) but these guyz went down with you. I ignoledge that now my self too. Friends are not a good influence sometimes.

Take care!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:52 pm 
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I have one friend from my pill days, who has a script he gets rid of once a month, who I should probably get rid of, but he's a for real friend. Maybe the only for real friend I have. He always wanted to see me do better for myself and is glad that I am and is helping me find/buy a car etc.

The addiction counselor is a huge joke, will not call me back. My new dr office was also a huge joke, that dr I saw the first time doesn't see regular patients, as the dr I saw the second time was one of the most judgmental pricks I ever met (saying a lot there). I'm just going back to my dr in my old town. This place called me to tell me to go to counseling where it was already going, and for a rheumatologist appt in the end of December... but they heard a heart murmur when I was there and never called me with the referral to get the echocardiogram, so I didn't find out about the appt til the day before, and had job interviews set up the whole day. I guess my heart doesn't matter if I'm an addict?

Just gotta keep plugging along...


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