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 Post subject: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:08 pm 
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Hello... i had 6 years of oxy habit.. roughly 500 to 600 mgs a day... anyway been on 8mg subs now over 4 months... my questions are there.... why cant i ever sleep normal? And why do my legs hurt every damn day i wake up? Doctor keeps telling me give it 6 months because my habit was so big... i just want to feel normal again... really frustrated but i am committed to never touching pills again... gracias


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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Welcome Joe,

Not being a physician, I have no comment on your complaints and whether or not it's related to Suboxone or not.

Hopefully one of our resident doctors can find the time to post back to you. If one does, consider yourself very fortunate as they are very busy professionals.

Other than that, we're glad to have you on the forum!

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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:52 pm 
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Graciss for response... just trying to figure this out..


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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:36 pm 
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Hey Joe,

I'm guessing that sleep problems are not that uncommon when switching to subs. Did you sleep well
when you were taking your oxy every day? I'm guessing not. I was on my DOC for 12 years, and for most
of that time I doubt I got more than 4 hours per night on average. It can take awhile to get stable
on subs. Have you talked to your doctor about upping the dose?

I'm not a doctor either, I hasten to add. On the pain in your legs, do you have RSL at night still? If you're still
thrashing around that could account for the pain.

If it were me, I'd discuss my daily dose with my doctor. How are you doing other than that? It's a huge plus
that your attitude sounds good despite the problems. Are you craving free? If so, that's a huge step forward.

Really glad to have you on the forum!

Best wishes,

Godfrey...


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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:48 am 
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Hi Joe,

I would ask your doctor if you could try 10mg or 12 mg and see if that makes a difference. You mention that you were on quite a high dose and it could be that 8mg just isn't enough for your tolerance. Also, some folks metabolize buprenorphine faster than others. Perhaps your doctor could meet you half way and bump your dose up a couple of mgs.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:31 pm 
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I also think u could need a slightly larger dose. My oxycodone habit was 150mg and my starting suboxone dose was 16mg. It covered everything... withdrawal and cravings. I'll also add that I didn't sleep good at all while I was in active addiction (like Godfrey said) but once I started suboxone treatment, I started sleeping much better. Now that could have been peace of mind and not worried about withdrawal 24/7.

Not sure why ur still not sleeping after 4 months though, but if it were me I'd ask my doctor if going up to 12mg would be an option to try. The leg problems could also be something totally unrelated to buprenorphine or ur past using. It's hard to say honestly.

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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:44 pm 
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Hello all and sorry for delayed response.. thank you for the replies and suggestions.. i started at 24mg then 16mg and i dropped to 8mg because it seems many people say less is best.. when i 1st started it did seem to give me energy and motivation.. now i just feel like bla and dont want to do anything.. i know i am battling depression considering my father uncle cousin grandma and 2 good friends died last year.. i tried lexapro which didnt help and now take wellbutrin which seems to do nothing.. doctor gave me trazadone to sleep but i have not taken.. i worry i will be groggy all day... as far as legs i had rls and this is not but more like weak legs and if i stand too long i feel lot of pain. I think back 6 years ago when oxy free and miss how i woke at 430 and worked until dark every day and was happy.. i need to get that back. I know i have regret for allowing this to happen but now i am focused on nornalcy... and yes when on oxy i slept fine but obviously looked tired and blank... today i decided to try roberts ween down plan... i really want to come off subs.. i wont go back to oxy. Its not an option.. also now my doctor told me if i dont go to therapist and pyscho doc he is kicking me out of group... real nice offer because now i will have no rx for subs... anyway thank you for suggestions and replies.. i need to figure this out because i am self employed and monday my works starts again... i need to be able sleep from 10 o 11 to 6 o 7 now... gracias


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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:13 pm 
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i also had terrible joint pains especially in the mornings. i also had this years ago when i quit cold turkey. they diminished after about 6 months! i took lots of advil (1600mg at a time) and alternated them with tylenol.

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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:58 pm 
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I forgot to add my doctor is kicking me out of group.. he claims since i have underlying depressiom either i go to therapist also or im out.. real nice after 4 months to give me ultimatum... screw him i want off suboxone and will do and be happy eventually....


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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:05 pm 
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Joeballzzz wrote:
I forgot to add my doctor is kicking me out of group.. he claims since i have underlying depressiom either i go to therapist also or im out.. real nice after 4 months to give me ultimatum... screw him i want off suboxone and will do and be happy eventually....

the therapy for me has been one of the biggest assets. my anxiety causes my using and relapses. i quit cold turkey the first time and was clean 5 years, but with no support emotionally. i ended up relapsing for 3 years! if i had the tools i do know to treat my anxiety and the knowledge i gained about what triggers me i may not have gone back to using.
it also took 4 different doctors telling me i needed to be medicated for anxiety and a trip to the ER in full blown panic mode to finally agree to try medication. and it has made all the difference.
i do understand just wanting to be done with the subs, but i can attest to the fact that therapy can be beneficial with or without them.
good luck!!

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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Joe, we're with you all the way on your journey to be off Suboxone. It is not something we recommend unless the person knows for sure that they'll be able to stay clean. You do sound like you've reached that moment.

Please read as many threads as possible in the Stopping Suboxone section. There are many success stories there along side some bad ones where they didn't taper low enough and went through some withdrawal symptoms. Just remember. It won't be as bad as Oxy's no matter what your brain tells you. We addicts have a terrible time focusing on "How We Feel". Not good. Distraction is always best when you're giving up a substance that the body is accustomed to. Meaning, most of it is in our heads and it really never gets that bad. Keep that in mind.

Your main problem will be sleep. Yes, talk to your doctor to see what the best plan of attack will be concerning that. Sleeping is the #1 complaint of getting off opiates or any drug that slows down the central nervous system. But it will get better with time.

We'll cheer you on as much as possible!

rule

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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:44 am 
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SisterMorphine wrote:
Joeballzzz wrote:
I forgot to add my doctor is kicking me out of group.. he claims since i have underlying depressiom either i go to therapist also or im out.. real nice after 4 months to give me ultimatum... screw him i want off suboxone and will do and be happy eventually....

the therapy for me has been one of the biggest assets. my anxiety causes my using and relapses. i quit cold turkey the first time and was clean 5 years, but with no support emotionally. i ended up relapsing for 3 years! if i had the tools i do know to treat my anxiety and the knowledge i gained about what triggers me i may not have gone back to using.
it also took 4 different doctors telling me i needed to be medicated for anxiety and a trip to the ER in full blown panic mode to finally agree to try medication. and it has made all the difference.
i do understand just wanting to be done with the subs, but i can attest to the fact that therapy can be beneficial with or without them.
good luck!!


I don't agree at all with your doctor's method's, Joe, but Sister M. is speaking truth. Why is it that you don't want to see a therapist? You've only been on sub for 4 months, why is it that you want off now again?

I understand feeling nostalgic for a time before you got onto oxy and had what you consider an ideal life. I also understand that you don't believe that you will relapse. Unfortunately, trying to recreate your past circumstances without the insight of therapy, without at least a year on suboxone, and without a recovery program to fall back on, your odds are pretty bad. The scientific evidence is showing that those who attempt abstinence after being on suboxone less than a year will relapse as if they haven't been on the medication. Remember, currently the suboxone is taking away your cravings to use your drug of choice. It will be much harder to stay away from oxy once the buprenorphine is no longer in your system.

Rule is correct that we will be supportive during a taper if that's what you decide to do. I can't say that I recommend that course of action, however.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:13 pm 
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I appreciate all the insight.. i am not against therapy its just i own a swimming pool company that does really well... i dont have insurance because i have apto in colombia and all my medical is done there.. right now i am spending about 1500 a month on doctor and subs so add therapy once a week and it another 600.. i do have good support amongst friends here... to be honest my friend is pharmacist in colombia and is looking for subs there for me.. if i can get there i will buy and quit doctor and replace with therapy once a week.. its funny this lady would sell me 1k oxy 40s a month in colombia but tells me she reluctant to get me subs because what she has read... pills are not a problem there so she doesnt understand the meds... i think if i could find the right anti depressant things would be better.. i have prescribed klono and when i take i sleep well but never wake up.. if i can fix the leg thing this would be so much easier.. i am little nervous with work because this is 1st time in 6 years working not on pills.. i can easily get oxy but like i said is not an option.. i am 100 percent certain i wont go back.. at the end never made me high no more energy felt dirty and hit a wall with oxy.. had to take just to get out of bed.. i know the death of my father has made this detox worse.. i am very angry he was taking so quickly.. he did not deserve.. anyway i am going to try Advil.. i also have script for gabapentin but it seems to make me foggy and sleep longer in morning.. plus i dont need something else to withdraw from.. if you all dont mind answering i am curious... how many months after quitting and taking subs did you feel 90 percent yourself? The wife is very proud of me but she claims she notices things with me on subs that are different... i know some people are on subs for life but i dont want to be on more then 6 months if possible... like i said i hate the fact i put myself in this position but past is past and time to move forward.. again thanks for responses... nice to know we are all in this together... black white alien non alien american non american... imagine if world could work like this in everyday life... would make it easy... again thank you for your time and keep up the sobriety all


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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:16 pm 
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are there NA meetings in Columbia? or SOS meetings? any kind of meeting would help if you don't want to pay that much. $600 seems like a LOT for a therapist! you most likely wouldn't need to go every week. what about SMARTrecovery.org either online or if they meet near you.

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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:30 am 
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Joe, You had a large habit and have not been on suboxone for that long. It is recommended that you be stable on suboxone at least a year before tapering off. I noticed that you seem to want to do things your own way. Your doctor recommending therapy for your depression is right on. You still have the connections to get you doc., you are 100% sure that you can stay sober without suboxone. Everyone that goes off is sure that they will never use, but, the majority do use. You have a lot to lose. I know therapy and medication is expensive but, have you considered staying on suboxone while you get your depression and sleep issues squared away? You would give yourself a fighting chance to make it and might be cheaper in the long term. Best of luck to you whatever you do. Sorry to be a downer but we fight an enemy that is within our own minds and difficult for us to see at times. Jean


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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:49 am 
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Joe, I'm so sorry to hear that your dad died, and so quickly too. Why don't you tell us about it? Sometimes it helps to share the story.

In September it will be 15 years since my mom died in the night from a massive pulmonary embolism. I was 31, but nowhere near ready to lose my mom. It was so hard in the beginning when I was used to talking to her multiple times a week. I would pick up the phone to call her before I would realize what I was doing. It was extremely difficult to bear. It seemed like everyone else still had their mom and was complaining about her! That really bothered me for a while.

Tell us what happened, Joe. We are here for you.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:41 pm 
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I am only in colombia 5 months fulltime and Connecticut 7 months for work.. colombia is naive with pill issues because is not abused there much.. is weird this morning i took 4mg amd feel better.. still is leg pain but emotionally feel little more motivated.. i will try 4 in morning and 4 at night it if that works i will stay on.. i am very strong willed... i know many people say they wont touch again but i do not want to disappoint my dead father...

As far as my fathers death goes this is what happened... i worked with my father 25 years... he was my best friend my hero and only person i trusted.. was strongest man i knew... we were poor and he hustled enough money to start a business that was very successful.. anyway one day he felt dizzy so went to doctor.. they did tests and he had small cell lung cancer.. they said maybe 2 to 5 year he had left.. my dad was 69.. so they sent him home and 2 days later he fell and broke his arm... now the hospital fix but says he has bone cancer... so more tests done and low and behold he has liver cancer and 4 brain tumors... chemo and radiation did not do a thing.. long story short my father died within 2 months... i slept with him every night... cancer took a 6'4 230 lb man down to 90lbs... i watched his last breath.. was hardest thing ever in my life.. and to make matters worse my mother who is very wealthy robbed our business blind.. she took all the money trucks tools etc and wrote letters saying we were closed... i went broke restarting new business... i had great relationship with my mother.. one day i am at their house helping and the next day locks were changed to keep me away from money and the office... i wont ever forgive her or speak with her again... fuck her... anyway after my uncle died from cancer. Then cousin fell went into coma and died.. then my grams fell broke hip and died in surgery.. on top of that one of my best friends who was lawyer od on heroin halloween night... so was worst year of life and obvio my oxy use was all time high to block it all out.. thats my story.. and now here i am clean today 130 days trying to get my life back together.. i know it is short time with subs but i feel longer i use ther harder will be to come off... i will try and if does not work i have the subs has backup.. so we will see in 30 days how i feel when i dont take the subs... i am tired of meds controlling my life.. wish me luck probably will need a miracle.. thanks for your time.. its nice to know random people actually care.. we are all in this together... gracias amigos.. feliz dia


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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:24 pm 
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I do care and you're right, we are in this together.

Your story is heartbreaking. So much loss. Plus you lost your Dad to cancer and your mom to greed. (Was another sibling manipulating her or did she do this on her own?)

Who is your family now? Sometimes our family members are the people we choose to have in our lives as opposed to those we are related to.

I love my father, but he went off the deep end after Mom died. He had 3 fiancès in 3 years. He started dating online within a month of her death. At one point he was engaged to a Ukrainian woman he met on a "Meet your Russian Bride" type site. She was penniless and couldn't speak English, but she had big boobs and agreed to never get fat! (My mom was morbidly obese.)

My mom's death and my father's behavior afterward was what I was trying to numb with addiction. I thought I deserved to have a pill and then feel better.

I have to say that it would be a really great idea for you to find a grief counselor, whether it's a pastor/priest or a therapist. Your mom's behavior is so egregious that you can't help but be incredibly hurt and angry. You deserve to have a person you can let that out to.

I do not see buprenorphine as a pill that controls my life. This is how I see it. I have a medication that puts the obsessive behavior of my addiction into remission. During this reprieve I am normalizing my life. I am earning a Masters in Addiction Studies. I have been through addiction therapy and I attend SMART Recovery meetings. I have learned about what triggers me to use. I have good relationships with my family members and friends. I also wanted to lower my daily dose of buprenorphine, so over several months time I reduced my dose from 16mg to 3mg. I am quite content on this dose. If I ever want to fully taper off, I have the patience and the ability to do that. I will taper slowly so that I don't feel withdrawal symptoms. I will do it on my own terms.

I'm not saying that my way is perfect and it hasn't always been rainbows and unicorns, but it is very doable. I feel very stable and content.

Where in CT? My sister lives in West Hartford.

You are welcome to message me any time if you are feeling overwhelmed or need to talk about your Dad. After Mom died, I just loved to talk about her, but I was afraid to bother people. If you need an outlet I am always around.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:41 pm 
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[quote="Joeballzzz"]is weird this morning i took 4mg amd feel better.. still is leg pain but emotionally feel little more motivated.. [/quote
aw you write just like i write. which is how i talk. as a write people often comment on that...that i write just like i talk.
columbia university? i thought you were living in columbia the country?

sorry about all the bad things that happened to you. that why i started using again too.
i know i've told this tons of times here, but i was in 2 motorcycle accidents, my grandma died, lost 3 beloved pets, family member that i raised went on trial for and was convicted of murder, grandma died, i blew through an inheritance all within 2 years. sometimes its just too much to take. but know i know loss and guilt can trigger a relapse for me.

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 Post subject: Re: 4 months on subs
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:30 pm 
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Sister, I was thinking Columbia SC. ha OR the country. Maybe Joe will tell us...
Joe, Agree w the prior posters on ALL you've been thru. SO very very sorry.
So glad you found this site. Lots of hardship that brought us -- to here. Best always, P

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