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 Post subject: Need Advise...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:15 am 
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Hey guys, I am new here and very happy that I have came across this site. I won't bore you with details...just will hit on the basics of my story and hopefully pull in some good advise about my decision to talk to a doctor about getting on suboxone. I have been addicted to opiates for the past 2 years. It started with a pill called nucynta, when I got out of hand with those and landed myself in the er with panic attacks after much to much use, I moved on to percocets and whatever opiate I could get my hands on that didn't have a norepinepherine reuptake inhibitor. I came to absolutely love and then need opiates in my life and couldn't really function without them. Getting out of bed was a real chore if I knew I didn't have anything, and then my whole day would be spent trying my hardest to get something...I was taking about 12-16 10/325 percocets a day or whatever I could manage, but that was usually about my average. Once my tolerance grew and I became very scared over the health of my liver, I upgraded to black tar heroin. Never shot it, but smoked it off of foil for a bit.....then, I really didn't like what I was becoming, so I decided to quit cold turkey and I did...It was HELL the first 5 days or so, as I'm sure you guys know, but it got better and I was so happy that I had beat it, I swear, I was high on that feeling alone. I started running again, which has always been my first true love, and I felt pretty damn good. Fast forward 1 month to now, yeah, I'm not feeling to great anymore. Still running and going to the gym but that wears off....my thoughts about using are visiting me much more often then right after that first 5 days and sometimes, it is ALL I can think about. I'm kind of going nuts. I'm a mom of 3 little girls, and I'm 31 years old. I want to be able to enjoy my girls and my life without constantly thinking about using....even to the point where I have planned out my relapse. I am having dreams about it, not able to sleep very well at all, and my crankiness is becoming more and more my set mood. I really do want to stay clean deep down but I just cannot stop these cravings and thoughts I'm having....it's like I'm here, but not really and that is not fair to my girls....at all. I called my insurance and asked about suboxone coverage and they gave me the # to a doc and I'm going to see her tomorrow....I want to get some feedback fom you guys. I know subs are used to get through the wds, and I'm already past that but I feel like I'm in serious danger of a relapse and I have also heard that suboxone can really minimize cravings. I just want a normal life....and I thought that once I went through the physical wds, I would be able to handle the mental ones but its really not working out too well for me. Is it a good idea to start on suboxone? Please help...I just want to feel normal and NOT go back to where I was....I never imagined that there could be something I hated so much but adored at the same time and almost cannot resist....I feel torn and angry and depressed.

I would also like to ad that my father was a heroin addict for 20 years and on methadone for 10.... I want to try and stay away from methadone as it may just be too much like H.... too tempting maybe??


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:22 am 
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caligirl52 wrote:
Hey guys, I am new here and very happy that I have came across this site. I won't bore you with details...just will hit on the basics of my story and hopefully pull in some good advise about my decision to talk to a doctor about getting on suboxone. I have been addicted to opiates for the past 2 years. It started with a pill called nucynta, when I got out of hand with those and landed myself in the er with panic attacks after much to much use, I moved on to percocets and whatever opiate I could get my hands on that didn't have a norepinepherine reuptake inhibitor. I came to absolutely love and then need opiates in my life and couldn't really function without them. Getting out of bed was a real chore if I knew I didn't have anything, and then my whole day would be spent trying my hardest to get something...I was taking about 12-16 10/325 percocets a day or whatever I could manage, but that was usually about my average. Once my tolerance grew and I became very scared over the health of my liver, I upgraded to black tar heroin. Never shot it, but smoked it off of foil for a bit.....then, I really didn't like what I was becoming, so I decided to quit cold turkey and I did...It was HELL the first 5 days or so, as I'm sure you guys know, but it got better and I was so happy that I had beat it, I swear, I was high on that feeling alone. I started running again, which has always been my first true love, and I felt pretty damn good. Fast forward 1 month to now, yeah, I'm not feeling to great anymore. Still running and going to the gym but that wears off....my thoughts about using are visiting me much more often then right after that first 5 days and sometimes, it is ALL I can think about. I'm kind of going nuts. I'm a mom of 3 little girls, and I'm 31 years old. I want to be able to enjoy my girls and my life without constantly thinking about using....even to the point where I have planned out my relapse. I am having dreams about it, not able to sleep very well at all, and my crankiness is becoming more and more my set mood. I really do want to stay clean deep down but I just cannot stop these cravings and thoughts I'm having....it's like I'm here, but not really and that is not fair to my girls....at all. I called my insurance and asked about suboxone coverage and they gave me the # to a doc and I'm going to see her tomorrow....I want to get some feedback fom you guys. I know subs are used to get through the wds, and I'm already past that but I feel like I'm in serious danger of a relapse and I have also heard that suboxone can really minimize cravings. I just want a normal life....and I thought that once I went through the physical wds, I would be able to handle the mental ones but its really not working out too well for me. Is it a good idea to start on suboxone? Please help...I just want to feel normal and NOT go back to where I was....I never imagined that there could be something I hated so much but adored at the same time and almost cannot resist....I feel torn and angry and depressed.

I would also like to ad that my father was a heroin addict for 20 years and on methadone for 10.... I want to try and stay away from methadone as it may just be too much like H.... too tempting maybe??







Hi Caligirl52 and welcome to the forum!

It is great to see you wanting to get off the merry -go- round and get your life back together. I am proud you found a doctor who prescribes subs, this will be great for you. I could certainly identify with you saying how you felt when you woke up and had no pills and would do anything to get some more...sounds just like me.

You are lucky you found a sub doc this early in your life...you are young and have your whole life ahead of you...I only wish I had suboxone when I was in my 30's. I have a 29 year addiction to hydrocodone...tried everything to quit..cold turkey, treatment centers, AA,NA , counselors, and nothing worked. I also understand your mental status..when you say it is all you can think about..well that was me as well. I found a subdoc about 2 years ago..was afraid, angry and scared.
After I go into the office and they gave me a subutex under my tongue it was about 20 minutes before I began to feel wonderful...I had been out of hydros for a while and the first dose made me high and I felt the euphoria from the drug. It lasted all day..I just felt so good and normal for a change. After that first dose I never felt high again, just normal. I had absolutely no cravings for my drugs, which was a miracle. I didn't even think about them. The Dr. started me on 16mg. and after a short while reduced me to 8mg. which I am on now. I never thought life could be this good. The desire to use is simply gone. I want to do things again..not stay and home and hide out. I feel like I did when i was a child ..free and happy. I think you are doing exactly the right thing..your life is going to change for the better and those thoughts of using will leave you completely. I wish you the best of luck and please keep us posted to see how you are doing.

Sincerely,
Slipper

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"For evil to flourish, all that is needed is for good people to do nothing." >> Edmund Burke


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:24 am 
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Hi caligirl,

Before you get on Suboxone, I wanted you to know that it is an opiate too, although it's what's called a partial agonist. The perc's and H you were taking are full agonist, they fully stimulate the opiate receptors in your brain, but Suboxone, being a partial agonist, only partially stimulates those receptors. For many of us, that partial stimulation of our opiate receptors is enough to make our cravings go away completely, but there are still some of us who get cravings while on Suboxone.

A proper response to your question is a bit difficult because you're already off of opiates. Many on this forum would encourage you to get on Suboxone, some will tell you not to.....I'm trying to walk a fine line between both and just give you information. Most people who come to this forum are on opiates and can not stop, they have or are ruining their lives and Suboxone helps them to break that cycle. You're a bit of a special case in that you're off opiates, but now really struggling.

I have no doubt that Suboxone would help eliminate most or all of your cravings, but if you ever decide to stop taking Suboxone, you will have to go through wd from it. Many here decide to taper off of Suboxone and that helps to minimize their wd greatly. But, even if you get on Suboxone and don't do any recovery work, when you get off of Suboxone, you're gonna probably be right back where you are now, having cravings.

I think what you neglected to do is to incorporate some kind of recovery into your life once you quit using drugs.

In your case, I can certainly see two angles. #1---get on Suboxone, halt the cravings, work some kind of recovery and go from there. #2---start working your ass off on recovery right now and start getting those cravings under control.

I hope some other members swing by and give their input.

I just thought of a third option, it's called Naltrexone. Naltrexone will block any opiate you take. Naltrexone is a pure opiate antagonist, it occupies your receptors and does not stimulate them at all, as far as I know, there is no wd coming off of Naltrexone. Also, because Naltrexone doesn't stimulate the opiate receptor, many still report having cravings while on Naltrexone, but if they give into those cravings and use, nothing happens and for many of them that cools down future cravings.

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 Post subject: Ditto
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:05 pm 
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Romeo said exactly what I was going to say so it saved me some typing.

The hardest part of staying off opiates is the mental cravings. Yes, Suboxone does rid one of those but like you already heard, you will be right back where you are now if and when you decide to stop. It takes roughly a year w/o any opiates to be free of the mental cravings. (from what I've read) Personally, I don't have that kind of experience but would gladly trade places with you today. I'd sit my arse down in a 12 step meeting or go see an addiction therapist to work on myself. It is said that it takes at least 90 days to break a habit. At least give it that long if you haven't already tried.

Plus, your doctor may be like mine who believes no one should be on Suboxone for more than six months. The tapering starts the 2nd month.

Do you really want to go backwards and take an opiate? It may be the best way for you. Only you can judge for yourself. But one way or another you will have to face the demon of the craving head on. There is no easy or magic way to get 'er done.

If you have already decided to go onto Sub, then I wish you the best and yes, you will feel much better. Just make sure he starts you on a fairly low dose like 1 or 2mgs to start. You might possibly get sick with anything higher. It is VERY powerful.

Good Health no matter what you decide. And Welcome to the Forum!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Thanks so much for your input you guys....I appreciate it and am really on the fence with this one....I did go a little crazy yesterday, and I searched violently for anything I may have left behind in any of my secret little places. I ended up finding a little top piece of a bag and yes, it had a tiny bit of tar left on it. I felt almost like I was gonna cry and quickly got out some foil, cut a straw, breathed gently on that bag and stamped it nice and hard on the foil and it was just enough to get the taste and smell of that H that I have been craving sooooooo badly. I felt like complete shit after that but I couldnt control it. Today, I called a treatment center and the dude advised me to not go on subs, despite my little slip up, but to check myself into treatment for 28 days cuz its so hard to get and stay clean at home on your own....well, I just cant check out for that long..it is not possible, at all. I told him I would still think it over and definitely check out an na meeting but I still have the apt with the doc for the subs... I just dont know what to do. This is the shittiest spot to be in, I swear. I definitely am going to talk to someone.... get some counseling and I definitely dont wanna go through wds again getting off the subs, but its almost like they are coming back....I havent slept really the last 2 nights and my anxiety is thru the roof... I just wanna feel calm. So pissed at myself for putting myself here, especially after watching everything my dad went through as a heroin then methadone addict.... depressing and consuming.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:05 pm 
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In my opinion, recovery is learning how to deal with life without turning to drugs. We addicts SUCK at dealing with our emotions. We run from any pain or discomfort like it was gonna kill us. Until you learn how to deal with your emotions without turning to drugs, you're gonna crave. To me, recovery is not necessarily NA or AA or a 28 day rehab stint, recovery is learning how to deal with ourselves not taking drugs. Those programs help us learn how to deal with ourselves, but they're not the only path forward. There are self help books out there about addiction, there are individual addiction counselors and then some people are able to quit with no assistance....I think the people who quit without assistance do their own recovery, they just may not be aware of it? If you're willing to take a long, deep, hard look into yourself REAL soon, recovery may get you to where you want to be.

The fact that you used yesterday is of great concern. Like Rule said, maybe go on a low dose of Suboxone (1 or 2mg) and see how that works. If you start at a low dose and you're able to stay fairly low, you should be able to taper off fairly easily when you decide to.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the absolute best of luck and I hope you decide to keep us updated.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:32 am 
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Don't be so hard on yourself.. You know that logic goes out the window with us.. People don't understand that, but I'm pretty sure everyone here does..

The people here have given you great advice-especially in regards to the warnings about suboxone and future detox.. You're in a tough spot, I feel for you.. There are DEFINITELY risks in going back on the subs.. But sometimes you have to look at the risks associated with NOT treating your disease.. From what you said it sounds like you're headed for a relapse.. If that is the case I know that I personally would get on a low dose of sub as soon as possible-especially given your family history.. Only you can make that choice though..

I applaud you for being proactive with this- I wish I would have been able to do exactly what you're doing so many times in the past. I know it's so hard right now, but you really are on the right track- just by coming here and talking about it as well as calling your dr.. Good luck- pulling for you


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Interesting that you got advise to go to rehab. I'm not a big fan of rehabs -- I think their success rate is pretty low, and that medical-assisted treatment is the way to go. However as Romeo or someone else said, you need to be aware (as I'm sure you are) that Suboxone is an opiate. Unless you get a doc who holds you to a limited period of treatment, you may need to face the fact that you will be on maintenance for a while. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing -- methadone maintenance has kept me clean. Good luck.

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