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 Post subject: More advice please
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:33 am 
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Hi,
This is, by far, the best forum out on the internet. I have looked around and the people who engage on this site have a lot of experience and have been great on trying to help others. I need help. I was on sub. before, induced in may 2012 weened down to about .25mg, stopped for about a week, then had foot surgery at the end of november and was back on 15mg oxycodone 4x a day(60mg a day). Pain was still real bad so doc doubled me to 30mg(120mg a day). Well, I was having bad side effects, like zero sexual desire, irritable, becoming more tolerant to meds. Like before, I told the doctor I wanted off the pain meds. Last time we used suboxone to get off the pain pills, this time she suggested that i just ween myself down. Has anybody here actually weened off the oxycodone successfully? I am very good at sticking to a plan even if i have some withdrawals, as long as they are manageable. The doctor will do almost anything I ask because I have never done anything to burn a bridge with her. Quite opposite, i have been the one to engage in talk and action on getting off medications. I know my body is physically dependent, there would have to be , I guess, a slow taper process, like a suboxone taper. I think the problem is the mental part with a lot of people. I want to try to do this, i can always go to suboxone if i cant do this oxy taper. Can you please give me some ideas and experiences? I know there has to be somebody who has done this successfully or with all the experience out there, can help. Thanks, your input is really appreciated


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:03 pm 
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Lot's of non-addicts, who are prescribed pain meds for legitimate reasons, are able to wean down and stop. If you're ale to follow a taper plan, it should be considerably easy, in theory. It would be the same type of plan you'd follow to get off of suboxone. If I were on 30mgs of oxycodone, I would definitely try to wean and quit on my own before resorting to suboxone. Can you and your doctor lay out a simple step down plan for the next week or two? Dropping a bit of oxy each day shouldn't be that bad if you can actually follow it.

Is your doctor close? Maybe she or someone else can hold your meds and step you down, if you're worried about not sticking to the taper..? That reminds me.. Even though I did not think of my methadone treatment as very successful, I always appreciated not being in control of my own dosing. Does that make sense? It's like a weight being lifted when you have no control over how much you can do in a day. Also, the clinic I went to did blind step downs. If you wanted to taper and quit, they would offer to lower your dose every so often and not tell you.. that we couldn't obsess on the days there was a drop. Anyway, sorry for the tangent.

If your desire is to stop taking your pain meds, you have a good relationship with your doctor, and you feel strong enough to follow a plan and stick to it, I don't see why you can't do it. At the very least try.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:28 pm 
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Thanks TD, Doc suggested that i go from taking 120mg a day to 60mg a day. Seems extreme to me. She suggested this only because I told her that for 5 days before I saw her I was able to do this, yet I was not sleeping well and was in a kind of crappy mood all the time. She gave me klonodine to help at night. This does not seem like a plan to me, I feel it just being thrown out there to me. Thats why I was asking for steps people have taken to get off the meds(tapering). without any other feedback, I think what I will try to do is take 15mg every 6 hours and stabalize at that dose. I am not sure how long that will take, my body is used to 120mg a day. If I have WD's that are getting bad I can take 10mg percocet to get stable. I still have about 70 of the 10/325 percs from awhile ago that I can use. I am totally ok with getting off the meds, yet i need to work, cant take time off right now, so I just wanted to go slow. Was wondering if tapering off the oxy can work.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:37 pm 
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^ I read your post wrong and thought you were only on 30mg of oxy. Sorry.. Yes, that "taper" plan seems extreme to me as well. If she's open to helping you, might as well be a realistic plan.

How much are you stabilized on now? What would you normally take today, to get through without being high, but comfortable?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:26 pm 
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You said last time you used Suboxone to get off pain meds. Did you do a short term taper with Suboxone or did you stay on Suboxone for a while, then taper it?

If you didn't do a short term taper with Suboxone, you could try it this time. We've had people on this board who would switch from pain meds to Suboxone. They'd take 8mg first day, 6mg next day, 4mg next day, etc.

After 7 or 8 days, they're off the pain pills and Suboxone. We usually don't recommend this method because of the high relapse rates associated with it, but it sounds like it may work for you???

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Romeo,
Thanks for responding, both you and tinydancer have given a lot of good advice from your experiences.. Last year I went on sub in May and in about 6 months tapered down to .25 mg, then had another surgery and got back on pain meds. I think I will have the pain issues under control without the pain meds( at least to a point that I am comfortable with). I wanted to try to taper the oxy because I got off hydocodone before by tapering, just wondering if its that much different than oxycodone. I can get by right now around 75-90 mg a day, and I dont mind going very slow to do this. I really dont get high on it, if anything, if i take too much I get real tired and do not feel good at all. NO good reason to take more. I just want off, but want to do it with the oxycodone, I figured I could at least try to do a taper with the oxycodone, I could always go to suboxone if I cant make this work. Maybe decrease 5% a week for 20 weeks or 10% a week for 10 weeks. I have been on 120mg a day for the last 3 months, before that it was 60mg for about 4 months. Just want off, but want to be successful.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:54 pm 
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I think you could reduce by 5% or 10% in the beginning without much trouble. If you choose 10%, I'd stay longer at that dose. Going slow and spending a week or to and each drop will probably make it easier. If it were me, I'd knock 10mgs off every week or two (depending on how long you want to taper for,) and then change it to 5mgs when I got to a lower dosage, like 60mgs.. If you can stick to a plan like that, you shouldn't feel it too much.

Good luck


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:13 pm 
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Oxycodone tapering I'm well-versed in. I'm at a "stuck" point now, which is why I'm going on Suboxone. I wish I didn't have to, but I need to because I have pain that needs to be addressed as well as wanting off these meds. I have to say that taper schedule is EXTREME and really inhumane. You're not an animal, and I'm sick and tired of pain patients being treated like it. We don't even treat animals like this! In any case, the taper from that should be MUCH slower. When I say slow, I mean about (sometimes a little more a little less) 25% decrease at a time in the beginning, then smaller percentages as the dosage gradually decreases. Doing it right takes time and patience. If all you're dealing with is the WDs and no more pain, I would definitely try to not go the Suboxone route unless you just can't do the taper.


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 Post subject: good advice
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:00 pm 
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SnapShawt, Thanks for your advice. You sound a lot like me, as far as your situation. I have real pain issues. As I started tapering I started to notice more pain. I am very concerned about this, if I keep taking pain meds I know my tolerance will continue to go up and where will I be in a year or two? I am afraid that I will be taking stronger stuff and will end up a mess. I am going to talk to the doc on 07/02, voice my concerns and see what she says. Maybe there are meds that will help me with my pain that are not like the opiates? I am trying to be pro-active about all of this, yet its tricky when you have real pain issues you are dealing with. Have you had success with any other meds that are not opiates?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:01 pm 
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I have discovered so many different ways to address pain over the years I swear I should write a book! But many are specific to the pain I have and it really depends on how much, of what sort, etc. Non-medically I have found aquatic therapy, mild yoga, meditation, and vitamins and supplements to be very helpful and was how I tapered even more. Medically, I don't really have anything for you beyond the standard "take Tylenol and ride it out." I know pain just sucks, especially bad chronic pain that becomes after a time such a part of you that it etches itself into your personality in different ways. I have tried Lyrica, which I will say did and would have helped very much had it not been for two things it did to me - severe edema lower legs (I mean severe) and it also did a number on my kidneys. Neurontin helped a little, but it has a side effect for many of extreme dizziness and sleepiness. That goes away for some (as it did with the pain medicine for me), but it wouldn't for me. I was just in a constant state of "not with it" on that.

Antidepressants are often used for pain as well, and I tried two. The first was Paxil. That medicine introduced me to what is known as a "panic attack." You know, before then, I was guilty of thinking people who had those were really exaggerating things. Well, they're not. I gained so much empathy for those that are plagued with them constantly after that experience. It's truly a hell all its own. So we switched to Zoloft, and I will say that DID help a bit. However, it had for me a nasty side effect that at least at the time was a big deal (and also no reason for not taking if it's really necessary). For me and many others who took it - not everyone - sexual function and desire as well were completely eliminated. I mean GONE! Thank goodness the desire went with it because I couldn't have even if I wanted to. I had to literally plan when certain things would happen and stop taking it three days before to regain function and desire. After restarting it, there would be a one week "window" in which both remained before going out again. Those were really, um, busy weeks :) In the end, the benefit it provided for the pain didn't allow any taper really - it actually affected how I "thought" about the pain rather than the pain itself, if that makes any sense. It was a costs-benefits analysis, and the costs outweighed so I stopped that.

One thing was that during most of that time the neurologist was treating the pain, which is just a bad idea I know now. It should be addressed by a pain management physician who knows how to work with all those meds, how to combine them and how to get you to what will work the best. But when I did finally get to a pain management doctor, I was already on really high Oxycodone doses and he just kept me at that. He was one of those that basically just had the script written when you walked in, checked your vitals, and sent you on your way.


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 Post subject: Thanks for sharing
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:38 am 
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S.S., Thanks for your truly honest post. This web-site has really opened my eyes to so much. People like yourself who share their experiences in an open, honest, way will help me and others while we all seek a "solution" unique to each individuals experience. My doctor has flat out told me that I am not an addict, that I do not show the behavior that is attached to being an addict. While I find that those words are comforting to here, I know that, I have started the path that leads to full addiction. I have a physical dependence to the pills and now I am trying to ween off without going on suboxone. This web-site has opened my eyes about the differences between physical and mental addiction. I feel that some doctors have done the patients a disservice when it comes to narcotic pain meds. There are many people, like myself, that was so ignorant to what happens to you physically and mentally when taking opiates for pain management long term. My doctor told me that because I have gotten off them before that she saw no problem in me doing that again. Well, I am struggling, first,because we started the taper with a 50% reduction(way too fast), second, my plan for pain control has not worked as well as I thought it would.
After reading your post, I think that maybe its best not to start putting a lot of other pills in my body. I am sensitive to medication, I tend to have the side-effects more often than not. I am going to ask the doctor about some of the other suggestions I have read here or that were suggested to me. I am really at a strange part to all of this, I will hope and pray that it all works out. Thanks everybody for sharing your experiences, I will keep posting


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 Post subject: What a difference!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Man oh man what a difference when I am busy and working. We allready discussed this but I just had three days off work and I struggled almost everyday. I went to work today and I only have had 45 mgs and am very sore but I am ok. Ihave been going at least 12 hours everynight without anything(took 15mg at 600pm and I wont dose until I get up tmrw around 600 or 700 am) My point is the busier you keep your mind and body, it really works!!! I can see why that many people that are getting clean discuss the idea of forcing exercise daily to help with withdrawal. I know that I am still using the oxycodone but again I was at 120mg a day and now trying to stabilize at 60mg a day(in just a couple of weeks). My pain is pretty significant and thats where I really am going to have to work on somehow as I keep reducing down the road. I have allready made the decision to go real slow on my taper. If I need to I will even go up to 90mg a day with docs approval and do a 10-20% reduction each month. I would like to be totally clean around the first of the year( Its a goal anyway). Thought I would just chime in, hopefully Romeo, Tinydancer, SnapShawt, or anybody else keeps posting, I appreciate the feedback. Ciao


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:25 pm 
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JustDoIt, it sounds like you're on the right track.

If you are going to try an Oxycodone taper and avoid the Suboxone (which I do agree is best if you can do it), then I would suggest BABY steps with a willing doctor. At first you may get away with bigger percentage cuts, but the lower you go so also should the percentage, otherwise you're defeating the purpose and actually cutting larger and larger doses (doesn't make sense I know, but do the math and you'll see). A proper taper is done very, VERY slowly. I was doing that until my old PM doc poofed and I was forced to the new one and the Suboxone (don't take this as regret, just what I had to do - I can't blame the new PM doc).

It just makes sense that tapering off is always better if you can, and I think I would've completed that had it not been for my situation. That way you're just done with it. BUT, if you find the taper just hits a road block or something else, then Suboxone would be a good alternative to at least (I hope, I'm not at the point yet) give you a softer landing. I know, being 36 hours post induction later this evening, that had I just been forced into WDs without this you wouldn't be reading this right now. The pain I could have dealt with by not moving mostly, but the WDs would have me in a ball on the floor screaming for my Mom. She passed last month, and if she showed up then I'd KNOW serious hallucinations were coming on!

You have to follow the best course you know, and it sounds anyway like you have an understanding doctor (and count your lucky stars on that if true). So many are scared (rightfully, not their fault) into forcing patients into a state of misery it's not funny. This country needs to get its head out of its proverbial butt and stop regulating these doctors into oblivion. Yes, shut down the obvious pill mills. But leave honest physicians otherwise alone and stay the hell out of that which is between them and their patients. And you all know the difference between that and a pill mill, it's just obvious. A PM doctor with a line of patients out the door and down the block filtering in and out like water with scripts is just bad news, clearly. A PM doc with a regular patient load who happens to have many (which he will, he's a PAIN management doctor) on strong opiates is just a doctor doing his job. Will some still fool him? Sure, he's human and it will happen. But those innocent folks who need help shouldn't pay the price for it, and right now they are.

Okay, I'm going off topic and ranting now, sorry.


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 Post subject: Thanks
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:26 am 
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Snap, Thanks for sharing. I am now stable at 60mg a day, a 50% drop from my 120mg. I see the doc tmrw morning and I am going to let her know that I am going to stay another month at 60mg, then I am going to drop 10 mg a month until I get to 20mg, then drop 5mg a month until I get to 5mg. I then will start doing 2.5mgs a day, then start skipping days after that until i am off. I need to have a plan in place on how I am going to deal with my pain issues. I am hoping there is a medication that will help with my severe arthritis in my foot. I work on my feet all day and I am too young to retire. I will be working another 20 years full-time. So, I am going to need a plan. Hopefully there are some non-narcotic pain meds that will help, we will see. By the way, it has been kind of hard reducing 50% right off the bat, pretty rough, so that is why I am going another month at that level(60mg). I will probably try to start a gradual taper to 50 mg by the end of this month(July). Thanks, I will keep posting, love the feedback. Ciao


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