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 Post subject: Need Advice ASAP Please!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:49 pm 
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I have gotten down to 4 10/325 percocet a day now for the last week. Today I went to doc to start Sub. He has me starting at the 8mg - 2mg dose twice a day. Isn't this too much for someone who is only on 4 percocet a day? Also. everything I have read says not to start until in full withdrawl. I am supposed to start tonight, only 10 hours after last dose of percocet. I called pharmacy and they said I should be ok that the percocet should be out of my system. I am scared to start & go into the perpetual withdrawls nd don't want such a high dose of Sub. I want off them ASAP and my next appt to see doc is in 2 weeks. I have cut a couple of the pills in 1/2 and thinking of only doing 1/2 twice a day. Any advice from you experts is so appreciated. Also, he gave me clonzapam and the literture that came with the Sub. says not to take them together??? I am so lost.


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 Post subject: Unfortunate
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:57 pm 
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It is unfortunate that you did not get more information. The key to inducting on suboxone is to be in mild w/d.....time is not as important as to how you feel. I personally was taking 20 lortab 10's a day and waited 48 hours before inducting but could have very easily done so at 24 hours. If you google COWS scale it will help you to tell you where you are in w/d's. If your tired, watery eyes, sneezing, rls you are in w/d. If your truly concerned wait till in the morning because precipitated w/d's is 20 times worse.

Again listen to your body and if you feel you are in w/d you should be ok. Yes that is a high dose........I am not a doctor but I would try 4mg to start.....in 20 minutes you will know whether your going to have precipitated w/d. After 2 hours if you still feel you are in w/d I would take the other 4mg. Clonipin is a benzo and usually a big no no when taking suboxone as it can cause respitory arrest and it is very addictive. Be very careful with it and you will probally be amazed at how great suboxone works that you wont even need it. Others will be along to share as well. good luck and let us know how you make out.

Jim


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 Post subject: My 2¢
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:20 pm 
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IMHO, with you only taking such a small amount of pain meds, I would hesitate starting Sub. Sub is much stronger than what you're taking now. I would think a taper from your Percs would be the best thing unless you just can't do it.

If you do decide to go onto the Sub, try to stick to a low dose and only for a short time, if you can. You also need to deal with the addictive behavior and a short time may not work.

I would just hate to see you be stuck on Sub when you were only taking four a day. Is that what was prescribed, or did you take more? The w/d's from what you were taking certainly wouldn't be that bad, and over in a week. But it's up to you and your doctor to decide.

Good Luck!

Rule62


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:05 am 
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1st of all Welcome...from reading your post you've already done some tapering yourself, GOOG JOB ... If you use the conversion tables, that much oxy is equal to 3-4 mg of Suboxone.... Not 16mg... I'm not a Dr though.... As my Suboxone Dr ( also my psyciatrist )said to my wife when he met her " Suboxone is a very difficult medication to get off of " I was a 2 month rookie at the time, if he where to say that now my response would be " no shit " I like your plan ,Good Luck, Mike


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:42 am 
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Like ReRaise said, use the COWS scale to help you determine the state of your withdrawals. That will help you to know when you should start the sub. You only need to be in mild to moderate withdrawals to avoid precipitated withdrawals.

You can find it here: http://www.pharmacypracticenews.com/download/cows.pdf

I agree that taking 4 mg to start might be a good place to start. If you have no problems with precipitated withdrawal, then wait about an hour and if your withdrawals are not gone, then you can take another 2-4 mg. You can keep doing that until your withdrawals are gone.

I must say your doctor did you a great disservice by allowing you to do this on your own with little to no instructions. That's extremely unprofessional of him/her.

I cannot stress enough that I am NOT a doctor, medical professional, or expert on suboxone of any kind. This is merely based on what I've learned about sub in the last 2.5 years.

The issue of whether you need to start suboxone or not doesn't depend on the amount of full agonists ("regular" pain pills) that you're currently taking, but more so on how bad your addiction is, how long it's lasted, and how much damage it's done to your life. That's a decision for you and your doctor.

I hope this helps and if you have any more questions, just ask. Good luck.

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 Post subject: Still hanging on
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:11 pm 
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It has been 24 hours since my last perc and I haven't taken anything. Trying not to. Thank u all so much who replied. I called doc's office last night, left a msg. and still haven't heard back from them. Guess I am on my own.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm 
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I still can't believe your doctor left you high and dry like this, but I guess that's beside the point. What are your withdrawals like? Where are you at on the COWS scale?

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 Post subject: Took First Sub
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:09 pm 
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Hatmaker, Thank u for answering. I was in moderate on the COW sheet so I went ahead & took a 1/2 Sub. 30 minutes later I still felt bad so went ahead & took the other 1/2. I feel much better now, but have a terrible headache. Doc's nurse called me back @ 3:00 PM finally while I had the Sub. in my mouth so I didn't answer.... called her back. Told her I had a terrible headache and asked what I could take and she said ONLY Tylenol. Do u know if Ibuprofen is ok? My daughter, (she's a nurse) called a pharmacist she knows well and he answered a lot of my questions and agreed that the Sub dose is high for the amount of percs I was down too, but he thought maybe the doc is trying to get rid of all my withdrawl since I've been going through it to some degree for 2 weeks titrating 100% off Lortab, and 1/2 the percs I was taking. I have been miserable for 2 weeks. Anyway, his thoughts were that the doc is trying to get me feeling better right away & keep my pain under control as I still have the same physical problems that I was on all the pills for to begin with. So, for now I took just the one and will try it at the dose he prescribed for a couple days and then start cutting them in half. Like many of u have said, I didn't get into this mess overnight so I can't expect to get out of it overnight. I just want to do all I can to get off the ub as soon as I can. I am so glad I have all of u on this forum. Don't know what I would do without you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:32 pm 
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First of all, I'm glad you didn't have any precipitated withdrawals. How are you feeling now? Are your withdrawals all gone? If you've been withdrawing even at the low dose of the pain pills you were on, you might need more sub than you think you do. Don't compare your dose to that of others'. The right dose for you will take you out of withdrawals completely and address all of your cravings. That's what you should be shooting for. If you're in any doubt that your withdrawals are over, check your pupils. They shouldn't be dilated (bigger than normal) anymore if your w/d are gone. So take what you need for now. Like you said, you can always cut your dose later on.

Good luck and please do keep us posted.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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 Post subject: Doing Much Better
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:02 pm 
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Hatmaker, you are such a Sweetheart! You have always responded to my posts, I am feeling much better now. I threw up 4 times after taking the Sub, but phenegren took care of that. All withdrawls are gone!!! Whooooo Hooooo!!! I haven't felt this relaxed in 2 weeks. (since I flushed all those Lortabs and cut my Percocet) I am very tired, but can't sleep. But, I can handle that.... already told my employer I wouldn't be at work and this was my "short" work week so I have a few days to get this regulated some. I am hoping that first dose is the only time I will have to take a whole one as I agree with some of the other's that have responded that 8mg. twice a day is wayyyyyy more than the few pills I was taking and I don't want to be on Sub any longer than I have to. Wonder what life without any pills is like???!!!
Hugs to you for always looking out for me Hat!
Julie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:58 am 
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Thanks for the kind words, Julie. I'm glad you're feeling better. I'm not sure what the vomiting was about - could have been nerves. But it's not common with a suboxone induction.

And you might be right that 16 mg is a bit much. I would try 8 mg and make sure that takes care of your withdrawals today as well as your cravings.

Don't be too concerned right away with getting off sub. Focus on getting your life together and getting away from those bad habits we formed. Also, studies show that short term sub treatment has an extremely high rate of relapse. So for now, think about getting your head and lifestyle in order. If that means being on sub a year or two, then so be it. There's no evidence that being on sub longer means it's harder to come off of. Some people say that, but like I said, there are no studies to back that up - it's just opinion.

Take care of YOU right now. Think of suboxone as any other medication you take. That's how I look at it. It's no different than my high cholesterol med or my beta blocker or my antidepressant. I take it and forget about it. Oh and since your doctor is writing you for 16 mg a day, maybe you can stash away a bit of a "back stock" of sub so you don't have to worry about getting to the pharmacy on the exact day each month. Many of us do that and it eases our mind.

Thanks again and please do take care and continue to keep us updated. :)

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:10 am 
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im glad you feeling better. it sounds like you were on a fairly low dose of perks so the sub dose was probably a little to higha t first. i wanted to add to what hatmaker said and let you know that you should try not to focus on when your getting off sub and just focus on living without active addiction in your life. i know when i first got on sub all i could focus on was when i was getting off of the subs and for a couple weeks i got really torn up about taking subs and being on them for more then a couple months. my advice to you is to just focus on livin gyour life and enjoying your life now that you dont need to focus on getting pills and getting high. goodluck!!


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 Post subject: Puking
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:20 pm 
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I puked my guts out when I was tapering up onto Sub. My initial dose was very low, but I still barfed. I barfed after all the increases for a while too, but it went away. It just happened in the beginning. I'm glad you feel better and are stabilizing. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:59 pm 
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Bitzy, you sound just like my daughter! She tells me the same thing every day! I do beat myself up cause I do focus too much on getting off ASAP. I am doing great at 1/2 Sub a day and haven't thrown up from them any more. I took a whole 8mg. the first time & that's when I got sick. Taking only 1/2, I haven't gotten sick. This is day 5 at 1/2 a pill a day (1/2 of an 8mg) & going great. See no need to take more & my family says I'm acting "normal"... whatever that is for me!!! Thank u.... all of u..... for your posts. It really does help a lot.
Julie


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