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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:47 am 
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anginapain wrote:
Suboxone is 100% effective in blocking other opiates from working if you are on a
high enough dose ie. 8mg two times per day or more. If you go under that you
do risk being able to "get off" on other opiates.



When I had my last liver biopsy, I was on 6mg of suboxone. They told me to stop taking it three days prior to the procedure, so I did. When the time came for the procedure, I was in withdrawal already, albeit, mild withdrawal. Anyway, the way they collect a sample of your liver is they use a large needle and go between two ribs with it. Very painful without any meds. That day, through my IV, they gave me -according to the surgeon- "enough Fentanyl to knock out a rhinoceros" and guess what?

I didn't feel a thing. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

In fact, there was so much pain from the needle that they had to abort the procedure because I was flopping around on the bed like a fish out of water from the pain.

I'm NOT trying to argue with you at all, just giving my own personal experience.

And having had that Fentanyl I was afraid to take my suboxone that night, but I took it anyway, and guess what?

No precipitated withdrawals, so there may be some merit to the idea that not everyone in every case will experience PW if they take suboxone too soon after having taken opiates.....I think it may have something to do with how LONG you have been taking the opiates, as others have suggested.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:06 am 
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When it comes to having surgical procedures you better have a pain doc that knows what there doing or you will be hurting I'm having a lumbar fusion on Oct 20 and I was terrfied about pain control and I was in pain any way I went to ER to get some meds 1 shoot of Daladid and pain gone high as a plain then they gave me Vics to tke with the Valium I was tacking for sleep and spasms works great and whent to pain doc the next day she is also the anthesialigist can't spell that well the one that will put me to sleep. She said wo wo wo don't worrie I and the surgen have already talked and you going to need more painmeds than all the people in the ortho floor by your self she did here home work wow was I relived she said I will wake up in no pain and if she for some reason can't get my pain under control she said she will put me back to sleep I said when should I stop tacking it the Subs she said don't take it that morning why would you want to go through withdraw I don't she said so don't take it the day before.She said I will need enuff to kill a dinosour and she will be sending me home with oral Diladid never had that oral and somthing called Opana IR and ER so I looked it up and I wanr go through no pain thank GOD she did tell me to stop tacking my vics flushed them right there and take the Subs and I did and got a real good buzz sorry havent had that in a long time except the ER. So back on the farm you can take pain meds here and there and not all will go through withdraw but I would not recomend it.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:08 pm 
donh.....Very nice explanation! Makes total sense to me now!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:37 pm 
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SetMeFree, with your knowledge-base and years as an RN, I'm sure you understood it well prior to my long story about it. But thanks for the compliment.

Junkie: One of the likely reasons you had no problem taking Sub after receiving a truck-load of Fentanyl is that Fentanyl has about the shortest half-life of any narcotic out there. It is super-strong - being about 100 times stronger than morphine (per mg) - but while morphine will work and last for about 4 hours, Fentanyl will give you pain relief for only about an hour at best. In fact, I have read often that Fentanyl doesn’t even often show up in drug screens due to its extremely short half-life. Don't confuse this with Fentanyl patches as for a lot of reasons they can hang on longer and will show in a drug screen. I'm talking about the IV Fentanyl that you received. It was very likely, mostly, out of your system by the time you took the Sub. The more interesting thing (to me, anyhow) is my Sub doc, who is also an anesthesiologist, swears that Fentanyl will get past the Suboxone block better than any other drug - or so he claims. Given your case, I have to wonder how true that is? I have to have my wisdom teeth pulled (at 47) and our plan is if I am in too much pain I'll come in for some IM Tordal (shot in the muscle) and Fentanyl IR lollipops - which he claims will break through my Sub. Reading what happened to you - I really wonder about that. Anyhow, Junkie, it is very likely that the amount of Fentanyl in your body had dropped low enough on the “1 to 10 scale” that taking Sub didn’t do anything bad to you.

Honestly, most humans are about the same in the way these drugs will effect them. What makes all the difference is the drug you have been taking, how strong it is, how long it lasts and how much of it you take. That is where the variable is. Those things will change as the dose and drug change. Most of us will react to that drug in the same way and most of us will have Suboxone effect us in the same way.

This whole area of pain medication and Sub is really fascinating to me. The thing is, the more I research and read, the more I am coming to the conclusion that the only way you are somewhat guaranteed of getting pain relief from opiates if you are on Sub is to be in withdrawals. If you are not in withdrawal, the Sub is still in your system and still blocking the opiates. Once you are in withdrawal, the Sub is not in your system (at therapeutic levels) and therefore opiates are able to bind to your receptors. This is not fact – it is just my theory. Unfortunately, the more I read and learn, the more I think I may be correct about this.


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