It is currently Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:50 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:03 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:59 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Carson City, Nevada
I don't think it's unfair in any way to point out inconsistencies in this whole thing. When I got onto Sub, I was told clearly that when you stop at 2 mg, you have no withdrawal. Not lesser w/d than heroin. No withdrawal. Of course, that was back in '05. That was my first doctor's story. Now I'm on my third doc and have grilled him on getting off Suboxone. He said "To be honest, we are not taught about discontinuing Suboxone. Mainly, what we are taught now is maintenance." I've gathered from all the first and secondhand information I've gathered over these years on Sub that this is pretty much what happened. First, docs were taught to stop people at 2 mg. That didn't work very well for many people. Then, the story changed to maintenance only.

I've called the Here to Help people. I'm supposed to ask my doctor how to taper off Sub, but he's supposed to get his information from R&B, although they aren't teaching him anything but maintenance. Now, I'm not getting angry at other people for my own decision, but do I have no right to point out that I was quite mislead when starting this medication? I know that I'm not the only one, though I wish I was. If this is a medication that is prescribed with no exit strategy, then people seriously have the right to know that when they start taking it. On this forum, we've learned an exit strategy, but this is not a result of anything the the Sub makers have taught Sub doctors. What about all the poor folks who don't find this site and are trying to figure out how to stop Sub with only their doctors' help (or lack of help)?

When Sub was fairly new and I was in my earlier Sub days, I saw countless people at meetings who were being 'detoxed' off opiates using Sub, mainly tapered down to 2 mg (maybe 1 if they were lucky) and then discharged from the hospital with the belief that w/d was over. In fact, w/d had not even started, and once they left, they were totally blown away but S.O.L.

It is 100% fair to be frustrated when you made a decision that was, in part, based on false information. I don't blame Buprenorphine itself, but there is a break here that is obvious and it's perfectly reasonable to acknowledge it and ask for it to be clarified and fixed. It is a human failure, not a failure of the medication itself. I also think the future of Sub treatment, including whether it's available and how people view it in general, may be put in harm's way if people feel like they were duped into believing in something that ended up becoming something else entirely. You can reasonably argue that it's better off that people in the middle of raging opiate addiction got into Sub, even if they cannot stop taking it. However, they still deserve to know the reality behind stopping Suboxone. They should be told up front if their doctor has no clue how to taper people off.

You cannot usher someone into a cave to get out of a storm and then wall it up and yell "Sorry, but you wanted to go in! Dig yourself out somehow." People will naturally resent that. I guess Lillyval said it best when she said, "I think Sub is a great tool, but how could there be such a gross oversight?" That's such a perfect way to word it. Not including a clear way to get off Suboxone AND not informing people starting Sub of this fact is a serious omission and needs to be addressed, like, many yesterdays ago. And I am NOT blaming Sub and my doctor and the world in general for my problems. I'm pointing out that there is a responsibility to patients that has been compromised by seemingly ignoring the reality of tapering off this very powerful med. I don't know why anyone would think this is okay and it's not fair to charge people with blaming Sub when they point this out. Suboxone itself is only a tool and, like any other tool, its potential to help lies in the responsibility and skill of the person using it.

laddertipper

_________________
First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:05 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:47 am
Posts: 1496
I think that I am a fairly cynical person when it comes to certain things, so keep that in mind as you read my opinion on this.

My view on this situation is that there's nothing in it for Reckitt to develop a tapering protocol or to study or do research on Suboxone withdrawals.

In fact, I would guess that from Reckitt's pov, Suboxone Withdrawal is a good thing, because it keeps people taking their medication. When I did a research paper on Suboxone for school, that idea popped up fairly frequently. The fact that Suboxone causes withdrawals is seen as a positive...because it enforces patient compliance.

If you've been around the block with psychopharmaceuticals before, you'll see that this is a pretty common story. Big pharma fought hard against acknowledging the fact that many antidepressants cause horrible withdrawals (oh, sorry, I mean "discontinuation syndrome") and it was only the concerted efforts of the many people who were negatively impacted by those withdrawals that caused anything to change.

So yeah, keep speaking your truth and hopefully everyone together will be loud enough to be heard.

_________________
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:45 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:59 pm
Posts: 1039
I could not agree more with both ladder and diary. People used to go to the pharmacy for short term medications like antibiotics for an infection. Now big pharma wants everyone on drugs that you have to take every day for the rest of your life. Lipitor, Crestor, Prozac, go peepee less pills, hell now there's even Cialis for daily use. So yeah, it's to their benefit if we just stay on it.
I'm kind of pissed at myself because I read up quite a bit on Sub before I went on it. What it was, how it worked, safety, efficacy, the whole nine. Unfortunately, I got a lot of info from RB's website, which IMO heavily implies that you go on it, you do your therapy and work on yourself, then you go off period. Thinking back to how desperate we were at the end of our active addiction, why wouldn't we want to believe that? It's a crying shame.


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:46 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:08 am
Posts: 1503
When I look back on that massive post, I'll admit I was getting a bit melodramatic. What can I say? Pristiq is one helluva drug :lol: As I said, I was quite angry that I'd found myself dependent on two drugs. Anyway, I'm off Pristiq now. It was hard, but I got there in the end. I'll still stand behind the content though.

People generally expect that those who look after their health - ie the doctors, hospitals, the pharmaceutical companies - have their health and their best interests as their number 1 priority. After all, what's more sacred than your health? So when they find out that their doctor is putting their own bank balance first (which has been brought up a bit lately), or that a pharmaceutical company has the interests of their investors before those they medicate, it comes as real shock. Then the cynicism sets in.

Suboxone is a fantastic tool in recovery. I've yet to come across an opiate drug that you can piece your life together on as easily as Suboxone. But from what I've noticed, the majority of people get on Suboxone as a stepping stone to an opiate free life. That is their end goal. So after they find themselves stabilised, it can come as a shock to find that the door to their end goal is all but shut, it can come as a surprise. Thank god there's places like this forum, where people have stumbled in the dark to find a path off Suboxone.

These days, I've conceded that I can't expect much more of a company that's publicly listed and traded, regardless of whether they're meant to look after your health.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:35 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:08 am
Posts: 1503
Wow. After doing a lil searching, it appears there's a term for organisations such as NAABT - it's called "astroturfing". Think crowds such as the National Smoker's Alliance - set up by Phillip Morris Tobacco - set up to attempt to curb anti-smoking legislation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

I highly recommend reading this article. It's a real eye-opener to disingenuous marketing techniques.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:12 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:44 pm
Posts: 65
I'd never heard of Astroturfing in marketing like this until you provided that link, Tearjerker. Interesting. Well, whether or not NAABT is an astroturfer or not, I have been reading their site for days now, getting tons of information. There is so much to read there! And I have received some of their brochures in the mail, the diagrams and visual explanations of recveptors, etc., to be very helpful to my mother to help her understand how Suboxone works.

I think they are in this for good intentions. ;-)

Also, the first podcast I ever listeened to was a few nights ago, and it was all about NAABT; they had one of their people (for lack of a proper word, ugh, my brain!!) explain all about what NAABT does, and the resources they offer. I found it very helpful.

I tihnk I am nearly done reading everything on their site, phew, talk about brain overload! I'd recommend their site to anyone. ;)

Thank you. ~Molly


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group