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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Can anybody tell me how to use these suboxone pills to kick my heroin habit?
About me? I have been using heroin for about twenty years, the last three years I was on methadone,
but I switched to heroin for the last three weeks to be able to kick easier with the suboxone.
okay I have 22 of these orange subone pills, I am using a half gram of heroin a day.
I need a fast taper , and I know its not going to be pain free or easy, also please don't tell me to
do a long taper because I don't have insurance and I DONT want to be strung out on suboxone!
I can get xanax and clonopine, if needed to make this kick easier,or anything else suggested and all
suggestions will be considered and appreciated. Thank you


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Fihi....I have never used hereione but I am a pill addict really not much difference....the key is to stretch the subs out long enough to take your withdraws away...I think its about ten days ...I would start off with the smallest dose of subs you can and seee what works for you. One in morning and @ night...I'm assuming those pills are 8mg..try 2mg twice daily...suboxone is great and it will take the wd's away...try that and let me know


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:45 pm 
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Hello MIA. So you're going to try a rapid taper with Suboxone? It can work. We've had a few people over the years who've posted here about doing that, seemingly successfully....for the short term anyhow.
Most regular members and the owner/creator of this site are not generally in favor of this approach, however. You can easily find all the reasons why by just spending some time reading here and checking out Dr. Junig's blog and YouTube videos.
It would really be best for you to have a legit Rx and to have your own doctor advising you here, but I've got a feeling you're not willing to do that right now. If the reason you don't want to consider being on Sub for a longer time period is that you don't want to be "strung out"....I can promise you that being on Sub is nothing like being on heroin or methadone. It's not even close!
I won't advise you on any particular dosing schedule as I'm not a doctor. I can tell you a couple of key things though. Firstly, you absolutely must be in at least a moderate state of withdrawal before taking your first dose. If you take it too soon, you'll wind up in precipitated w/d. Google "cows opiate withdrawal" to help you assess. Once you're ready, I'd start with a couple of milligrams...If your tablets are 8mg, that's 1/4 of a pill. If you don't feel much better in an hour, I'd take another 2mg and keep doing so until your w/d abates.
After that, I'd basically take as minimal as possible to ward off w/d. Exactly how much that is, is highly variable. Bear in mind...this is a strong medication and it has a very long half life. You should find that the initial 2-3 days you'll require more, but after that you should be able to get by on less and less. Once you get through that initial 'test' dose and stabilization, you should try to take it only once a day. At the end of your taper, however, you may need to dose 2-3 times a day because your doses will be so low that they won't hold you as long. When I say "low" doses, I'm talking about 1/4 of a milligram...a tiny crumb of one of the 8mg tablets.
Hope that helps and good luck to you!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Hey MIA I don't know how strong your dope is, but for me, whenever I would want to start taking subs, I could usually take a 1/16th of an 8 mg pill 12 hours after using dope. That is .5 mg of suboxone. It would take the edge off. But I could not take any more suboxone for an additional 12 hours or else I would get precipitated withdrawal. If you want to be extra safe, wait the 24 hours and then take a 16th (.5 mg). After taking that .5 mg at the 24 hour mark, I would wait 1 hour, and if I was not feeling worse (signs of precipitated withdraw), I would take a quarter of a pill (2 mg). But for some people, they have to wait 36 to 48 hours. I suggest that if you are already sick 12 hours after you used dope last, try the 1/16th (.5 mg) or even a 32nd of a pill (.25 mg). But try not to take any more than a 1/16th until it has been 24 hours since you last did dope. If you do try the 16th (.5 mg) after 12 hours and you feel like it has done absolutely nothing, I would take another 16th (.5 mg), but no more than that. But if you don't feel sick after 12 hours, you should wait the full 24 hours. This 12 hour rule came from a doctor himself. But most doctors usually say 2-4 days. So it's up to you, if you know you are really sick after only 12 hours, then try the 32nd (.25 mg) or 16th (.5 mg).

To get a 16th (.5 mg), do the following: (and it helps if you go to a pharmacy and buy a cheap small plastic pill cutter)

Take 1 suboxone pill (8 mg)
Cut it in half ( now you have two 4 mg pieces)
Cut one of those in half (now you have two 2 mg pieces)
Cut one of those in half (now you have two 1 mg pieces)
Cut one of those in half (now you have two .5 mg pieces -- which is two 16ths)
Cut one of those in half (now you have two .25 mg pieces -- which is two 32nds)

I have read one story that rehab often has people on suboxone for 1 week. That's it. Because really, if you think you can handle the mental stuff and be able to break the mental addiction cycle, you really only need the suboxone to take the edge off of your heroin withdraws. What I would do is, after you realize that there is no chance of precipitated withdraw, (usually in 24-36 hours you should be in the clear. Just try a tiny piece, wait an hour, and if you don't feel worse, then take a little more, wait an hour, and if you don't feel any worse, you can probably take as much as you want). It sort of depends on how strong your dope is. I was doing about .75 grams of black tar, which was the strongest any of these old dope addicts had even messed with, but weighs more than China, so it's hard to compare. Plus, I'm going off of other people's opinions. I was only in the scene for a couple years. I started off at 1 pill a day. I ended up doing 1.5 pills a day but I don't think I needed to. Anyways, I would start off doing 1 pill a day. Do that for 3 days. Even though most doctors do not recommend this, I recommend cutting it in half and dosing once in the morning and once in late afternoon, or, even cut it up into 3 times a day. The doctors say they only want people dosing once per day to break the habit of thinking they need the stuff and always thinking about their dose all day, but you are only going to be on this a short time so I would recommend dosing 2 or 3 times a day. So for the first 3 days, do a total of 8 mg a day. If you are having stomach issues, then bump it up to a pill and a half every day (12 mg). My friend just switched to suboxone and if he has only 8 mg, he has stomach issues, and 12 mg takes care of them.

So in 3-5 days, you heroin withdraws should pretty much be taken care of, so you can then reduce your dose by 2 mg. So if you were at 8 mg for 3 days, drop it down to 6 mg. Do that for 3 days. By now your dope withdraw should be totally done with. Well, technically they never happened, but you know what I mean. Then jump down to 4 mg. Do that for 2 days. Just down to 2 mg. Do that for 2 days. Jump down to 1 mg. Do that for two days. Jump down to .5 mg. Do that for 2 days. Then stop taking it altogether. So that is a total of 14 days. 2 weeks. That's twice as long as some rehab places let you take it. So if you wanted to just get it over with and just use suboxone to take care of dope withdraws, which should last no more than a week anyways, then cut all the dosage days in half and just be on it for 1 week. Good luck! It's possible your withdraw from suboxone could last 3-7 days. But it will not be near as bad as dope withdraw, and that's the whole point in taking them.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:24 pm 
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First off Thank You to those who responded so fast, I got a lot of information from your replies and so I think I
get the idea of "tapering" now. My question now is are you saying I am going to have to withdrawal off of the suboxone?
If thats the case, what is the point of taking it? Am I just postponing the inevitable? I don't know if I like that idea, Whats up
with that?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:05 pm 
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The main reason is subs is a lot safer and legal...a week on subs @ such. Low dose shouldn't cause any major wd's. I been on subs allmost a year they saved me a lot ! I'm currently having a relaspe cause of some red tape issues wid my insurance but I plan on going back on my meds...this has to be your choice...what's the lesser of the 2 evils?? I'm not a dr but I would give the subs a try. Short term of coarse..for future you mihght wanna try and find a clinic or sub dr just for future insurance...you can do this. Don't be afraid...pray and have faith


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:30 pm 
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One idea is to just take the subs for 3 or 4 days just to stave off the dope withdraws. You won't be getting high off the subs, and you will still feel withdraws, but they can at least be bearable enough for you to function throughout the day. After you are certain you won't have precipitated withdraw, take just a quarter of the suboxone pill once a day for 3 days and then stop. You might feel minor withdraws for 3 additional days but then you will start to feel better.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:52 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Hi there...I think that Invisible Movement gave you some good advice, only I would
take half as much, if you can get away with it. You're goal is to take the lowest dose
possible, to keep you out of withdrawal. That could be as low as 2 mg....suboxone is ALOT
stronger than people think, and you may not need to take as much as 8mg a day.
There is also the chance that you may need more than 8mg AT FIRST. She mentioned
both. So, basically, start off as low as you can, and if I were you, the only thing that I
personally would do different, is not take it for 2~3 weeks. I'd take it for a week max.
I don't know about you, but when I was in active addiction, the physical withdrawal was always
over within 5~7 days. It was all psychological after that.
And yes, you can get addicted/dependent on suboxone. That is why I suggest a week max.
Good Luck to you!!! Take Care~[/font]

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~Deepak Chopra


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:11 pm 
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HELLO

you have gotten some SOUND ideas, here..... very good information,,,,,, I wouldn't have said anything different,,,,,

I do absolutely agree with the taking only a LITTLE at a time,,,, to make sure you don't get precipitated w/d
that would suck,,,,,

I want you to know, that there are a lot of people that have a HARDER time going from methadone/heroin to suboxone,

for some reason, (I went from 150mg methadone/day to suboxone)
The suboxone doesn't take ALL the withdrawl symptoms away, i mean, it didn't for me,
so if you sorta expect TOO MUCH relief, than sometimes you can THINK your in precipitated w/d, when really,
your "good"
you just STILL have MILD withdrawl symptoms,,,,,,
i was on methadone for about three years,and of course I'd do heroin, or whatever else, when I ran out of methadone,
so It took about two weeks , for the sweats/shits/restless legs stuff to quit,,,,
but I think a week, is good advice, I mean I was DEFINITELY doing MUCH better at day 7 than day 1

Also, it doesn't hurt to keep an open mind,,,,about staying on it longer,,,,
I dont think you'll even FEEL strung out on suboxne, it just doesn't even really "compare"
it's like trying to wiegh the pros and cons of driving a 1980 toyota, and a 2010 mustang or something?
like WHERE do you start with the differences?? LOL

anyways,
if you want to know HOW suboxne works, on your brain,, here's a link to Dr. J's vidoes, on youtube,
I reccomend watching at least the "how suboxone works" one, it will explain how it's a partial agonist,
thus making it MUCH MUCH different than methadone, or any pain pill.........

http://www.youtube.com/user/SuboxDoc
there's 19 videos total, most are on taper/withdrawl issues

here's the link to how suboxone works, part one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ls1F6vNhYw&feature=plcp

OH,
and real quickly,,,,,
people that are on suboxone maintenance, yes, do have w/d, but its sopposed to be not nearly as intense as opiate
w/d .............more like way less intense, but longer drawn out,,,,,,, the half life/stacking effect of suboxone,
makes you not even START to have w/d's for a couple days, depending on the individual.

Hope this helps,
as I said, YOU realy have gotten some very good ideas/replies/advice in the above,,,,,,
we have a great group of people here,
thanks for helping out, everyone :wink:

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:32 pm 
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Aight here's a paragraph of what can be assumed to be may be the popular 1-week-detox-off-of-your-opiates-using-suboxone method from eHow.com: (not a perfectly authoritative websites but maybe can give u an idea on the dosage schedule I guess - really the first paragraph is the one that will interest u most maybe if you're still thinkin about doin this)

Suboxone Dosage
Suboxone should only be used with a doctor's prescription. He will most likely prescribe you the recommended dosage of 6 mg the first day, 8 mg the second day, 10 mg the third day, 8 mg the fourth day, 4 mg the fifth day, 4 mg the sixth day and 2 mg the seventh day. During this time, the patient should have successfully withdrawn from the opiate medication.

Symptoms of Opiate Withdrawal
Even with Suboxone to assist in opiate withdrawal, a person may still experience side effects. These side effects may include insomnia, sweating, difficulty sleeping, agitation, vomiting, goosebumps, shaking, runny nose, diarrhea and nausea. If you experience these symptoms after one week of being only on Suboxone, contact your doctor to remain on Suboxone for a longer amount of time.

Making Withdrawal Easier
Even with the help of Suboxone, you should have a doctor nearby to monitor your symptoms. Keep lots of food in the house that you enjoy eating, and plenty of water bottles. The more water you drink, the sooner the opiates will flush out of your system. Keep blankets nearby as your temperature will fluctuate throughout your withdrawal. Do not prevent yourself from throwing up--anything that your body feels it needs to do is appropriate for your withdrawal. If you are running a fever of over 103 F or you cannot keep food down, go to the emergency room.



Read more: Suboxone Withdrawal Tips | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/way_5244582_suboxon ... z2DxLBzDAO


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