It is currently Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:53 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 82 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:52 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Quote:
I think Dr. Junig would agree that the longer the time on Bup and the higher the dosage are correlated with harder quits.


Actually, Dr. Junig says the exact opposite. He says that staying on suboxone long term is the very best thing. He also says that there is NO evidence that staying on longer makes in any more difficult to come off suboxone. He further states that being on suboxone long term gives that person longer "practice" (so to speak), thereby making them that much MORE prepared when they do go off suboxone, making them more successful.

It sounds like you need to spend more time reading Dr. Junig's posts and blogs.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:40 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:56 am
Posts: 48
hatmaker510 wrote:
scruffy wrote:
I think Dr. Junig would agree that the longer the time on Bup and the higher the dosage are correlated with harder quits.

Actually, Dr. Junig says the exact opposite. He says that staying on suboxone long term is the very best thing. He also says that there is NO evidence that staying on longer makes in any more difficult to come off suboxone. He further states that being on suboxone long term gives that person longer "practice" (so to speak), thereby making them that much MORE prepared when they do go off suboxone, making them more successful.

It sounds like you need to spend more time reading Dr. Junig's posts and blogs.


I wonder if scruffy’s and hatmaker’s comments can be reconciled or reasonably distinguished, at least to some degree. Perhaps scruffy is emphasizing the potential downside to the body’s physical dependence on bup, whereas hatmaker is emphasizing the potential psychological and lifestyle benefits of longer-term bup use?

IMHO, it makes logical sense in the abstract that there is at least one point in time (perhaps several?) in a sub user’s history when the amount of time on sub and the quantity usage of sub do indeed affect the ability to quit. For example, what if a mild to moderate Vicodin addict used relatively low daily dosages of sub (say, 4mg to 6mg) for only the initial 7-10 day period that is commonly regarded as the toughest period for hydro w/d? In other words, just to help with the most intense short-term hydro cravings and w/d symptoms? Would such use create some physical dependency on sub?

[BTW, the foregoing hypothetical raises a question that has been on my mind ever since I started sub: how long does it take before the body becomes physically dependent on bup? Does anybody have a medically-sound answer to that? If so, I’d be very grateful to learn this.]

As I read hatmaker’s comments sentence by sentence, only the third sentence (“He also says that there is NO evidence that staying on longer makes in any more difficult to come off suboxone.”) appears to focus on the issues of physical dependence on sub and the difficulty of quitting. In hatmaker’s other comments, she seems to be extolling the virtues of using sub in order to have an extended period of time for addicts to engage in their addiction treatments while remaining free of intoxication from their DOCs. And that makes perfect sense to me, because I believe it can take a long time of qualified, professional counseling and concerted effort for addicts to become self-aware of their underlying addiction “triggers” and to make important, critical lifestyle and attitude changes in order to meaningfully reduce the risks of relapse.

Even if scruffy and hatmaker have differing opinions on an issue or two, I’ve read enough of their posts on this forum to know that they both have the very best of intentions. Unless composed at the length of a small book, even when carefully worded, written communications are rarely perfect expressions of thoughts and feelings. Perhaps I’m reading one or both of their posts incorrectly, but that’s how I read them anyway.

Since I’m butting in to express my opinions on certain matters, I’ll add that if Dr. Junig does indeed believe that “staying on suboxone long term is the very best thing,” then based on my own experience I would strongly disagree with that position, if such statement is meant to be a blanket, absolute rule or treatment philosophy for all bup patients. In my case, after consulting with two sub doctors and my psychologist (he’s treated me off and on for several years and knows me very well), the conclusion was reached that for my personality, life history, current life situation, etc., using sub in small quantities as a brief stepping stone to sobriety was “the very best thing” for me. I ended up ingesting less than 70 mg (total) of sub over a 20-day period, and quit taking it on the 21st day, with the unanimous blessing of my doctors. Does this mean I’ll never use sub again? No! If I need it, I’ll use it, for years if that’s what it takes to keep me from relapsing.

Just my opinions. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:22 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:41 pm
Posts: 114
Can we keep this thread on topic about my induction and not about the other, thanks. I took 16mgSub at once at 7am this morning. At first nothing seemed to happen as it did before. No wave of heat swept over me, nothing. Man was I pissed thinking that oh lordy here I have done something wrong. But after about an hour I could tell a very slow reaction, and now here it is 10am some 3 hours later and I feel much better. This is exactly what I should have done and my theory all along that I was not taking enough to ward off the Methadone withdrawals was correct. This is the best I have felt yet. Now take into account that my last 2 doses have been about 12 hours apart. I did start out on a very low dose9compared to what I am taking now) I started out at 2 mg. I am def going in the correct direction, I'll have to see how long this lasts but hopefulyl it will last all day. I also think that I can drop down to a lower dose when the Methadone wears off and out of my system. Thnxx so much for all of your help, I think this Suboxone might be the thing that helps me take back my life !!


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:28 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
I'm so glad you feel better and have found what you need. It's good to give yourself about a month to stabilize and then you can drop your dose to see if there's a lower dose that will hold your w/d and cravings at bay. But try to give yourself time and your body to adjust before messing with the dose too soon. Allow your body some stability. And yourself some stability as well. You're doing great and keep up the good work.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:57 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:02 am
Posts: 166
W/D is the worst thing in the world. When you are in it the only thing that matters is making it go away. I know what you mean - so of course you do what works. Be as careful as you can, but of course you need to do what is necessary to make hell stop. When you feel better you can take all the debates and facts into account and make long term plans. You do not need a debate. Feel as good as you can and I hope you leave the Methadone in the dust.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:35 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 1:03 pm
Posts: 43
hatmaker510 wrote:
Facts? I see opinions backed by zero facts. Anyone on maintenance can still taper off. That is a fact. I'm not sure what you're getting at.


Once again, warning, I have not read all the posts in here. I still feel like half a pound of thinly sliced arsehole so I am kind of picking and choosing.

Fact, the more you use the worse the withdrawals. If anyone says differently then they are on the same plain of thought that black might actually appear as white with different light in an alternate universe, get it, f**** loony.

And hatmaker, Dr. J saying there are no studies(evidence) to show that staying on bupe for a long time makes it harder to get off of does not mean that it isn't so. He is just saying there aren't studies that show it. Just like there aren't studies that show that methadone is any harder to come off of than hydrocodone. They just don't exist because there isn't money to be made by the Suboxone company by providing data that shows staying on their drug longer is a bad thing.

It all depends on the person, if you are using Sub to get OFF of something like methadone where theoretically you have already stabilized your life then long term use is NOT indicated. IM SURE DR. J WOULD AGREE.

What Dr. J is saying, is that for example, if you are a heroin user, it makes no since for you to try to go from sticking needles in your veins to trying to be completely clean by using subs for 2 weeks. The drug seeking/using behavior your so used to can't be changed in that short of a period of time. Long term is better in that person.

If you have already stabilized your life, like with methadone, then there is no reason to take suboxone for longer than necessary, unless you want to be on it for the rest of your life because you don't have the ability to stop using dugs. Which there is nothing wrong with, I honestly don't know if I personally will be able to make it through the PAWS or whatever you want to call the continued withdrawals from methadone.

Basically you only use something like suboxone or methadone for the long term if you are using to the forcibly prevent you from using other drugs.

But one day at a time, I feel for anyone trying to come off methadone. Bottom line, do what makes you comfortable at first, if you don't get to a reasonable state of mind it makes it hard to plan the coming weeks. Make it through the first 7 or 8 days before you worry about trying to take the least amount of sub possible, while keeping in mind, don't use extra because more is always worse and will make things down the road more difficult.


Facts & my 2 pennies mixed about. As always with the internets take it for what its worth, but I personally think my pennies are shinier ;) Good luck and stay strong!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:52 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:41 pm
Posts: 114
I'm still ok after that 16 mg dos of Sub, it definitely worked to make me feel better to take more, meaning the 16mg daily dose the doctor ordered, I was at first trying to take allot less than that. I started at 2mg and kept at it every2-4 hours I would add another 2mg of Sub but that didn't do much to make the Methadone WDs come on full strong. Now after taking the 16mg Sub dose at one time I am feeling better, not OK mind you but not a full blown WD either. I do have headache as so many people do. That I hope goes away, I dont want to fight headaches all the time on Sub. I hope that within a week things wil settle down and the Methadone will continue to get out of my system and I can get back to a somewhat normal life. Now I am a vegetable in my own home. I stay inside just watching videos and trying to feel better. Any advice would be great, many many Thnxxx!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:23 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Try spitting out instead of swallowing after the medication (film or tablet) dissolves. That takes care of the headaches for many of the people. It's thought to be caused by the naloxone and it's hardly absorbed at all sublingually and only a little when swallowed, it's thought, so to be on the safe side, people spit it out to reduce those headaches. It works for many, many people.

Good luck and I hope it helps.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:06 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:02 am
Posts: 166
One day,

For what it is worth-- at induction I had headaches- and I have hardly had 4 in my lifetime. I told the Dr. and he switched my Rx to a formulation with no naloxone. Just Bup alone-- all I need or want. The headaches left. It is thought as was said that it is the naloxone getting in-- it is not supposed to be taken in through the mouth- but who knows, some of us may have micro abrasions on the gums or some way to get into the bloodstream.

The official number is that 15 percent of those taking Suboxone have a problem with the naloxone--headache.

It might work to spit it out--can't hurt--if it is getting in through the stomach some way. An ulcer maybe.

Doctors are supposed to give you the version with no Naloxone if you are pregnant or get severe headaches or a dizzy feeling. Not all doctors do this. The naloxone has no medicinal value- just a guard against abuse.

For most forced to stay on Suboxone, the headaches subside with time.

S


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:23 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:41 pm
Posts: 114
Thnxx "Hatter" I might try that next time. This the best I have felt since I have been on the Suboxone, nto that I feel normal mind you but if I felt juss a little better then I would be there. I sure hope that it is only a matter of getting the Suboxone into my system for me to start feeling myself again. I need to get back to work on with my life. How long does it take before one gets stabilized on the Suboxone? I can imagine that it all depends on what you are coming off of and what amount you were taking before. I took some aspirin and my headache went away for the most part. But I'll try the spitting exercise..lol..next time.....Thnxx Again, it feels good to have yall giving me advice and support !!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:59 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:48 pm
Posts: 1346
Location: oregon coast
hey there one day......
Glad your feelin beter and better :wink:

first, the headaches subsided for me after about a month I think. I didnt try spitting, becuase I didnt have acess to the internet when I first started treatment.

second,
i transitioned from a fairly high dose of methadone to sub, and the MAJORITY of the w/d from methdone was gone after 20 days. I just skimmed thru my journal :roll:
I still however, had the occasional day where all of a sudden I'd break out into a sweat, months later. BUT one thing I will say is those days get fewer and further btween with time. methadone, is its own lil monster, I think.

So you can look forward to week 3 or so with all that crap gone. In my journal I did write quite a few times that the more days on sub, the LESS I felt the w/d though.

So I hope that helps.
Keep on truckin'
your doing great :wink:

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:27 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:41 pm
Posts: 114
Thnxx Amber, I too have been keeping a journal of all this. I started out after a bad car wreck, spent the next 8 years taking Norcos and doing great. Bought 2 new cars, a house had a great life. I lost my Healthcare right when the economy took a dump and my life did too. The next pain Doctor I went to put me on Methadone I didnt want to go on it but at the time I didnt have a choice. I was out of medication and didnt want to go thru withdrawals and then try and fine a doctor. Im single and doing this all on my own. I want off of everything. I don't know how this is going to play out with my back injury. I had major surgery to fuze 2 vertebrae so only time will tell. but I want to be drug free. I have been searching for the last year to find some help to get off of Methadone. My Pain Doctor is a total Joke, he yo yo-ed me with the Methadone sometimes 2 sometimes 3 sometimes 4 /day per month. I never was on a decent dosage as he toyed with me to get me hooked on Methadone. The most insidious drug out there as it stays in your body for so long. If I had known about the Methadone I would have suffered thru withdrawals and found another doctor way back when. But thru chance and drug friend that helped me get Lortabs when I would run our of Methadone he told me about Suboxone. Crazy thing is that guy was a total liar snake, took peoples money, stole, cheated, etc, all to feed his habit. BUT if I had never come across that snake I would have never known about Suboxen, when I did some research I jumped at the chance to get on it and off of Methadone. I was up to a 60mg Methadone habit before calling it quits. I will endeaver to keep at this Suboxone because I so WANT to be free of that Monkey, that Shadow always following me around, whispering in my ear..Hey You, don't you just want to feel better?????Thnxx so MUCH, You-All are the BEST..It does means so much to be here all alone and getting your help !!!!
So far the 16mgs/day of Suboxone at one time feels like it will do it. I think maybe a little more would help but the Doctor only prescribed the 16mg/day so I am stuck until I see him in 2 weeks. I def will take all of your advice here and there about certain issues, again, many many THNXXXX!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 3:03 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:41 pm
Posts: 114
So far so good, here it is 15 hours since my last dose. I am hoping that this keeps going in the right direction as it appears to be. I was very concerned when I took my last dose and nothing seemed to happen for an hour or so but then it finally did start to make me feel better. Before all my Sub doses started immediately to have an effect on me. I suppose that the Sub is now getting fully involved into my system so the effect is not as intense as it once was. I have def been keeping a journal and my doses on a chart so as to keep up with them. I am here at home all alone except for my my pup my Great Pyrenees Angel Girl, she too is going thru her heat cycle and it is only her second one. The poorp thing is such a mess not knowing how to act but she is hanging tough near me all the time as she knows that I am not feeling too good. She is my Angel as I rescued her last year from our terrible Torndo swarm that you must have heard about. I rescued her from one of my friends centers, her story is incredible as the house Angel girl was in was hit by an F4 Tornado, both the Humans Man/Wife, died, Angel Girls Mother and Sister too were all killed and throw far far away from the house when the Tornado hit. Even today Angel girl has panic attacks when it storms, Thunder being the worse as she shakes so badly that I have to hold her to give her comfort. So we both she and I have been gong thru this Mental anguishes of our won together. Angel girl is such a sweet heart and I Love her so much, she wont leave my side now, laying beside my lazy chair or hopps in bed with me when I lay down to snuggle with me to make me feel better. if it wasnt for Her and You people to give me info and adice then I mgith nt have made it. I am stuck here at home alone with no help save a neighbor that will take my to the Grocfery for supplies. I am runing low on stuffs so hopefulyl tomorrow I will feel better so that I can go to the store for food and drink. My appetite is coming back, as well as my colon is finay starting to work since the Methadone is wearing off. The last year I have been so constipated forever hardly ever ging to the bathroom and struggling when I went. Sorry for the Too much Detail at that point. but my life has been a living Heel for the last year. I havent worked that much, but thankfully I own my own home and business. My clients have been gracious to me they do not know my situation only that I have had medical problems. I am so tired of having to STRETCH the truth, hate going to the Pharmacy and looked at like a Junky, My Family has been supportive but they too act like I am a junky and that I should be able to control this better than I have been. They do not know, even though my mother is/was an RN..retired now she doesnt give me much if any sympothy as her son is in her eyes a junky cause he got hooked on Pain pills after a horrific car accident. AThat is the worst of it to not have the |Emotional support system around on stanby when you need just an encouraging word here and there. All I ever got was disgust and non-empathy cause I brought this on myself. But I once read that people in our situation DONT really have a CHOI|CE. The 2 choices are too go thru Withdrawals or give in and Take the Opiates...What a Choice that is..damn if you do Damn if you dont !!!


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 7:46 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:52 pm
Posts: 519
Location: CA
Awww that's so sad that Angel girl gets anxiety when it storms. I would too after being through an F4 tornado!! She's lucky to have you, someone who was willing to love her and help her out when her family died.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:27 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:41 pm
Posts: 114
yes, Angel has a pretty bad story but a very good one now, all in all she is very well behaved and Loves people, such a sweet heart. I took my daily 16mg dosage of Sub all at once at 10am this morning and I feel ok so far. I just woke up from a nap, I try to stay still and let the medication take effect and also try to notice how it works on me. So far so good, but time will tell about today, yesterday was the best yet so i am hoping today will be better, that would be an awesome sign that yes indeed each day will get better and better, that is what I am dreaming and hoping for. I waited a total of 20 hours between these doses, which is good I think. I am runing out of food so maybe today I will feel up to going to grocery store, my Doctor told me to get an hour of cardiac exercise into each day, thats not gonna happen until I get stabilized...lol...but it is something that I am going to do religiously for sure. What about the rest of you, how are you doing today ????


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:51 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:41 pm
Posts: 114
I have a question that maybe someone can answer.....Is it OK to take Ambien to help in sleeping ? I am not having a terrible time of it sleeping that is but I would like to get on a schedule, right now I stay awake til very too late at night and then end up sleeping way too long into the day. So I wanted to know if it was OK to take an Ambien for a few days to get regulated on my sleep patterns....????....Thnxx


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 8:28 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 1:03 pm
Posts: 43
Try melatonin if you want to adjust your sleep pattern. You can consider melatonin and ambien if the melatonin isn't strong enough. But you must be VERY careful taking ambien because of respiratory depression.

Buy the "Nature Made" brand only. This is the only brand that is certified to actually have what it says it has in it.

Do not take more than a regular dose or less of ambien and if you are going to take it try to take your suboxone early in the morning, basically seperate the time you take the suboxone and the time you take the ambien by as much as possible.

But try melatonin first. Using something like ambien with solid doses of suboxone can cause you to DIE, and that gets to be not very fun.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 8:35 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:41 pm
Posts: 114
If Ambien is that Dangerous then forget that..I'll try the Melatonin, I have never heard of Melatonin for Sleep, but will give it a try. Here it is 9 hours after my 16mg Sub dose and all is OK, still not 100% by any means but maybe a tiny bit better than yesterday. These last 2 days I have been on the 16 mg dosage and it seemingly is doing ok. I was on such a large dose of Methadone before that I am surprised that 16mg Sub is working. The other day I was at 32mg of Sub and was a bit dopey but not any better than I feel now. Hopefulyl this icky feeling is the Methadone WD's leaving my system. I sue hope that it keeps on getting better and better, so far so good. But I dare not jinx this at all. I want this and NEED this to work so badly. I have to have my life back ASAP !!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 8:42 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 1:03 pm
Posts: 43
Sub isn't going to make you 100%. I think you are expecting to feel too good from it, no offense. Would you be okay being 70% for a few days while you adjust?

With doses like 16mg and 32mg I wouldn't play with benzo type drugs if you have never taken them. If you are going to do it anyways, then please try 1/4s of a pill at a time. I say that just for harm reduction in case you are going to take it anyways.

I think sleep is melatonin's only or primary use. Try a 10mg dose.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 8:56 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:41 pm
Posts: 114
Thnxx for the Melatonin dosage info I'll try it for sure. yes I take my 16mgSub in the early morning that's it. ....SoOverthis, I started out at a too low dose of Sub at 2mg, and kept every 3-4 hours trying a little more and then ended up taking too much within a 36 hour window. I also wanted to see what the 32 mg would do for me cause honestly I felt like crap. In my previous attempts to ward off Methadone WDs ... Lortabs did a much better trick for making the Methadone WDs go away then this Suboxone did on my first few days. But I am sick and tired of that route I want something more permanent for sure and Suboxone is my Journey right now and I'll stick to it until it does me wrong. Coming off of a heavy 60mg/day of Methadone is no easy task. I expect it to take a while to get this Methadone out of my system fully, hopefully not 6 months. If you picked up ona cue of mine then that is my worry is that after 3 months or so I am not feeling ok then yes I worry about that. I do have staying power and on this train til the end but I do want and need to feel better. This Suboxone treatment is VERY Expensive as I have no Health Insurance so I need to get back to work, but I am not rushing that. I'll leave it at that as I dont want to rush into worrying too much, one day ata time right now. So far so good !!! I wish I felt better but dont we all, if I feel a tiny bit better tomorrow then I am satisfied. Thnxx for the info and advise..I appreciate it very much !!!! Thnxxx


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 82 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
cron
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group