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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:27 am 
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hi im a 39 year old female and any advise would be very helpful only new at this so i will start with how i got myself in this mess in the first place i had been abusing pills for 8 years started out using valium and sleeping pills after my brother past away god bless his soul and i do not blame him in any way for the situation that im in today xo.. his death was out of the blue and such a shock for me i could not cope with the grieve with out some sort of sedative or sleeping pills to cut a long story short along the way i started abusing them and needed more and more to fell the same affect then i discovered codeine and liked the way it made me feel then went to oxycontin abusing 80mg a day on and off for 1 year when ever i could get it which took me to a new higher level so ended up abusing valium, sleeping pills and opiates all at the same time i finely decided i needed help that's when i was put on the suboxone program 20mg a day for the last 18 months iv had my relapses abusing valium and sleeping pills while on suboxone along with the same problems some other people have had from what i have read and experienced about subs, don't want to be on subs anymore so for the last 3 and a half months i have been tapering down reducing 2mg every 2 weeks i went from 20mg now down to 6mg in my first week of day 5 started to get really bad lower back pain body stiffness all over and not copping to well with depression along with agitation so iv had to go back up to 8mg and i don't really know what to expect now that i cant get under 8mg my plan was to reduce every 2 weeks until i got down to 2 mg and then jump off it now im starting to think this is wishful thinking and don't really know what im in for any lower then 8mg, going by what i was feeling on 6mg im starting to feel really scared that this is going to be a lot harder then i thought. any advise or thoughts would be very helpful as i am scared and don't know what to do next a part of me just wants to jump off at the 8 mg and just suffer it out but as i said i really don't know what to expect or how hard or long the withdraws will be around ,his is my first time on suboxone so please it would really help if some one with more experience could some how guide me as to the best way to go next. thank you for listening and god bless...


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:53 am 
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Hi ginnest and welcome to the forum. You just tapered down a bit too quickly, in my opinion. Although it's generally accepted that the ceiling is at or around 4 mg, everyone is different and your ceiling might be closer to 6 or 8 mg.

I would suggest you try every other day dosing to get lower. Try 8 mg one day, then 6, then 8 then 6, etc etc. This will get you stabilized at about 7 mg. Then you can do the same to get you down lower. It's obviously a much slower taper, but it will help you to suffer less.

It's normal for people to have to slow down their taper when they get at or near the ceiling.

Regardless of how you decide to finish tapering, I wouldn't suggest you jump from 8 mg. It will likely cause significant acute and post-acute withdrawals. The slower you go, the less of both you should have.

Good luck with your continuing taper and again, welcome.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:01 am 
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Hi and welcome! Hat gave you some great advice, the only thing I would add is jumping at 2mg is considered a high dose to jump from. You would likely have withdrawl symptoms for some time jumping from 2mg. Most people try to get down to the .25 mark and even lower.

Sub is a very powerful medication and is used to treat pain at doses of .2mg. Going this low will extend your taper quite a bit but it will be worth it to not suffer needlessly. This is just what I would do and we will be here to support you no matter what you decide. I would suggest reading thru the stopping sub section, there is a lot of useful info on how to taper there. Good luck!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:20 pm 
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Sorry to hear you were a little surprised at the onset of symptoms. I know that can be frustrating.

I highly recommend you change your approach to tapering off Suboxone. What will happen if it takes you another year to get off Sub? The world will probably not end. I understand wanting to be done, but this takes a while, no matter how hard you push it. I was on Sub 5.5 years and took up to 32 mg/day. For a long time, my dose was much lower, and I started my final taper from 8 mg. The final 2 mg were the tough part, and I gave it nearly a year. I jumped from 1/16 mg and am so glad I tapered that low, as it was easy to stop.

Listen to your body. Right now, you've dropped very quickly and it is catching up with you. You cannot plan your taper out IMO, because then you run into plateaus and have to go back up and you end up feeling bad about it. Suboxone stacks in your system, so you are starting to feel what it is like to be at this dose. Pushing down from a dose you are not even comfortable at is just not a good idea. If you can just slow down and focus on living a healthy life, exercising, hobbies, etc., you will make the whole process of tapering way easier on yourself.

You absolutely can taper all the way off Suboxone. It does take time to do it, though. If you can accept that, you will be much happier during the process.

Best of luck!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:59 pm 
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thank you guys for your advice i will see my doctor as soon as i can and suggest trying it that way and see how i go,my doctor told me that i would have no problems reducing 2mg every 2 weeks and then said when i get down to 2mg i could just hope off without any discomfort i had no idea that i would have to reduce slowly from 2mg to 1 then slowly to none wow misinformed by doctor makes me wonder how much some doctors really know about suboxone..thanks very much again for your advice and support nice to know there is somewhere and someone i can talk to. CHEERS


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:19 pm 
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Yes, it is an all too common problem with some sub docs. They simply don't understand how powerful this drug is. In higher doses you probably would have no issues to reduce by 2mg a week. I can assure you that you will have withdrawls and for quite some time if you were to jump at 2mg (unless you are a rare case). The withdrawl wouldn't be as bad as a full agonist but would last a great deal longer.

Like Ladder said, slow down and don't drop again until you have been comfortable for a while. When you get down to around the 2mg mark you should only decrease by about 10% but never more than 25%. Also at this point you will want to switch to the 2mg strips because they are much easier to cut into the tiny pieces.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:11 pm 
I've heard doctors say you can jump at 2 mg with "relatively little discomfort."

Doctors often lie to addicts.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:26 pm 
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Just my view, but I don't think "Drs lie to addicts". I think the one's that say this are uneducated in Suboxone and likely believe it to be the case. This doesn't mean I excuse it, any decent Dr should do their homework and understand the medications they are prescribing. Them not taking the time to understand how to properly taper of sub is a big problem and sadly because of the world's view of addicts it probably won't change,at least any time soon.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:45 pm 
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hello all, well i spoke to my sub doctor and asked him if i could do 6 one day then 8 the next day and doctor said no so i just have to go back up to 8mg and stay on that for a month so this doctor asked me where i got the idea from to do it that way so told him i joined a sub forum and he said don't go on the internet because its all bad story's and not to beleave every thing you read on the net and still saying i can jump off at 2mg, felt like he thought i had abused drugs over Christmas so feel really pissed off at how ignorant some doctors can be would rather get advice from this forum then listen to most doctors here in Australia just think they are behind here so at least im back up to 8mg also is it the normal price to pay 5 dollars a dose when i go in only once a week to pick up 6 take ways just wondering. Cheers!!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:51 pm 
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$5 for 8mg of sub is actually a good price, I believe here they run around $9 a pill.

I hate to give advice against a Dr so instead I am just going to tell you what I would do in your shoes. I would keep my Dr prescribing me 8mg as long as possible but continue to taper on my own and save up all the sub I could possibly save. It sounds like your ignorant Dr is going to force you to jump off sub at 2mg and if at all avoidable you do not want to do that. If you acquire a back stock of sub you could continue to taper lower. Again this is just what I would do, I hope he wisest up.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:12 pm 
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I would probably do the same thing Breezy would do. I'd let my doctor write me for the 8 mg and I'd continue with a very slow taper and just stock up on those extra subs. Then I'd continue with my taper when the time comes and he decides in all his holiness to cut me off at 2 mg. Again, this is just what I would do, like Breezy said.

I can't stress this enough: I don't want to encourage you to go against your doctor's wishes. Neither of us is trying to do that. But speaking for myself, I know that I understand a great deal about this medication and I wholeheartedly disagree with this doctor's approach, therefore, for me, I would have to go against his taper plan for me.

But you aren't me! You must do what feels right for you. If that's staying at 8 for awhile and thinking on things, then do that. If it's sticking with the doc's orders, then that's fine, too. Or if you want to strike out on your own and continue doing your own taper, well, then we'll be here to try to support you in any way we can.

I hope this helps you, even if only a little bit. You do have an option or two. And depending on how soon you want to be off of suboxone, you also have the option of finding and transferring to a new sub doctor to help you with your taper only.

Take care and please do keep us posted.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:01 pm 
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hi guys yeah that sounds like a good idea to stay on the 8mg for the month until i feel a little normal and then "make out i need to go back up to 10mg" while still trying to drop to 6mg and so on, making sure iv got a fair amount of sub tucked away for when i do have to jump off at 2mg that's the only way i think its going to work for me thanks for the good advice guys...wow i better shut up about how much i pay for suds:) i still think it should be free the chemist seem to set the price to what ever they want.thanks again for the advice and support very much appreciated.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:19 pm 
Breezy_Ann wrote:
$5 for 8mg of sub is actually a good price, I believe here they run around $9 a pill.

I hate to give advice against a Dr so instead I am just going to tell you what I would do in your shoes. I would keep my Dr prescribing me 8mg as long as possible but continue to taper on my own and save up all the sub I could possibly save. It sounds like your ignorant Dr is going to force you to jump off sub at 2mg and if at all avoidable you do not want to do that. If you acquire a back stock of sub you could continue to taper lower. Again this is just what I would do, I hope he wisest up.


I have received countless emails from mods on this site telling me not to advise anyone to go against their doctors orders. It's interesting to see how the rules of this forum are applied.

To the OP: you should consider why your doc insists you take a higher dose than you want to. Greed is a motivating factor for many actions, and I honestly believe that RB has paid off (though maybe not with cold hard cash) doctors to insist upon high doses of brand name Suboxone.

8mg of Sub is a LOT stronger than your habit (you said was 80mg oxycodone every other day). Meaning, you are taking a higher dose of opiates than when you were using!!

Good luck OP


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:21 am 
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hi ironic with the oxy i wasn't taking 80mg every single day i was more like taking it for three to five days at a time on and off with in a month or when ever i could get my hands on some , when i wasn't taking oxy i was using valium, sleeping pills and other codeine base pills until i got the next lot some times abusing all at once. i also think greed is the motivation its all about the money more then helping people with drug problems the pharmacy's seem to be able to increase the price when ever they want to ,wish i knew way back then what i know now but its to late and just have to try and get off this drug.CHEERS!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:44 pm 
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hi forum,my last post was 6 weeks ago when i was struggling to drop from 8mg to 6mg a day...since then iv been 1 week on 6mg and doing ok i think for me that going back up to 10mg and staying on that for 3 weeks have some how been a help in getting me down to 6mg a day ATM my back problems have subsided but still having problems with sweating,skin burning,no energy,mood swings along with some problems sleeping but all are manageable and are not half as bad as before,hoping this update may help someone...cheers forum :)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 pm 
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Just take your time.

Is it possible you can reduce just 1mg? 8mg to 6mg is a 25% reduction in your dose.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:57 pm 
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hi tearj3rker how are you im still on the tablets and find it hard to cut 1mg off the 8s my Dr is taking me off at 2mgs and at the moment im prescribed 12mg a day but only taking 6mg as i am saving all my 2mgs for when Dr takes me off the program although i would rather drop 1mg at a time but i can only seem to cut the 8 pill into 4 pieces...also do you think i will have problems when i get down to 2mg then stay on 1mg till the saved pills run out..thanks for your advise cheers..


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