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 Post subject: I Need Advice Please
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Hi all I have been on Sub for almost 3 weeks Monday:) Sine this therapy is becoming more popular shall we say I need help with the facts because:

I am a Moderator of a forum of all things natural but we have all type of topics to choose from. Someone already said I should be punched in the face for mentioning Sub therapy because in my opinion it's better than the clinic in my friends situation. Europe is 30 years ahead of us on addiction treatment so I should read more studies from there.

I just don't know how to deal with the violent gut reaction to it in a manner where I don't want to bitch slap the person. lol Seriously I'm a peace and love kinda girl and just want a civil and informative convo.

Thanks for listening!
~Dani

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:41 am 
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So you're on another forum that doesn't exactly support your suboxone treatment, is that what you mean? Well, that sucks! Do they not understand addiction or is it suboxone they don't understand? Either way, it sounds like what they need is some education. Of course, people who have their minds made up don't always listen. In fact, studies show that even when presented with factual information, people still rarely change their minds! Amazing, isn't it?

We have a great thread under the "Why the Anger" category from a while ago called "What is Addiction?". We talked about it alot and posted some great articles about what it means and the parts of our brains that have been affected. It's pretty interesting and it might give you a greater understanding than you already have and give you more info to help your other forum understand.

Just a thought. Good luck and you know we're here for you.

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:16 pm 
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In my own experience (I was on Sub for 2 years) the drug will turn on you once the honeymoon period (usually a couple months) ends. I suffered deep depression, a lot of anger, felt dead inside with no emotion at all about anything. The people dogging you on your website probably experienced the same thing and are pissed off at the false advertisement of this drug. This drug is meant to be used as a short-term solution and better to jump off at 3 weeks then to battle the WDs that will come when trying to quit, which are far worse then opaite WDs. Do yourself a favor, if your doctor has you on more th 8 Mil a day, you can cut that down immediately with no negatibe effects. With Sub, less is more. Get yourself down to a low dose (2 Mil) and you will feel a lot better then staying on 16 or 32 Mil a day which ridiculous. Just trying to school you here, I have nothing to gain by giving you the hard truth.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:30 pm 
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I've been on sub for 2 years and 7 months and it never turned on me.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:33 pm 
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SubLuv wrote:
In my own experience (I was on Sub for 2 years) the drug will turn on you once the honeymoon period (usually a couple months) ends. I suffered deep depression, a lot of anger, felt dead inside with no emotion at all about anything. The people dogging you on your website probably experienced the same thing and are pissed off at the false advertisement of this drug. This drug is meant to be used as a short-term solution and better to jump off at 3 weeks then to battle the WDs that will come when trying to quit, which are far worse then opaite WDs. Do yourself a favor, if your doctor has you on more th 8 Mil a day, you can cut that down immediately with no negatibe effects. With Sub, less is more. Get yourself down to a low dose (2 Mil) and you will feel a lot better then staying on 16 or 32 Mil a day which ridiculous. Just trying to school you here, I have nothing to gain by giving you the hard truth.


I'm sorry if that's YOUR experience, but it's not everyone's. I've been on sub for over 3 years and I know people on it from 1 - 8 years and have no problems with it "turning" on you. (Not that I understand how a medication can do something like that, you seem to be anthropomorphizing it.)

As for your statement that "this drug is meant to be used as a short-term solution...", you are stating this as a fact and it is NOT A FACT. It is an additional part of your opinion but you make it sound like a fact and that's not acceptable. Some doctors agree with you, but many do not.

Make sure you stick to stating your opinions and not making them sound like you're presenting facts. Also, you're not giving "THE HARD TRUTH", you're giving YOUR OPINION.

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:57 pm 
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Mr/Mrs Moderator, people should be able to read EVERYONE'S experience not just the positive ones. Those are my facts that I've stated as I've stayed active on these forums even after getting off this poison just to warn people about the changes in behavior they will eventually see and feel. But I figured I might have this problem if I was honest on here.
No worries.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:00 pm 
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Experiences and opinions are welcome here, encouraged even. But incorrect information is not.

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:38 pm 
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SubLuv wrote:
In my own experience (I was on Sub for 2 years) the drug will turn on you once the honeymoon period (usually a couple months) ends. I suffered deep depression, a lot of anger, felt dead inside with no emotion at all about anything. The people dogging you on your website probably experienced the same thing and are pissed off at the false advertisement of this drug. This drug is meant to be used as a short-term solution and better to jump off at 3 weeks then to battle the WDs that will come when trying to quit, which are far worse then opaite WDs. Do yourself a favor, if your doctor has you on more th 8 Mil a day, you can cut that down immediately with no negatibe effects. With Sub, less is more. Get yourself down to a low dose (2 Mil) and you will feel a lot better then staying on 16 or 32 Mil a day which ridiculous. Just trying to school you here, I have nothing to gain by giving you the hard truth.



--So Sorry You had a Bad experience with Suboxone, but as has been stated YOU and not Everyone has had the exact same Result. Myself I HATE Methadone, now I am sure that there are a few people that LUV Methadone, but to me it is EVIL Reincarnated and I don't mind Giving MY OPINION on it Freely. But it is just that MY Opinion and not everyone else's reality. What you have posted about is Your Reality, have you ever heard of the saying..." Perception is Reality"...???...What You might have or have not experienced does not stand 100% for everyone else. When anyone comes on here and states that "I am Giving You the Facts"..what they are in-fact doing is Literizing about their "Perception of Their Reality"....Listen this is not some Opinion based forum where you choose which is your favorite song or what-not. This is for all the marbles, this is for people's Lives, No One has the Right to Play with the Facts; simply because this is what they Perceive to be the truth. Fortunately in our Modern Society facts are based in Science not conjecture. If not; then we would have witch-craft being practiced again. It is already Bad Enough when they very people that we put faith in let us down ie;Doctors,etc. Those Healers are only Human and they too make mistakes, but they have very good MalPractice Insurance and hopefully a Large Conscience to keep them from mis-informing their patients into making poor choices. I can relate as my Pain Doctor lead me awry, but it is not only his fault but Mine as well. Any Narcotic, can be mis-used, well for that Matter anything in this word can be labeled Both Good and Bad. A Very Good thing can easily turn Bad when it is Abused or mis-used, case in Point Suboxone. You are Not a Doctor, but you do have a voice, use that voice but remember that You too must be held accountable for the words that come out of your mouth or from your fingers too. Scientific fact should be left for the Scientist, of which I see not one of them on this forum, what I do see are people very much like me that need/want and even offer Help. Use that Voice of your's to be Helpful, or go somewhere else !


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 6:26 pm 
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One day ata Time wrote:
Fortunately in our Modern Society facts are based in Science not conjecture. If not; then we would have witch-craft being practiced again.


Actually, witchcraft is still practiced. :P


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:44 pm 
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I'd be happy if one of those Nice looking Witches would perform some of her Craft on me when I get to feeling better...You are correct in that the Human race are only a few steps from reverting back to Animalistic Behavior !


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:43 am 
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One day ata Time wrote:
SubLuv wrote:
In my own experience (I was on Sub for 2 years) the drug will turn on you once the honeymoon period (usually a couple months) ends. I suffered deep depression, a lot of anger, felt dead inside with no emotion at all about anything. The people dogging you on your website probably experienced the same thing and are pissed off at the false advertisement of this drug. This drug is meant to be used as a short-term solution and better to jump off at 3 weeks then to battle the WDs that will come when trying to quit, which are far worse then opaite WDs. Do yourself a favor, if your doctor has you on more th 8 Mil a day, you can cut that down immediately with no negatibe effects. With Sub, less is more. Get yourself down to a low dose (2 Mil) and you will feel a lot better then staying on 16 or 32 Mil a day which ridiculous. Just trying to school you here, I have nothing to gain by giving you the hard truth.



--So Sorry You had a Bad experience with Suboxone, but as has been stated YOU and not Everyone has had the exact same Result. Myself I HATE Methadone, now I am sure that there are a few people that LUV Methadone, but to me it is EVIL Reincarnated and I don't mind Giving MY OPINION on it Freely. But it is just that MY Opinion and not everyone else's reality. What you have posted about is Your Reality, have you ever heard of the saying..." Perception is Reality"...???...What You might have or have not experienced does not stand 100% for everyone else. When anyone comes on here and states that "I am Giving You the Facts"..what they are in-fact doing is Literizing about their "Perception of Their Reality"....Listen this is not some Opinion based forum where you choose which is your favorite song or what-not. This is for all the marbles, this is for people's Lives, No One has the Right to Play with the Facts; simply because this is what they Perceive to be the truth. Fortunately in our Modern Society facts are based in Science not conjecture. If not; then we would have witch-craft being practiced again. It is already Bad Enough when they very people that we put faith in let us down ie;Doctors,etc. Those Healers are only Human and they too make mistakes, but they have very good MalPractice Insurance and hopefully a Large Conscience to keep them from mis-informing their patients into making poor choices. I can relate as my Pain Doctor lead me awry, but it is not only his fault but Mine as well. Any Narcotic, can be mis-used, well for that Matter anything in this word can be labeled Both Good and Bad. A Very Good thing can easily turn Bad when it is Abused or mis-used, case in Point Suboxone. You are Not a Doctor, but you do have a voice, use that voice but remember that You too must be held accountable for the words that come out of your mouth or from your fingers too. Scientific fact should be left for the Scientist, of which I see not one of them on this forum, what I do see are people very much like me that need/want and even offer Help. Use that Voice of your's to be Helpful, or go somewhere else !


These are MY FACTS, not my perception. I know what the hell happened and if this poison works for you and keeps you moving, go for it. I am trying to be helpful but I won't blow smoke up anyone's ass here. I want people to to at least think about the fact that this "pink cloud" they are on could be ending soon and then their life could unravel with it. Good Luck !


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 10:10 am 
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I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "FACT". You can have opinions, but you cannot MAKE UP FACTS.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 10:52 am 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "FACT". You can have opinions, but you cannot MAKE UP FACTS.


I understand the meaning of the word just fine. I am not making anything up, the stuff I talk about HAPPENED !
If you go outside in the rain with no umbrella, you get wet...FACT
Suboxone is bad drug to be on long term...FACT


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:26 am 
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I sense a disturbance in the Force, my highly trained Jedi skills tell me there's about to be a throw down....I'm going to get me some popcorn and watch the show!

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 2:10 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
SubLuv wrote:
In my own experience (I was on Sub for 2 years) the drug will turn on you once the honeymoon period (usually a couple months) ends. I suffered deep depression, a lot of anger, felt dead inside with no emotion at all about anything. The people dogging you on your website probably experienced the same thing and are pissed off at the false advertisement of this drug. This drug is meant to be used as a short-term solution and better to jump off at 3 weeks then to battle the WDs that will come when trying to quit, which are far worse then opaite WDs. Do yourself a favor, if your doctor has you on more th 8 Mil a day, you can cut that down immediately with no negatibe effects. With Sub, less is more. Get yourself down to a low dose (2 Mil) and you will feel a lot better then staying on 16 or 32 Mil a day which ridiculous. Just trying to school you here, I have nothing to gain by giving you the hard truth.


OMG, I have gone through the EXACT same thing, you are telling my story! I thought I had something seriously wrong with me because my brain just wasn't healing on or after the sub! I was on for 3 years. The first year was amazing, I felt like I could conquer the world because I felt safe from drugs. My doctor told me it would be easy to come off and all I had to do was taper down. Then I started trying to stop and couldn't. I think I was totally mislead because I have not been able to get off this drug like I thought I could. I start having all the withdrawal symptoms like I did when I was taking opies. I feel like I am wearing a lead suit half the time and the other half I don't want to move out of my house! I'm so depressed! This isn't what I signed up for!! Thank you subluv for telling it like it is!You can "school me anytime" It's worth it to see someone else share what you feel!


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Olivia - I'm sorry your doctor mislead you. Unfortunately that does happen. This is why it's always best for us to do our own homework before we put any medication into our body. There is much information online about suboxone to learn before taking it.

You are absolutely welcome to tell you story and experiences, which you did. You told it from your point of view and as your experience. That's acceptable.

(What we have problems with is telling other people that one person's experience applies to everyone. One bad experience does not make a medication "bad" for long term use. [Besides, how can a chemical be "bad"?] An alleged factual statement like that must be backed up with sources.)

We welcome you to the forum. Please continue to share your experiences and we'll support you in any way we can.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 2:47 pm 
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Hatmaker - if it was just me this happened to I would agree with you that maybe the drug just affected me differently. But the fact is I've spoken with people all over the country that have experienced the exact same thing. My belief is people should be warned not to just sit back and plan on being on suboxone forever.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:06 pm 
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Thank you sublove. I for one appreciate your honesty.


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 Post subject: Difference of Opinion
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 4:21 pm 
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No one is saying what happened to you didn't happen. But everyone reacts differently to drugs. What about all the people here who have jumped off and did so with minimal side effects? Same with other forums I've been to. Are you calling them liars? Is your reality the only TRUE reality? Or is someone else's experience just not real in your world.

And how do you know you wouldn't have had the same reactions from your DOC? Did you ever try to stop long term? I know many others in NA/AA who state that it took them a year to feel normal again after w/d'ing. Their symptoms were quite similar too. Are they lying?

Just trying to have you see it from a different angle. But please, you are doing more harm than good by making those statements. Some person may read it and choose not to take a replacement drug and overdose or keep going until something really bad happens, only because they were afraid to seek treatment. See my point?

All you really needed to say was "this is what happened to me, please be careful as it may happen to you too"

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 5:05 pm 
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Hey Olivia,

When it came time for me to quit Suboxone, my doctor told me I could quit from 2mg and I'd be fine in 3 days....HAHAHA....she was either nuts or sorely misinformed.....or both!!! lol

Anyway, when I got off Suboxone, I too HATED it. I HATED it with every fiber of my being because I was NOT expecting the wd I got.

After several months off of it, I found this forum and it wasn't until after reading some posts that I realized the entire time I was on Suboxone (almost 3 years) I didn't use drugs....not once AND I was off Suboxone for several months and still not using drugs again. That's when it dawned on me, I was drug free and Suboxone played a really big role in that and instead of being pissed at it, I should be thankful for it, which I am.

As far as your taper goes, how much are you dropping at a time? We usually suggest to drop your dose by about 25% while over 4mg, then drop by 10%. It usually takes at least a few days to stabilize at your new dose, sometimes quite a bit longer though.

I hope you're able to find your way forward without too much pain and suffering.

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