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 Post subject: Need Advice
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:35 am 
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Not sure where to post this? So I thought I would post here. This is my third week on suboxone and I am not able to figure out a way to take it as prescribed. I am still in full blown addict mode and taking more. I am prescribed 16mg a day. I feel like I have just replaced one drug for another. When I am feeling stressed at work I take an extra film. If I am bored at home I take a film etc.. Just like I did with my pain pill addiction. Suboxone is a great medication and it instantly took my withdrawals away when I first started, but now I am wondering if I am a good candidate for it? Even though I know it does nothing above 16 mg I am still a rat in a cage wanting to take more. I see my Dr. next Thursday and I am down to my last 8mg film. I am ashamed of where I am and not sure what to do? Do I call my Doc's office and try and get in early? Do I just suffer until next Thursday? I also start my out patient rehab next week ( Two 3hr group sessions weekly) I want to stop the addictive behavior but I feel lost. Has anybody else gone through this at first? Thoughts? Ideas? Thanks for taking the time to read this post.. Happy Friday!

Brett


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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:14 pm 
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Well u definitely got to decide on weather to call ur dr or not. Since u have only been a patient for 3 weeks, it is possible that ur dr would sympathize with u. But I have no idea what my own dr would do in that situation so it's a toss up but definitely worth a try. If ur appointment isn't til next Thursday and u only have 8mg left, ur gonna run out and be without. Or u can take 1 or 2mg a day til Thursday which is a very real option too. It wouldn't be pleasant but better than going without completely. So my advice would be to try ur dr and see, they either will or won't.

I understand where ur coming from on worrying about always taking extra and running out early. In the beginning, ur still adjusting to sub and ur still in that mode of being used to fixing every single negative thought with medicine...like u did in active addiction. But u gotta stop....now. Ur not going to get anything out of taking more from this medicine, I know u know that already but ur going to have to drill it into ur head. This may be a good learning lesson to keep u from taking so much extra. In the beginning of my treatment, my dr only gave me a weeks worth of medicine at a time and that helped me tremendously. Instead of having my whole script to go through like a mad woman, I knew I only had limited amount. Or have someone hold ur medicine and give u ur dose each day. U definitely don't wanna keep going through this cycle over and over. Also suboxdoc always suggests that when u start thinking about taking extra, go do something to keep ur brain busy for about 10 to 20 min and the moment of taking more will have passed. It works I promise. Do that as many times as u need to.

Ur not the only person who's had issues like this, it takes a bit to adjust. When we first started our treatment, we do miss getting high, it's just the way it is. Those routines of using are still fresh in our minds. U will get past that if u will take ur medicine correctly. U gotta take it right for this to work. If u keep running out and keep going days with nothing because of running out, then ur just delaying ur process of adjusting to this drug. Ur not unique in wanting to take more and more, ur an addict, of course u do. But that will pass if u just keep doing the right things. Also, try to get into some type of recovery things like addiction counseling or some type of meetings.

So please let us know what happens, we'll all be here for as much support u need. Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:25 pm 
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Yes Brett, I too felt almost the same with the exception of knowing I was done abusing opiates. Yes I took extra pills in the beginning until I got a hold on it and my addiction. That is why your doctor wants you to go to recovery meetings or join some kind of rehab group. I have a list of all the resources you'll ever need to find a comfortable place to let your guard down and talk about your addiction. Some do well with the 12 steps (I did) and others just can't grasp the "God" concept. That's okay, there is a program for everyone.

Let your body adjust to the medication and then reduce your dosage right where you're most comfortable at. The addictive tendencies of taking extra will go away in time if you just give it a chance and get into recovery mode.

Here is the list I was referrring to:

http://www.addictionrecoveryguide.org/resources/recovery/rational_and_secular

Welcome to the forum and we sure hope you can find some peace in your new life.

rule

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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:48 pm 
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Good comments already... understand that there is NO benefit from the extra doses. You may 'know' that already-- but you need to convert that knowledge into your understanding of reality, and reinforce that reality over and over, every time you think of taking more. The best way to avoid taking extra in my opinion is to limit access---so NEVER take extra with you to work, and NEVER take extra with you if you go someplace for the day. If you have a spouse or partner, consider having that person control the medication, at least for the first couple months.

When you think of taking extra, take it 'full circle'-- i.e. keep a memory of the worst thing that happened because of your addiction, and associate that memory with thoughts of using. Were you ever embarassed, or ashamed? Or depressed? Be sure to remember, with every craving, how it ended with THOSE feelings. After all, that's the reality of opioid use.

I hope your doc is patient. Some docs aren't; they have no understanding that it sometimes takes a few tries, before patients figure it out. I don't like it when patients call AFTER they are out of medication; I prefer when they let me know earlier, so that i can get them to stretch out their remaining meds. Understand that doctors who provide early refills are often criticized by pharmacists, and by their peers. In other words, your doctor will be accused of being a 'bad doctor' for giving you early refills. That's a tough spot for the doctor, because 'bad doctors' lose referrals, and risk being investigated by the state licensing board. These days, doctors who are too 'loose' with opioids risk all sorts of consequences.

As Jenn and others wrote, you have to make it work-- or otherwise you will be referred to a higher level of care. Maybe its time to tell your doc you are in trouble... but if you want to stay a bupe patient, you must explain that you realize you made a mistake--- and that you have a plan to keep it from happening again. Then next month, you MUST make it work. Hopefully you will get that chance. Keep checking in here, and share when you have cravings. Keep the using thoughts out in the open, and you'll be able to deal with them. Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:39 pm 
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Thanks Jen, Rule, Doc
I appreciate your advice and insight. I did call my Dr and he moved my appt up to next Tuesday. I actually talked with his assistant. I just admitted that over took my meds. I actually feel better being honest. I don't want him getting in any trouble with the dea, board authorities etc. I am not even going to ask for an early refill on Tuesday. My insurance won't cover a refill next Thursday any way. Maybe some withdrawal will be good for me. We will talk next Tuesday. Not sure I will do quite frankly. Maybe I will try abstinence. It's frustrating as an addict to yet "fail" yet again at managing my medication, but I actually feel ok right now. It felt good to be upfront with my doc. I don't think I have been upfront or honest in 3 years. Sorry to ramble. Have a good weekend all.
Brett


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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:06 pm 
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Just keep in mind B that this is temporary, it'll be over and there's a big bright light at the end of the tunnel. Yes ur gonna be feeling a bit yuck but u just have to make it to ur refill. That happened to me once and I freaked out. Luckily I had enough left to take a lot less til my next appt. This has been a few yrs ago. I was going through a really rough patch in my relationship and just over took my medicine. I felt awful and very disappointed in myself for getting bk to the point of feeling bad physically and mentally again. It happens to most of us at some point. What matters is how u move forward from that. Use it to remember what this horrible time is like so u don't do it again. If u do that it'll help. Don't be so hard on urself, you'll get through this. And u told ur dr the truth which is good too. So just get through this and better days will come :)

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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:55 am 
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Hi there -

Just a little update on me. Today is day 4 without subs and I am definitely starting to feel withdrawals. I was all cocky yesterday thinking I wasn't going to have them. So much for that idea lol. Went to bed with RLS and woke up this morning with the typical symptoms. I have my appt with my sub doc today after work. I have been thinking over the weekend that I am going to go with abstinence and 12 step meetings because I have had some success with that before. Now that I am dealing with the W/D, I am not 100% sure. Suboxone is a miracle medication but I don't trust myself with it. We will see what the Dr has to say later. Anyway, I enjoy this forum and just wanted to update where I am.. Take care.
Brett


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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:21 am 
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Hey B,

Thx for the update. Tell your bup doc all this - nothing s/he hasn't heard before and ask for ideas to help you. maybe get weekly scripts till you are able to control your dose? And only pu a couple of days worth? I know, a pain but addiction sucks and you have to find ways to help yourself. my concern is that right now bc you are in wds from a 16mg dose, you are too vulnerable and could easily go back out. I used both bup and recovery work and like Rule, found the 12 steps and lots of other recovery work to be very helpful. There are stories here of folks that start, run out and restart bup several times before it sticks. There have been discussions here that like methadone's daily dosing method, some folks like you, could benefit from a daily dosing bup clinic (they do not exist) until they are able to manage the med on their own. Wishing you my best bc this is all so hard... P

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Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:25 pm 
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Hey there -

Another update from me. Met with my Dr on Tuesday and got back started on the meds. Dealing with the day 4 withdrawals and where I am in my recovery convinced I wanted to start again. Turns out my sub dr. is a big fan of the site. I will be posting more here if I feel the need to "distract" myself from taking extra doses. Hope that's ok with the mods? So far so good on the first 2 days..

Brett


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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:59 pm 
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That s great to hear B!!
Sounds like you have a good dr on your side who understands.

The fact that he comes here is wonderful to hear.

B, you come here and lean on us ANYTIME . And if you get that reaching feeling again, Reread Your threadcand sll the thi gs that others have told you.
You can get stable man, you can! :D

Hang in there B ..

Raz


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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:13 pm 
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HEllo BMArtin,

Running out of your meds is SOOO common. I ran out early the first 6 months i was on subs.
I too felt that the more i took , the better i would feel. Such a waste of the medication. But it is hard to change our addict behavior overnight.

But over time i got better. I would leave my meds at home in a lock box. so I would take one strip with me to work . or even just take half my dose to work and when i got home i would take the other half. Leaving your meds somewhere secure helped me. Not to mention going thru withdraw every month at the end. Just plain Sucked!

You will notice that as time goes on, you will need less and less. I am now just taking a few mgs a day and that is it. My body doesn't need or crave more. But i have been on these for many years.

Oh, one more thing. Consider purchasing a journal. I know it might sound cheese to have a diary and all. But just writing down your emotions when you do crave your meds, or having a good or bad day. It is theraputic to write down what you are feeling. I now go back through my journals and read my struggles and it helps. i see how far I have come .

Good luck to you!


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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:38 pm 
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Best of luck to you. It takes a while to understand how buprenorphine works. It is long acting, very different from full agonists. About six months after I started suboxone, I went out of town to visit relatives over four day Thanksgiving holiday. I forgot my suboxone and to my surprise, no withdrawal. I just went back to by normal dose when I got home and understood the futility of trying to use more to feel better.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:44 pm 
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Thanks for the responses guys.. Feels good to post. Feels even better to have them read and receive encouragement. Feeling good today. No desire to take more than I am prescribed.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:34 am 
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Hey all -

Its been awhile since I updated. I did better on controlling my last script, but I still ran out 3 days early. Better than a week early but not where I want to be. I am still struggling with the "addictive thinking" I wish I could just shut if off like a light switch. I need to come here more often to distract myself when I think about re dosing. I am very thankful for subs because my obsession for pain pills is completely gone. I just need to look at suboxone as a medication instead of something that will help when I want to "feel better" I am starting to meet with an addiction counselor in addition to my suboxone Dr. I am also thinking I am going to go to some meetings. AA/NA and I might even try Smart recovery. I think these things are going to help me on my road to recovery..

Happy Thursday!
Brett


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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:59 am 
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Good to see you back and posting Brett. What Dr. Junig suggests is to stabilize on to Suboxone and stay there for about a year before making any decision to stop. Give your mind and body a chance to get the recovery part squared away.

As far as taking more Sub. Believe it or not it is as simple as just not doing it. Once you get a few days behind you, you then know that's it's just wasting the medication when you take more than 8 mg's. 16 if you're a H addict.

Thanks for the update.

rule

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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:53 am 
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Does anybody question their ability to maintain sobriety? How would I know if I am planning a relapse? One of the things I used to do in my heavy using days would be go through my girlfriends cabinets, closet, nightstand drawers, etc looking for pain pills. I am ashamed of that but it something I did looking for drugs. My g/f can take or leave pain pills. She would get use what she needed and just put the rest away. I found myself doing that again last night and I found a bottle of Vicodin. I didn't take any but I sure thought about it. Luckily I realized that it wouldn't do anything with subs in my system and it would cause me major problems. Failed U/A opening the lack of trust issue with my girlfriend. I have put her through a lot. I am really second guessing myself this morning. Here I am 7+ weeks into subs and I am doing addict behavior. Going through g/f stuff, overtaking my meds. I really wonder what f**k I am doing. Does this sound like a relapse in the making? I don't want to go back to my using days.. Happy Friday..

Brett


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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:11 pm 
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Brett!
you are heading for a relapse.!! Just trying to give you a heads up. my advice would be to go to a meeting. I know NA or SMART recovery meetings are not for everybody. BUT just going to a meeting is great to reset your mind on the RIGHT way of thinking. Thinking toward sobriety. If i started going thru medicine cabinets. Plus..finding a bottle of Vicodin no doubt. I would certainly be thinking about that bottle of vicodin all day long. I would get my butt in a meeting to stay on track.

The cool think about NA meetings are they are everywhere and all day long. Just google one in your area. It will get you on the right way of thinking. You do not have to tell anyone there that you are on ORT or suboxone. Just show up and listen . Or share that you are having cravings. Seriously consider this. i use to go to meetings. I stopped going. but if i started having cravings I would start going every day. It will help, i promise ! Plus you are surrounding yourself with others that are struggling right along beside you. Good luck Brett


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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:46 pm 
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Hey Brett,
First off ,glad you came here looking for an answer. Secondly, I couldn't agree more with Raudy1975.
Take it to heart, you are heading toward useing . Sounds like it.
Maybe the "Glory " of Not useing is starting to ware off . I've seen it happen here at home. In clinic meetings.
If I remember correctly you do have an understanding of meeting or were a member at one time or another. Get back there and put your head in the atmosphere of Recovery.

If your doing all this alone you will be at a disadvantage. As they say in NA, its the We of the program that makes it all work.


Just my 2 cents bud,



Razor


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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:13 pm 
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I'm gonna tell ya, at 7 weeks in, if I'd ran across a bottle of pills in my home...I would have been exactly like u. My biggest thing is NOT putting urself in that position. If u hadn't had an idea there were pills around then u wouldn't have been searching for em to begin with. I understand ur gf can take em or leave em but u can't. What I would do is just be very honest with her and tell her that by those being there it's tempting u like crazy. I'm willing to bet that she'll keep them somewhere else and be glad for the heads up. U are just to fragile to be around anything right now. It takes a long time for someone to be comfortable with that kind of thing. I'm 4 1/2 yrs on suboxone and after my fiance had his heart attack, his pain medicine was around and I had to adjust to it. I thought about how bad it sucks to have to know it's in the house with me. But I was able to stop and think and in the end realized it would definitely not be worth it...but not at 7 weeks in, no way. I don't think it's healthy to be anywhere around it. It's gonna drive u crazy knowing they're there and u will relapse.

What ur feeling is normal for someone newly in recovery around opiates and having them at arms reach. So that's the first thing to change imo. I hope it works out and u have a good conversation with ur girl, she'll understand.

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 Post subject: Re: Need Advice
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:12 pm 
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Hi Guys -

Thanks for the encouragement and the advice. I am solid and still clean. I didn't make it to an NA meeting although I plan to when I have more time. We went on a planned weekend get away up to Seattle ( I am in Portland, OR). It was nice and relaxing and we got to take in a Mariners game. The weekend helped me refocus and realize where I want to get to in my journey towards sobriety. I did not talk to my g/f about finding her pills because A I am ashamed I went thru her stuff again and B I don't want to open that old wound. I see me sub doc and an addiction counselor today. I am anxious get going with the addiction counselor and really dig in to why I am so empty, and why I look to escape with substances. All the best!

Brett


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