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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:00 am 
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I have been lurking for a cpl weeks and finally decided to sign up. I dont think I could have made it without reading all of your inspiring stories!
My story starts the same as a lot of yours. Ruptured a disc at 22 and went from vicodin to oxys within a cpl of years. Was able to detox on my own a couple of times and then it just got way out of control. My breakfast each day consisted of 2 80mg Oxys and at my peak I was doing up to 8 a day. For the past year I have been doing methadone for maintenace but still abused it on occasion. Finally I switched to suboxone. I have 3 small children and I carry a lot of guilt about using and being a mom. My rock bottom was snorting a giant pile of oxys and looking over and seeing my 2 yr old staring at me. That was it for me...
Suboxone has been a miracle drug for me. I am me again! I cant believe it took me this long to make the call! Its been over 2 weeks since starting suboxone and I really feel incredible.
Just wanted to introduce myself and say Thank you to all of you who share your stories and offer support to all on the boards. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:45 am 
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Hi lulu and welcome. It's nice to have you here - I'm glad you decided to post. I've been around here for about two years and the people here have given me so much support. I hope we can do the same for you - I'm sure of it.

Good on you for stopping the craziness and starting sub. I'm happy that you're doing so well on it. Isn't it amazing the change we see in ourselves from starting it?

Try not to be so hard on yourself for your addiction. We're human and not perfect and addiction is a disease. The important thing is you realized what was going on and you took positive action. That speaks very highly of you. Try to focus on that and move forward from the past.

Again, welcome and I hope to see you posting more. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:57 am 
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I'm glad you decided to sign up and I'm also glad you found inspiration through reading the stories from this forum!!

OC's were my favorite too. It got to the point where snorting an 80 wouldn't even get me a buzz. I knew I was in deep doo-doo then.

Suboxone saved me too. It gave me the chance to drop all my 'druggie' buddies, get my head screwed on straight and get into serious recovery. Just a quick note, Suboxone alone will not get you to where you need to be (IMO). For most of us, Suboxone is the first giant step into recovery, I would encourage you to attend AA or NA or Smart Recovery or work with a counselor. Suboxone plus counselling has the greatest success rate.

Again, I'm very glad you found your way to Suboxone.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:26 pm 
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I don't mean to be pissy or confrontational, but Dr. Junig has shared studies with us that indicate people who add counseling to sub treatment actually do not have higher success rates. Now, that does not mean that therapy/counseling isn't valuable. It's been extremely valuable to me - changed my life in fact. But it was valuable to me way before my addiction or addiction remission. The thing is, addiction is considered by many to be a disease, one that is often compared/equated to others like diabetes or high blood pressure. Such diseases don't usually require counseling as an adjunct to their medical treatment.

Again - and I cannot stress this enough - I'm NOT saying counseling isn't valuable or helpful. In fact it can be when it comes to dealing with cravings and triggers IF the person won't be staying on maintenance. I'm only saying this because I know how important this particular subject is to Dr. Junig as well as making sure the site provides accurate information.

Therapy should be considered by the individual but isn't necessarily needed by everyone in order to succeed. That's all I'm saying.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:01 pm 
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Hey Hat,

I actually meant to put "I have no evidence to back up the counselling statement I just made, but it worked for me" at the end of my second to last paragraph, but I forgot.

I don't think you were being pissy at all. I think you explained yourself very nicely in your latest reply.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:52 pm 
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Thanks for the warm welcome! I have spent many years in therapy but do plan on attending AA as I have heard NA is basically a place to score. I'm managing my cravings pretty well...I have 3 kids and a business that keep me pretty busy so I am usually able to refocus. The biggest problem for me is that my mom is an active addict and my best friend is at well.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:09 pm 
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lulubelle,

Hi! Welcome to the forum. I initially found this site while looking for information about Suboxone. At that point, I still hadn't decided if this medication would be part of my recovery or not. This forum, along with Dr Junig's other sites provide a wealth of information about Suboxone and addiction/recovery. I encourage you to watch Dr. Junig's videos. They answered many questions I had about the medication. After I began Sub treatment, this forum became a huge part of my recovery. Im sure if you keep visiting, you'll find that the support you recieve here is incredible!

I totally understand what you'r going through with you'r mother and best friend both being addicts. My mother suffers from Lupus, COPD, Gulf War Syndr., ....basically, she's really sick. She truly does need pain medication. She's absolutely addicted though. It's really hard to be there for her, help care for her/spend time with her, and not feel like Im jeopordizing my recovery. It's difficult, but especially in the beginning, it's important to distance and even cut out people from you'r life whom are using. This disease is so hard to manage. I feel confident that with the Sub, and support (whether it be this forum alone or some type of counseling, or meetings) that you will succeed! And don't beat yourself up about what you did while in active addiction. I still have memories that haunt me too. But, your doing the right thing now....and thats WHAT COUNTS. Good luck, and please keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:57 pm 
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:D it saved a lot of us. I don't know why bug either way about counciling or not. Bla bla your already on your way. The thing about sub is you can fit in anywhere you want now and be just like any other person. Im sure you are smart enough to do what is right. If you care enough about your child to feel as bad as you did when she saw you you have a good heart. Launch questions you have on this site but for a good educated answer donate some money to Junig to answer your questions and you will get one of the most educated sub and psych drs there are.the rest will be strictly opinion including mine. Good luck. You have it beat now

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:24 pm 
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Welcome to the site and I am glad sub is working for you.

I am however confused..we want to make sure we provide the correct information on this website. So for the two years I have been on here and this site has consistently touted that suboxone alone is not a cure all. That we need some type of counseling, therapy or 12 steps to be sucessful but now Dr. J says we don't need that? Did I read that right..........are you kidding me? What are the studies on this or is this just Dr J's. opinion. I don't understand so now suboxone is the only thing that is needed for opiate recovery.We don't need to find the root cause of why we do what we do...we don't have to make amends for our wrongdoing......we just take suboxone. Someone please clarify this one for me cause I can't wait to share with my dr that studies show I don't have to go to AA or therapy anymore and here is the evidence. Please tell me I read this wrong.

Jim


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:35 pm 
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welcome to the forum!! i know how suboxone can help in changing your life and im glad that you made the decision to make that change. good luck to you!!

as for what reraise just said....i kind of feel the same way...every forum that i post on is all about the therapy and counseling or AA/NA and they all say it is an important part of recovery. i guess what hatmaker and romeo might have been saying is that it isnt proven that it helps us to not relapse but i would think there would be some sort of connection or else it wouldnt be required by most docs.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:56 pm 
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Hey Jim, here's the link to that info you were looking for about not needing meetings while on suboxone.

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3725

BTW, to be clear, I absolutely believe suboxone and counselling work best together, I just don't have any proof of it. That's what I was saying.

I've said it many, many times on this forum, if it weren't for my counselling I'm sure I would have used again, even when I was on suboxone.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:25 pm 
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Reraise you can't go by what she says. Dr j did not word this the way that hatmaker wrote it. I hope somebody can write it better than it was wrote by hat. Sorry hat ,just don't want dr j quoted incorrectly or half way to where somebody would get confused. Some things in my opinion should not always be answered. I believe the girl was just wanting some praise for how good she had done going from 400 mgs of oxy to sub. Sorry if I sound like a trouble maker everybody. 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:12 am 
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I agree with ReRaise and Bitzy....I wrote about this last week when that article was posted...asking if I had read it wrong. Dr. J. DID in fact say exactly that in the article.

I asked for clarification as well, but didn't get any response. I was confused as Dr. J tells his story as AA saved his life and that there was no Sub when he got clean (and I also got clean without sub the first time and also with AA/NA). I am very confused by the recent article. I'd love to see the studies especially since we hear over and over from Dr. J that opiate addiciton is such a protracted disease and the numbers in long term recovery are so low...if that is the case then we need to do everything possible to add to our recovery, not just Sub. I personally don't think Sub is a cure all. My opinion.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:22 am 
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I took pain pills because they made me high. Ok I liked the feeling. Ok now ten years later I take the Suboxone and im normal. I go to church. Jesus is in me and I love God. Im one of those people that dr.j was speaking of when he said a lot of people don't need counciling. If I would have went to counciling to find out wow I like the feeling of pain pills where does that get me? Sub stops my pain and it is not abusable what more need explaining china??? P.s.love you china girl

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:14 am 
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It's funny how all through school we are taught mathematics, english, science, geography, social studies, etc., but we are never really taught to learn about ourselves and what makes us tick. As far as I'm concerned, counseling is just a fancy word that means "learn what makes you tick." Who on earth wouldn't want an 'owners manual' for their brain? Doesn't everybody want to understand themselves better? Doesn't everyone want to know why they act and behave the way the do?

Wade, you might not be in counseling per se, but isn't that the function that your church and your relationship with God are doing for you? I know, through my relationship with God and going to church when I do, I learn boatloads about myself. So, you may say you don't need counseling, but I think you're getting it anyway through your relationship with God. Isn't that a big component of faith, constantly striving to become a better person and trusting that the Lord is helping you?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:46 am 
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I really don't want this thread to be further highjacked away from lulu, but it seems it's already gone off track and people are looking for my reply.

I thought my post was pretty clear. I stated how valuable I thought therapy was. I also clearly stated that Dr. J has shared with us many times (including in different posts on this forum) how he feels about it and that he's shared at least one study on the subject that showed adding therapy to bupe treatment didn't increase the odds of success. (I'm in the process of searching for that study.) Romeo pasted the link to Dr. J's most recent blog post that included information on the subject. For ease and clarity, here's an excerpt from that blog post:

Quote:
Counseling—cure or crock?
Much is made of the need for counseling in addition to buprenorphine. Again, I agree with the need for counseling in some cases, particularly in young people, or those with polysubstance dependence. But I take issue with practitioners who require that every patient engage in weekly group therapy for an indefinite period of time. From the stories I’ve received, it seems that no thought is given to the type of therapy, the education of the ‘therapist,’ or even whether or not the type of therapy is consistent with the use of buprenorphine! Instead there is a blind assumption that therapy is inherently good, without any effort to determine whether or not the therapy improves outcomes. I am amused when I read studies that show no significant effect of counseling on outcome, but then conclude that counseling is a good idea– in spite of the findings of the study. I see wisdom in the requirement for certification to prescribe buprenorphine that counseling services be available, rather than mandating counseling in all cases. Some practitioners appear to miss the distinction.


I have a great deal of respect for scientific studies, Dr. Junig, and the fact that this is his forum. So yes, I'm trying to present accurate information, just as others on this site have done time and time again (one member particularly I'm thinking of.)

Lastly, it's extremely disrespectful not to mention rude for any member to tell others not to listen to what someone says. This kind of thing has rarely happened here, because even when there are disagreements between members, everyone usually shows at least a minimum level of respect for each other. That's one of the reasons this site is so great. Aside from personal attacks or insults, everyone has a right to speak freely. If anyone doesn't want to read something from a particular person, then don't, but it's unacceptable to tell others not to listen to that person.

I hope I've made myself more clear to everyone's satisfaction. Now I'd like to return the conversation back over to Lulu and apologize to her for this thread getting off track the way it has.

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 Post subject: Welcome to the Site....
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:42 am 
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Hi there LuLu....
Welcome to the Forum and thank you for your Honesty! You are a power of Example and more proof the Suboxone saves lives!!!! I can only tell you how I am going about my Recovery!! Your Recovery will no doubt be different! My Recovery is a joint effort between ME and the people that I think Help me Stay Clean (and in my case Sober as well). In my case that is My Rx of Suboxone and the Dr. that writes that script My counselor, and ALL my AA group members... Also I Do go to counseling once a week and on Top of that I go to 2 AA meetings a day and spend as much time as possible out here. This is where I feel most comfortable! Some of the people here have been with me from day 1. And some even before I got Clean!!!! IMHO you need to do what feels best for YOU! If that's counseling once a week or 4 times a week doesn't matter. What matters is that you are able to fight the disease of addiction with as many tools as needed and that WE here Support you in any way that we can!!! Keep up the good work! your doing great keep it up... :)

God Bless !
TW

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:18 pm 
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Romeo at church I learn how to serve others and be the way that is acceptable to God,pay my tithe and so forth. I dont go to find out what makes me tick. Everybody is differant and everybody dosent need counciling (pretty basic concept) They do have extra classes for alcoholics and such but I don't attend that part.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:07 pm 
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No worries..I think everyone is passionate about whatever worked or is working for them. Thanks again to everyone. I just got home from a night away with my family and it was so nice to not have to sneak around and worry about how I was gonna get pills. I just cannot get over how normal I feel!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:22 pm 
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Hey lulubelle,

I remember that feeling of not having to sneak around and not having to worry about where my next pills were going to come from too. It is a GREAT feeling!!

Glad to hear you're doing so well!!


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