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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:19 am 
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Kicked Sub three months ago, after a few years of use. Success came through a really slow taper..
Now 3 months later and I am contemplating getting on an SNRI (Serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor).
I have been exercising 5-6 days a week but have a general lack of focus(cant concentrate like I used too, If I read something my recall is horrible), wake up in the middle of the night and am wide awake, and a bit of general apathy.

Just wondering if this is the price I have to pay for long term sub use? Anyone had experience with situational depression or anti depressants after kicking?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:18 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Hello Feeling alive, and CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU, for kicking sub!!!! That is one heck of an accomplishment! I am sorry
to hear that you are struggling with this crappy depression though, as a result of it. IF it is a result of it I should say. I
have read a lot of stories about people still having mild to moderate depression months after stopping suboxone. Though
I've also heard of a few who have severe depression too. Just like those people, there are the ones that don't have any.

There is a good chance that this is PAWS related depression. The length of PAWS depends on how long you were on subs
and your DOC before starting subs. If you are feeling so depressed that you are starting to consider an SSRI, only you
know if that is necessary. Well, you and your doctor of course.

One other thing that I wanted to point out, is the time of year. ALOT of people tend to get mild to moderate depression
this time of year. It's called Seasonal Affective disorder. It has to do with the change in seasons. It's starting to get
colder outside. We aren't spending as much time doing outdoor activities, or absorving sunshine. I personally just
started an SSRI 2 days ago. It happens every single year to me, without fail.

I would talk to your doctor about it. Find out if it's PAWS, or another form of depression. Either way they can give you
something to help. It's funny, because come March~I'll be off of it again. Which is fine by me. And this could also be the
case for you as well. Talking to your doctor can help you make the distinction.

I really am sorry that you are feeling this way. Anyone who has ever experienced depression, knows that it isn't fun.
Please keep us informed as to how you are doing, and let us know what you find out. Keep your head up, because you
are doing GREAT!!!!! God Bless and Take Care~[/font]

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:15 am 
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Welcome, Feelingalive!!!!!

As Kelly said, You really need to give yourself a big pat on the back, or a big hug or BOTH for getting THIS FAR!!!!

thats HUGE!!!!! seriously, great job!!!!!!!!!!

I really am sorry your feeling depressed,,,,,,,,thats no way to be, long-term anyways :wink:

There's quite a few people that have experienced what your talking about, and if I remember rite, sometimes an SSRI is the way to go, I mean WHO wants to be depressed, right???

Im sure your doctor will have some good ideas for you. There are many people that I go to support group with that cymbalta works really well for them. when the therapist was talking he said its one of the 'most perscribed' for recovering addicts for some reason.
On the OTHER hand, every single ONE OF US, is DIFFERENT!!!!!
so , you never know!! but,
I do wish you the very BEST of luck finding the right medication, if thats the route you go. I know that can be a journey all it's own!!!

I dont really know of anything else your not already trying......... I do KNOW that too much depression CAN be a dangerous thing, and thats why theres NOTHING wrong with getting help for it!!!!

so,,, again
great job on getting this far!!!

and let us know how things work out 8)

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That's TRUE STRENGTH
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:28 am 
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Hey feelingalive,

I experienced the same thing you did when I got off of Suboxone. I waited over a year before I went to the doctor to get some help. I think the first thing he put me on was Celexa. That shit made my symptoms 10 times worse, but apparently this is how it is finding a good anti-depressant, it's trial and error. The next thing he tried me on was Wellbutrin. Wellbutrin worked great for me, and it works a lot faster than other AD meds. It's my understanding that most AD meds take weeks and weeks before you really feel them, for me, Wellbutrin seemed to start working within a day or two.

Because I was so afraid of becoming dependent on another medication, I only used Wellbutrin for a few weeks, to maybe a couple of months at a time. I got on and off of it 3 or 4 times. It seemed like each time I used it, it allowed me to better deal with my mild depression when I got off of it? That's just my experience.

Also, I see you're working out, great job, man!! Do you take Creatine? I had no idea, but Creatine has antidepressant properties. I just read another article about it a few days ago. Creatine is NOT recommended if you're bi-polar, though. Anyway, if you're working out, Creatine is a great supplement that gives you more strength and helps in muscle recovery, you may want to look into it.

Lastly, I also believe the depression that comes with getting off of opiates (or any drug) has a lot to do with learning how to live without drugs, this is where recovery comes in. Getting back into shape mentally, spiritually and physically, in my opinion, is critical to long term success.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:51 pm 
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Thanks for the kind words.. I sincerely appreciate it..
I live down in sunny florida, so no seasons down here..got my prescription for Pristiq (SNRI) going to give it a shot..
Its not that I cant get out of bed in the morning, I'm up everyday at 4:00am to hit the gym.. I just feel as though I dont have my emotions in check. Also at work I have become the king of procrastination, when I used to be high performance all the time(pre and during sub and opiates). I can honestly find a reason to do nothing for hours each day..

Romeo thanks for sharing your experience.. my plan (discussed with my dr) is to try the SNRI for 3-6 months.. you're right about the working out as well as about the mental fitness.. makes a big difference..
Sucks to think that sub alters our brain chemistry for 3-12 months after stopping....


Thanks again.. appreciate the support and personal experience..

Cheers.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:20 pm 
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FA, I'm in a similar boat. I'm a little behind you at approx 2.5 months clean from Sub. The lingering symptoms I'm experiencing are mild depression and lack of motivation. The depression is pretty tolerable because it's not bad every single day, but some days are worse than others. The lack of motivation sucks because I literally don't want to do even the smallest task. I usually force myself to get the bare minimum done, but it's a miracle if I actually do more than that.

I chalk all of this up to PAWS and figure I just have to wait it out. I started taking a couple of Serotonin vitamins a couple of weeks ago (5-HTP and St. John's Wort) since I figure they can't hurt to try. I don't feel any major improvements from them so far, but they give a mental boost just knowing that I'm doing what I can do fight back and put in my time.

I may try an RX anti-depressant if I don't feel like I'm making improvements within a couple more months. Please keep us updated on your progress and opinions of Pristiq.

Good luck and hang in there. You're very likely on the final leg of your journey and pretty darn close to being home free.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:11 pm 
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FeelingAlive wrote:
Kicked Sub three months ago, after a few years of use. Success came through a really slow taper..
Now 3 months later and I am contemplating getting on an SNRI (Serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor).
I have been exercising 5-6 days a week but have a general lack of focus(cant concentrate like I used too, If I read something my recall is horrible), wake up in the middle of the night and am wide awake, and a bit of general apathy.

Just wondering if this is the price I have to pay for long term sub use? Anyone had experience with situational depression or anti depressants after kicking?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers


It seems that tapering does not have any bearing on the post-sub depression. This is one of the things am afraid of too, I've even read of people suffering depression for 2 years after quitting suboxone. I think this may be because of the stacked half lifes of suboxone, its sticky after all right?

I also read anti-depressant do not make any difference to sub related depression or opiate related, perhaps to short half lifed opiates, I do not know.

I was really hoping at least exercise will help people but even that does not seem to be working. I personally do not believe depression and altering of brain chemistry post sub is related to past drugs we did, I do believe its actually the sub, I know we may not want to accept that but we may need to open our eyes now and notice that people complain more about sub side effects and depression then they did with their drug prior to getting on the sub train. I never read anybody who said they suffered depression 3 months after stopping other drugs apart from suboxone and methadone. This indeed is a cause of concern.

Now getting on a antidepressant may make an individual rely on that and can end up being a long term issue or life. Did the original poster have any depression before sub? did they always have depression prior to drugs? but from what I have read no antidepressants make any impact when it comes to coming off sub.

Am currently on 1mg of sub, I have been taking it for 7 years, I never took any dose higher then 8 and for most part of
2 1/2 years I have been on low doses of subutex. I do everything possible such as exercise, eating healthy food and so on, but nothing stops me fro, having a fear of depression as I keep reading more and more people of suffering this symptom for years if not several months.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:14 pm 
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Hey Music,

Welcome to the forum!!

When I quit Suboxone, my worst fear was the crushing depression that came along with regular pain med withdrawl. I had detoxed off Hydro's, then Oxy before and each time, the depression that accompanied the wd was horrendous. It was absolutely crushing. So, like I said, I was scared out of my mind about the depression I was going to have to deal with once I quit Suboxone.

Thankfully, the depression I experienced getting off of Suboxone was nowhere near the depression I had experienced while detoxing from regualr pain meds. Truthfully, the depression coming off of Suboxone was very mild. It was present, yes....but very mild.

It sounds like you're in pretty good shape. You're exercising and eating healthy and I think that's great. I personally know two people who tapered down to .5mg of Suboxone, quit and experienced no PAWS and no depression at all.....they were both in excellent physical condition before they jumped. Hopefully, if you're in pretty good shape, you'll have the same experience.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:52 pm 
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Music wrote:
Now getting on a antidepressant may make an individual rely on that and can end up being a long term issue or life. Did the original poster have any depression before sub? did they always have depression prior to drugs? but from what I have read no antidepressants make any impact when it comes to coming off sub.


HI Music :D
First I want to say....... GOOD for you, staying on that low of a dose.....that can be a battle all it's own :wink:

And, I wanted to point out, Im not sure whats so wrong with being ON an antideppresant for life????
The "percentage" of people*** who ABUSE anitdepressants, is very low, compared to pain pills....

there is a stigma that sorrounds taking antideppresants, that you may have a mental illness, or you cant "deal with life" but you know, we are ALL Different,,,,,,,,
and honestly, if you're a drug addict, for lets say even five years,
you quit, go on suboxone, and taper off............ And the ONLY thing you are on is an antidepressant, I'd call that pretty DAMN LUCKY :D
considering how many people NEVER make it OUT of active addiction alive,
if your depressed and need a little help in that area, GET IT.
depression is much more dangerous, UNTREATED than treated, even if it IS with medication...........

Now, Im not saying everyone that's depressed NEEDS an antidepressant, I just think it's sad people that are unable to enjoy life, extended periods of time, are afraid to ask for help, becuz of the 'stigma'
It's more than worth the risk of side effects, and whatever else, to take one, if it's needed. Thats a much better answer than lets say, , , suicide................just something to think about.

*** http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/10 ... epressants

you probably already know there's lots of tapering stories in the stopping suboxone section, and the bupe in the rear view section.................
Please dont hesitate to post any questions you might have

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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