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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:55 pm 
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Hey everyone, here's my story. Had a car wreck was on Norco 10's @6/day for 8 years, lost my health care Insurance and the pain clinic wouldnt see me anymore without Insurance. I had to scramble to find a Doctor, found one but he wanted me to go on Methodone, I didn't want to but had no choice at the time. After almost 2 years on Methadone 60mg/daily I had enough and tried about7 times to get off of it. I would take Lortabs but eventually I would run out of money and then boom right back on the Methadone. I heard about Suboxone and here I am. I waited about 73 hours after my last Methadone at 10mgs, I tried to weam myself down to smaller and smaller dosages prior going onto Suboxone but I knew I prob rushed uit. But I just could not go on any longer on Methadone I hated it that much. I got my Suboxone yesterday the Doctor was seemingly a good guy asked all the right questions and warned me he would help me but not take painmedications. But I want to be 100% drug free for once in my life or the last 10 years anyway. I waited yesterday until I couldnt hold out any long, I had take 3 Lortab 10mgs earlier in the day but had to have something to get me up to the Suboxone clinic. I started out on Suboxone by sutting the films into 2mg pieces, I took one at 6pm waited 2 hours felt nothing and then took another 2mg at 8pm felt something but not enough and then 2 hours later I took another 2mgs of Suboxone at 11pm. I started feeling ill badly, dont know if it was precipitated withdrawals or what, but I had intense chills and sweat. So I waited 3 hours and then took another 8mg of Suboxone. The Doctor had suggested that i take the ful 8mg to start with but I started out low with the 2mgs. I did feel better but not right so I took another 8mgs this morning at 9am and I feel better, but still not right. In the last 30 hours I have had 32mgs of Suboxone and feel not normal but not into heavy withdrawals either. It felt like lastnight that I wasnt getting enough Suboxone to counter the previous Opiates in my system. I read on the www that Precipitated withdrawals can be overcome by taking more Suboxone but that is my story. I am holding out OK right now but need some advice. I am committed to sticking to this Suboxone because it is very expensive and I want to be drug free one day. But I also do not want to go thru withdrawals either....I think that I will hold steady right where I am at or until I start having WD symptoms again. I am sweaty and a bit nauseous but not terrible. What do you people think ????? Many Thnxxx


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 4:55 pm 
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here it is about 4pm thats 3 solid hours since my last post. I'm hanging in there feeling yucky but not too bad. I still get the sweats but am under a blanket in a 73 house, maybe I should feel a bit hot. But my hands are ice cold. I hope someone jumps n with some advice soon. I know I started too early but the withdrawals from the Methadone are worse than death, I used to go 5-6 days with nothing but after 6 months of that I can't do that anymore. So I went to Lortabs to hep the withdrawals of Methadone before strarting Suboxone. I prob have too much in me now but that is what it took to get the bad symptoms I had away and it worked somewhat. I will continue to ride this out and only take more Sub when I feel much worse. I started out with the 2mgs but they just were not enough for me. I am hanging tough though as nothing else matters but getting free of opiates completely...thnxx for reading this, any help is greatly appreciated !


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 6:47 pm 
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If I understood everything you said correctly, I don't think you went into precipitated withdrawals. You never mentioned getting sick immediately after taking the first 2 mg and that's when you would have become ill.

Are you taking the same amount every day at this point? I'd try that at first. You might actually have put yourself on too high a dose...What do your pupils look like?

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:09 pm 
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Hey thnxx so much for your reply, I was getting anxious if anyone was going to post. I waited as long as I thought I could and just took another 8mg film. Instantly I felt the sweats roll in but they left immediately. I am feeling better actually now after 30 minutes after taking the 8mg Sub. I'm a big guy at 270lbs at 6ft1inch, I just checked my pupils they seem ok, they dilate with light and get larger when it is darker so I think I am good to go there. I honestly think that I didn't have enough Sub in me when I first started taking it. Now that I just took 30 minutes ago another 8mg I feel better. The heat rose over me almost instantly but that subsided and now I do feel better, not high but I only want these withdrawal cravings to go away. I was on a heavy dose of Methadone for a year and half. I took it upon myself to try and get off the MEthadone, it is an awful drug or it was for me as it took 60mg for me to feel like the chemical need was filled, anything less than that just was not enough to make me feel decent. If that makes sense. I know what it is like to be high and the Methadone never made me high just wanting more of it until I got that 60mg dosage, then I was ok. But I never was prescribed that dosage so I would run out every month, take Lortabs,etc to stay away from the WD's. Thnxx for your help...


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Here it is an hour after I took the other 8mg film. I feel OK, honestly better than I have since I started the Sub. I wonder if I just wasn't dosing myself enough? I mean I am a big guy and used to have a fast metabolizism before I started these Methadones 2 years ago. I surely hope this is going in the right direction as I have fought this demon for over a year and honestly it has beat me down. I used to be able to go thru withdrawals for a long time without anything to help, but these last few months my strength has waned. If had only known about Suboxone I would have tried it 9 months ago. I hope it works, I WANT it to work. I know that I have to do the same amount of work. But then again I just want withdrawal symptoms to subside, this last 8mg film seems to have helped with that, I am still too hot for normal but the other WD indicators have yet to arise, now that may change in 30 minutes but here it is an hour after the last 8mg I took and I feel better than at any time during this Sub Journey put myself on.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Your tolerance had obviously gone way up and you need a higher dose. I'm glad you found what works for you.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:34 pm 
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Thnxx..I had read somewhere that some people do better with just a single dosage all day long rather than split into 2 dosages/day, any thoughts? So far so good with the amount that is in my system, I am sure there is too much but I think that I need the full 16mgs/day that the Doctor ordered. I tried to follow what I had read and heard on forums that said try a much lower dosage. That just didnt work for me, but this larger dosage does be seeming to work, however things could change ina heart beat. I know all too well about that. I just want to get regulated and start to feel better so that I can get back to work and my life again. Everytime I go thru withdrawals it takes such a toll on my body and also my mind too. I have all sorts of bad emotions of how stupid I am or why did I put my self thru this yet again. I know that I need to stay positive and fight the mental things when I have the chemical dosage figured out. But I think I am going to try the 16mg/day not sure about all at once or twice 8mg disages? Thnxx for your posts as you are the only one that has said anything to me on here.////


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:43 pm 
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It's clear to me that you need the higher dose and it is better to dose once per day. I'd suggest you take both films in the morning and be done with it for the day. Sub's long half life will easily hold you until the next day if not upwards of two days. Also, it's the best way to break the bad habit of taking a pill throughout the day just because we feel like we need it.

I hope this helps. And yes, things have been a bit slow around here today.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:07 pm 
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Thnxx for your replies they have made me feel better. If I was going thru the PrecipW/D I would be sick asa dog right now, but none of that just this sweaty sometimes cold feeling. I suppose it is coming off of all the other opiates that I had been taking. I made a huge mistake in getting on Methadone, for me at least it was a mistake because of the Doctor that I had. That is one drug that you need your Doctor to have your back, to listen to you and if you dont trust him with your life then do Not Ever get involved with Methadone. Now I start a new chapter and hopefully am on to the road to a clean living I can't wait. Maybe that is part of my problem as I am too impatient to feel better. I wanted to take as little as possible but as of right now that was the wrong way to go. I will start tomorrow with taking the full 16mg in the morning and see what that does for me, thnxx again so much for your posts nd concern....


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:06 pm 
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What was your methadone dose? I too am just starting subs , 3rd day now. I was also at 10mgs of methadone, but I was on 10mg for a while. 16mg is a HUGE dose of sub and I doubt you need that much, no offense to anyone else. Coming from methadone to suboxone is a strange beast. I too felt freezing cold (i think on the 2nd day), sat under a blanket and made chicken noodle soup. I actually found that the bigger the dose does not necessarily mean you will feel better. For me, I don't know if it is because of sub being a partial agonist or what, but taking more sub actually made me feel worse. I suggest you possibly.


Wohhm I just read that you took 32mgs within 30 hours. There is no way you need that much. Not unless you just came from like 200mg methadone. I highly suggest you try to wait until you feel real crappy and take 1mg. Give it an hour to kick in before trying to take more, you might be suprised, sometimes less is more.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 10:55 pm 
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Oh I agree that I have taken way too much Sub, I started at 2mgs which was way too little of a dosage. i was actually at 60 mgs of Methadone, my last few dosages I weaned myself down to a 10 mg dosage,then I took some Lortabs to counter the super heavy bad W/Ds you get when you stop taking Methadone. Here I am on my second day of Sub. I feel OK not great not totally sick like in Precip W/D either as I had worried about since I know that I took the Sub too early. But all in all I am going in the right direction. Last night when I was sweating profusely and then my hands as cold as Ice right now I am better from taking more Sub, not from Less. Maybe it is me or the situation. I know that I need to keep a close eye out on this, tomorrow I was thinking of doing the 16mgs of Sub al in the morning, I think that might be the best way to go, but the 3rd day I think that I could take just one 8mgs dosage. I will have to see how I feel. I was hoping this would go better, but all in all not so bad. Just so that I am not in heavy Withdrawals from the Methadone then I can handle it. But Thnxx for chiming in, the more knowledge that I have from people the better, I am totally new at this Sub so I need all the info and advice that I can get. You too hang in there, lets both beat the Methadone Monkey !!!


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:14 pm 
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Yeh, I hear ya. It seems like taking more sub makes me feel better, but then I still get weird actue methadone w/d poking its head up. Have you ever went through long term methadone withdrawals (like 5 or more days?)


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:17 pm 
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one day ata time------

I think what your experiencing, is pretty normal, going from methadone to suboxone. I too, made that switch, and it took about 24mg before I felt better, so dont stress, I think your on the right track!!!

Im pretty sure, my experience was about the same. I was definitely sweating alot the first few days, I TOTALLY remember that. Its been about a year ago, and I still take about 16mg a day.

methadone, is a whole other 'beast' I think, becuase it has a long half life as well.

I remember having tense muscles too the first few days. suboxone, not being a 'full blown' opiate, makes most of the w/d go away, but not all, in my opinion.

Just hang in there, your doing the rite thing, and definitely in the right place for information.

welcome,
and I hope your feeling better!!

dont be afraid to ask anymore questions you have. and try and keep an open mind, I think being on a maintenance dose of suboxone, beats chasing pills any day of the week!!!
I understand not wanting to do that if you dont have to, but maybe its not the worst thing afterall???

I always tell myself, being on suboxone, I AM 'drugfree' becuase anytime I have a thought/craving for getting high, I definitely DO NOT think about suboxone!!!

well, I rambled on longer than i had planned, have a great night!!!

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:27 pm 
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16 mg is at most on the high end of an average dose of suboxone. It's not a "HUGE" dose of sub. Many people are on that dose of suboxone for maintenance, so don't think that's an unusual dose, because it's not. Sub doses are very individualized based on one's unique tolerance, body chemistry, and cravings. If what the amount of sub was what it took to remove your withdrawals and 16 mg is what it will take to do that every day, then so be it! And don't compare that dosage - just a number - to anyone else's dose.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:59 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
16 mg is at most on the high end of an average dose of suboxone. It's not a "HUGE" dose of sub. Many people are on that dose of suboxone for maintenance, so don't think that's an unusual dose, because it's not. Sub doses are very individualized based on one's unique tolerance, body chemistry, and cravings. If what the amount of sub was what it took to remove your withdrawals and 16 mg is what it will take to do that every day, then so be it! And don't compare that dosage - just a number - to anyone else's dose.


Ill admit I skimmed the post and saw methadone and that he wanted to be drug free, if he is going to be on sub for forever then he might as well go with whatever dose makes him happy.

But honestly, this sounds exactly like what they tell you at the methadone maintenance places. I mean thats like saying 120mg of methadone is no different than 10mg, its just a number. No its not. The effects it has on your body while you taking it and the withdrawals are substantially different.

If you want to quit, then 16mg is a pretty large leap. I thought Dr. J even mentioned a max effect at 24 mg?
Bottom Line: If you want maintenance then 16mg is fine, if you want to quit any time soon, it is not. Yes every person is different, but 95% fall in the same boat.

Im not trying to say anything against you hatmaker, but those are the facts.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:04 am 
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Facts? I see opinions backed by zero facts. Anyone on maintenance can still taper off. That is a fact. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:09 am 
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In the first post you said the Dr. suggested 8mg to start, but you took 2mg. And you state the reason for seeking Suboxone was to be "100% drug free" -- from Methadone. Later in the post the amt taken is 32mg. I am wondering what the doctor thinks -- and has suggested. Is the doctor using Suboxone to help with the W/D of Methadone-- and have you agreed about how this is to proceed. I am unclear if you are working with the doctor on the plan or trying different levels to see how it works, or feels.

Once one has an Rx it is possible to do what you want. But I am just unclear if there is an agreed upon plan of action --between you and the Sub. Doc. If so, it might be helpful to people helping to know what that agreed upon plan is.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:00 am 
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Regarding what Sooverthis said in a recent post. It may indeed be true that anyone can taper to get off of Subs.
But that does not mean it is a simple matter. A recent tape by Dr. Junig (mp3 - for sale on site) is over an hour on the subject and i bought it and listened several times. He basically maintains that tapering from higher levels to around 4mg or 2 mg is a relatively easy thing. But from 2mg and below he recognizes the difficulties and recommend the help of several prescription drugs that might help in the process. He admits these might be hard to get prescribed as they are also addictive.

Tapering benzos is a long and complex matter. And based on the tapes Dr. Junig is producing Buprinorphine is proving to be a taper and cessation that is possible, better than off Methodone or Oxy for sure, but proving to be no easy thing for many who try. I think Dr. Junig would agree that the longer the time on Bup and the higher the dosage are correlated with harder quits.
He told me there are exceptions, some people have no trouble at all, and others have a great deal of trouble. He could not explain why there are these differences.

If i have stated this wrongly Dr. J will correct it I am sure. I think Sooverthis was making the point that if one has decided on a plan of quick taper, there is no good reason to stay on a course of medication for some time period with no good reason why. Good plans from the beginning are always a good thing - if one knows early on. An articulated plan between patient and doctor (often a written contract) has the best chance of success.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:37 am 
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sooverthis wrote:
Yeh, I hear ya. It seems like taking more sub makes me feel better, but then I still get weird actue methadone w/d poking its head up. Have you ever went through long term methadone withdrawals (like 5 or more days?)



I think this is what is happening to me. I still have the Methadone in my system and it is what is giving me these symptoms, I could be wrong. I was at 60mg Methadone for a while now, and Yes I should have tapered down to 30 mg sooner but I didn't. I did taper off of the Methadone to do the suboxone though occasional taking Lortabs to take the worst of the Methadone |W/|Ds away. If You haven't gone thru Methadone |W/Ds then you will never know the Hell it is. It is worse than anything that I have ever been thru. I have gone as long as7 days with nothing off of a 60mg Methadone dosage. That was Hell on Earth and I just could not do it again. Everytime I tried I failed and ended up taking Lortabs anything to get me thru until I could get some more Methadone. That was what kept me ok a 60mg |MEthadone dosage, not high or anything but the chemicals cravings went away at 60mg but I was never prescribed that. My old Doctor was a total jerk with Methadone he would yo yo me between 20-3-40 mgs Methadone at his will, whenever he wanted me to go up or down he would but would never listen to what I had to say about it. That is why I am here trying Suboxone, I wish that I had heard of Sub 9 months ago because my old Doctor was an animal to me with all that yo yoing. This NEw Suboxone Doctor told me to experiment at home with the Dosage. I started out at 2mg Sub because I wanted to do it right but that was not enough at all. Taking more Subs has made me feel better, thats the facts that could change when I take my next dosage but I dont think so. I fully realize that it might take me a year to get off of Suboxone or more but that beats getting off of Methadone ANY|DA|Y. That crap stays in your system forever. I have gone a week off of Methadone and it gets worse everyday. The Experts say it take 4-5 days then all the Methadone is gone in your system....HAHAHAHA....that is not true, it gets worse and worse by the day. It is a total Hell on Earth let me tell you when I would try to go Methadone free for a whole 7days...OMG...it was a 24 hour shake a thon. Hot cold, the shakes real bad, the runs, no appetite, no matter how much I tired I could not kick that. So Suboxone is my only answer right now and I am going to ride it out. I a going to try the full 16mg at one time on my next dosage, I think that will work and make me fell better. Like releasing the full effect of the Subs at one time. So far 8mg does good, but the MEthadone still has me in the withdrawal mode......Any help advice info is GREATLY appreciated..Many Many THNXXX


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:40 am 
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BTW Thnxx Amber and Everybody for weighing in..It does mean the world to me to have this to help me get thru this...I am trying my best..and yes it beats chasing drugs, anyday of the week. You dont know what your getting but with Suboxone you do !


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