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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:38 am 
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Update

604 : Yeah It seems abit much , I dont think I need 16MG a day. I know he's the doctor (and he's good) but I am the patient too and he's gonna have to think about a readjustment based on my report to him. My head feels abit cloudy.



It's been soooo long since Iv'e taken Suboxone I forgot how my symptoms went.

Sleep: Im having VIVID dreams and it seems after each one, I wake up toss and turn and then go back to sleep. Then another VIVID dream. Can't stay asleep and the dreams are WILD. I dont know if 7-8 years ago when I was still smoking pot back then (Not now) it helped me sleep straight thru the night or what. Is there any legal way to promote sleep on Suboxone with no interactions? I mean atleast I got some sleep but I need to know if it will change or I can make it better.


Headache: I read a post about when the tablet is totally dissolved to spit the excess saliva out that it helps with headaches. I tried it this morning and took it around 7:10, so far so good. Ill let you know.

Upset stomach/Appetite: Again I don't know if the pot helped back then with my appetite/upset stomach. Any way to correct this?


My head feels abit cloudy too, I dont know if these symptoms are just the Suboxone working into my system and/or it will go away with time and/or a readjustment of the dose (lower).



Thanks,
Damian


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:49 am 
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Sounds like you have a good plan in place. I like the nicotine analogy - it's how I always see it. And yes, you can take aspirin, ibuprofen, supplements...most of the usual stuff you can still take with suboxone. It's anything that can also depress your respiratory system that you should look out for - like benzos or alcohol.

You and your doctor will figure out what dose works for you. I'm sure you'll find what works for you within a few days. Keep up the good work.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:52 am 
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Damion - I started my sub treatment on Thursday, and my Dr. Prescribed me Vistaril for insomnia associated with the subs.
Vistaril isnt a benzo or any other controlled substance. Typically it's used for itching caused by allergies, Motion sickness etc.
I took one on Friday night and never slept better! I don't know if that's the route you want to take, but I thought I'd throw the info out there. Good Luck & congrats to you for taking your life back :)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Thank you HatMaker for your kind words of encouragement and info !!

I felt alittle crappy this morning but It's understandable and it took awhile after I took my morning dose to get stable today. My brain/body is going threw alot of changes and the doesage will be worked out. I just have to put in the same time/energy (Money too) that I did to abuse the medication and get high and put it into this Suboxone program and be accurate with my feelings mental/physical while Im tapering and he will guide me through it.


Headache : I spit the excess saliva out and that seemed to keep the headache away. Thank you to who ever figured that out and/or to Romeo for posting it.

Sleep: You think the sleep will get better when my brain/body chemicals even out and the Suboxone doesage's even out? Don't get me wrong I love dreaming and to remember the dreams in the morning but the dreams are weird and Im always running from something or something is wrong. Basically what I call "Anxiety" dreams.

Nausea/appetite : Still working on this , eating small portions and bland food. My body wants to eat but it's like I have to force myself to eat.


All in all I think I made a good decision for getting on Suboxone. I know it's weird to get on Suboxone for longer( possible 6 months to a year) than my abuse period ( 1 month) was but I know this method works for me . Who knows I might do better than last time and taper quickly. But well see, Im not going to rush it too much. I know for %100 I *WILL* not fall off and relapse. If I never broke my leg and went on the stupid Perks this would of not happened. Next time I will crew asprin and deal with the pain. Me tapering off slowly is so I have the least withdrawals and stay comfortable. On the other hand I dont wanna be on it any longer than my body will need because of depression, mood swings and other side effects that pop up with long term Suboxone usage. Im rambling again sorry :) !


Well Ill keep updating and let you know how I do step by step. Ill try to do it day by day. Because if someone is in the same position as me and is on the fence about Suboxone this might give them some insight on how it works. I know everyone is different so don't just read my thread and hop on Suboxone, but rather use it as a collective of information to make a educated decision to find out if Suboxone will work for you. Because after I complete this 2nd Suboxone program it proves that with the drive to want to be clean , the right doctor and some support(family,friends and/or group meetings) you can take back what is rightfully yours.

Your LIFE....


Thanks once again !!
Damian


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Hey Gettingthere !!

Cool were a day apart, lets kick this in the butt and do it !! I know we can do it but It's soooo nice to have these forums this time around to talk and learn. Big time thanks to the Doc who started this Forum/Site. And it nice to have a direct line of communication to people like you and others going threw it too(Or went threw it). Because lets face it, this ride isnt going to be a walk in the park (But a hell of alot better than cold turkey) and it is in those times that I will think of you and others here , and it will help me to stay strong !!! And I hope it will do the same for you.

Awesome Im going to do some research about Vistaril and check it out. Sleep for me is the number one factor on tapering. To be able to recharge and wake up ready to kick butt and take names is amazing. Did he prescribe any other "Comfort" meds?
Not that I need it right now but I like to do research and get a game plan before I do anything. Can the Doc Im seeing now for the Suboxone prescription prescribe the Vistaril or do I have to goto my primary Doc to ask him if its right for me?


Keep it up !!
Damian


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Quote:
I know it's weird to get on Suboxone for longer...than my abuse period


I don't think it's weird at all. Have you ever read Dr. Junig's story? His opiate addiction lasted something like 6 months. And he spent years in treatment for it (maybe in and out, I don't recall specifically). Addiction is so powerful that it really DOES require that much time to counteract all the shit that we picked up during active use. I honestly believe you're doing the right thing.

Spend this time working on all parts of YOU and it will be time well spent. I truly believe that. Be the best person you can be and you'll be in the best place possible when you come off sub. :mrgreen:

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:06 am 
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Well it's day 3

Sleep got alittle better, so did my appetite/stomach. I guess my body was getting used to the transition. I think I can half this daily dose of 16mg down to 8mg a day. Will ask him in 12 days.

I talked to my Doc on the phone and told him I would like to try and match my last time coming off Suboxone which was around 6 months. I also notice on some sites regarding clinical studies on Suboxone that a 30 week (6 Months) is a common program and it yields better results rather than a shorter program. (Everyone is different though)
When I talked to my Doc today and told him I would like to do a 6 month program , like I did the first time I used and stopped Suboxone which went smooth for me. He said that he no longer tries a 6 month period but rather atleast a year. Now I have lots of faith in my Doc *BUT* heres the thing....



Last time I went on Suboxone for a 3-4 year addiction with sniffing Oxycontin 80-320MG a day, I did a 6 Month program and it went fairly smooth. At the end I had to stay on a .25-.50 dose for awhile then jump but it was all manageable. And the next 7-8 years were totally Awesome!!! And in that time I quit smoking Cigarettes/pot and Drinking too, and was on a health kick.



Now I just got done using for alittle over a month of Oxycodone 90-210MG a day.


Should I tell him I want to try a 6 Month Program first? I mean worse comes to worse I can just taper longer for a extra 6 Months if it doesn't work. But I dont think I need a year and don't think it should be my first goal. I might even be able to do it in less than 6 months, but I don't want to rush it too much. I'm looking at it like " don't fix it if it ain't broken" kind of way.


Is it true that 8mg Suboxone = 400mg Oxycodone !?
Is it normal to start at a high dose of Suboxone at first to stabilize?
You would think when I told him my daily habit for a month was 90-210mg a day, he would try to match that with the same dosage of Suboxone?

That would be like 4-6mg Suboxone (200-300mg Oxycodone) a day. Not a 16mg Suboxone (800mg Oxycodone) a day, if the above is true.


Thanks again !
DamianJP


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:08 am 
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Hi,

My opinion would be to try the 6 month program whilst it worked for you the last time.

Also I find that drinking ginger and lemon infusions helps with my stomach issues - the more gingery the better it really settles that upset stomach/sticky feeling for me. Not sure what brands you have in America but I find Twinnings is the best.

Good luck

X c x


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:09 pm 
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Hey Babydoll !!!

Yeah ....when I sit down with him in about 2 weeks Im gonna tell him I would like to set a goal of 6 Months. Also to see if I can cut my day dose down to 8mg instead of 16mg.

Today I feel good, got alot done around the yard and worked on my car abit. This Suboxone is a LIFE saver and I know I should be good in 6 Months. Im gonna google it but anyone know who came up with Suboxone and figured out it could be used to help addicts get off of LIFE stealing drugs? He/She deserves much Thanks and Praise.

Im gonna try the ginger and lemon infusions, it's gotten alot better but the more "Tools" I have in my arsenal the better.


Thank you BabyDoll,
Damian


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:37 am 
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6 month is considered short term treatment and short term treatment, studies show, has an extremely high rate of relapse. I'd say it's WAY too soon for you to even be thinking about when you want to stop taking it. You're not even on a stable maintenance dose yet. It's my opinion that this time would be best spent on YOU and preparing to be sub-free, not perseverating on when WILL you be sub-free.

As for trying to convert sub doses to other full agonists, you cannot do a linear conversion over the ceiling (~ 4 mg), which is about equal to 30 mg of methadone. After the ceiling, the potency of sub DOES NOT go up, so you can't just keep upping the power of the sub dose. Don't start trying to figure out the numbers, just find the dose that works for you. You're only second guessing yourself and your decision to start sub, in my opinion.

Yes, sub will probably raise your tolerance - it's a strong medication. But it's a tool for us to use in our recovery. It's not a free ride, it's just a tool and we're still left to do the hard work.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:47 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
6 month is considered short term treatment and short term treatment, studies show, has an extremely high rate of relapse. I'd say it's WAY too soon for you to even be thinking about when you want to stop taking it. You're not even on a stable maintenance dose yet. It's my opinion that this time would be best spent on YOU and preparing to be sub-free, not perseverating on when WILL you be sub-free.
...Don't start trying to figure out the numbers, just find the dose that works for you.... It's not a free ride, it's just a tool and we're still left to do the hard work.


If you can be sub free and stay away from opiates then great. I think the studies also show that not every person relapsed. There are exceptions. I think everyone is different. I hope that you are the exception. The question is if you want to chance it or not. I do agree with Hatmaker in regards to the fact that you are over thinking things. Just let the chips fall. I wouldn't push myself in either direction. Do exactly what you said you are doing, talk everything over with your Dr and both of you come up with a plan.

I wish you the best and enjoyed reading your progress.
Thanks
Dana


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:09 pm 
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Hello everyone

Yes Iv'e been known to over think stuff so Ill just go with the flow. Like I said I did 6 Months last time and it went very smooth.
At the end (the jump) was alittle work but nothing I cant handle. As far as me Relapsing , it will not happen. Im %110 sure of this. My only goal is to get stable ( which I feel fine right now,%100 no cravings) and then wean off the Suboxone so I have the least amount of WDs. Im not sure if the longer I stay on the Suboxone, the harder it will be make the Jump process or make the WDs worse at the end.

Thank you all for helping me out and answering all the questions/thoughts. :)



Thanks,
DamianJP


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:11 pm 
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It's been 9 days... of 8mg in the morning and 8mg at evening.

Everything is going as planned. Everything is stabilized and is going good.

Sleep is much better (not 100%). Iv'e been drinking a Bob Marley Mellow Mood on nights I feel abit restless or have alot on my mind around the time I goto sleep. Check it out...
http://www.marleysmellowmood.com/

Appetite is also back.

Every now and then Ill feel abit rough in the mornings and it takes a extra bit to get going, but after that it smmoth sailing threw out the day.

I find myself getting abit edgy . Like making a mountain out of a mole hill about something that went wrong. Instead of letting it go and dealing with it , I stayed pissed off for abit until I calmed myself down and let it go. I don't know if it's the Suboxone or just me in general , mabey abit of both. Which ever it is Ill deal with it :) But I thought I would share incase someone else goes through this too with the Suboxone.


Like I said next step is to report back to my Doc and form a good taper plan. I can't wait to see him and tell him everything and also to hear his thoughts. Also to see what plan he will have for me.



Damian


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