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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:51 pm 
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So I've been clean off Suboxone for 3 months total, was on it for a total of 2 years. But after getting frustrated at the lack of progress at the 3 month mark, I decided (stupidly) to relapse. Granted, it was on Kratom, so it wasn't that strong of an opiate.

Hypothetically speaking, if I was to never relapse again, how far back will this set me recovery wise? I'm worried that my receptors were just getting used to life without opiates and I could have screwed it up, resetting my progress back to zero. What do you guys think, approximately, about the time it'll take for my body to get back to the 3 month mark?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:44 pm 
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How long did you take the kratom? Was it a one time thing or were you taking it everyday for 2 weeks? I would think that can make a difference.

I can't give you a response about how far this may have set you back in terms of your brain receptors. I know that this is quite a mental blow, but please remember that addiction is a chronic, relapsing disorder of the brain. You didn't relapse because you are weak, stupid, uncaring, etc. Relapsing is a part of the disorder.

Even though we're an anonymous forum, it still took guts to admit your mistake and seek help.

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:17 pm 
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Oh I only did it once. I can't stop worrying about it though!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:22 pm 
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I don't think anyone can give you an honest answer to your question because well we would have to be your brain to know the answer. I would think it would cause a minor wd phase and then you would go back to where you were before, but I just don't know that for a fact. That is just what I would assume. Thanks for coming here and asking for help and being honest. I think that is a major right first step. The next will just have to be staying off all opiates until you feel better. Are you able to exercise? That seems to really help the wds from opiates! It had been a huge turning point for some people in PAWS! I too was on suboxone for two years and jumped from 4mg 26 days ago. Exercise and keeping my mind busy really helps me! It is hard to find motivation, but I just make myself do things.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:29 pm 
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If you only used Kratom once, you really didn't set yourself back as far as wd's are concerned. What you did do by using Kratom was wake the sleeping dragon (aka---your addiction). I slipped several times since coming off Suboxone. My slips were all very breif, 3 to 4 days usually. The wd from those slips was a walk in the park, dealing with that damn dragon that I woke was the real problem.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:37 pm 
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I'm not so worried about the withdrawals, I don't feel much different in that regard. I'm just referring to the process of my brains opiate receptors learning how to live without subs anymore. Well I guess that's PAWS in a sense, which is still withdrawal hahah but yeah.

Like most people on here talk about it taking 6 months- a year to finally start feeling normal again. Now with this one time relapse, how much time do you guys think I'll need to add on to that figure? A couple weeks, months?

Oh and I'm not really worried about awaking the dragon either. I can't stop beating myself up over this, setting my recovery back and not knowing exactly how much damage I've done. And I really didn't enjoy the feelings of Kratom, don't know if it was something about it not agreeing with me or what. But I remember thinking about how I'm not even enjoying the feeling it gave me at all, which is really un-opiate like. Probably a good thing.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:26 pm 
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I have done the calculations (they were pretty damn complex too!!) and I have concluded that you will now need to add 18.4573 seconds to the date which you would have felt normal. You really screwed yourself dude!! You're going to have to endure an extra 18.5 seconds of PAWS. :wink:

BTW, your second paragraph is almost word for word what I said after my first slip.....then I slipped again a few months later. Just keep an open mind and don't underestimate your addiction.

Peace.

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 Post subject: You only did it once!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:28 pm 
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Because you only did it one time and you did not enjoy it so no Dragons got woke up anyway I think you will be fine. Your receptors will likely go right back to where you were already. Hang in there and try not to beat yourself up. We are all addicts here. You said you got frustrated because you weren't feeling progress at three months, what do you mean by that? I am curious.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:16 pm 
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Hahahah 18.5 seconds huh? That's not so bad! :wink: I know that there's no definite answer here, I'm just looking for approximates. How much time would one relapse set you back after 3 months of sobriety?

Oh and what I meant by not feeling much progress after 3 months, I just didn't feel that much better. I didn't notice a huge difference between day 10 and day 90, which is kinda weird...Still had low energy, lack of motivation, insomnia etc etc...Who knows though maybe it just takes a LONG time. Which is why I'm worried I could have made that even longer for myself!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:00 pm 
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I don't think that anyone here has a way of calculating how much harm one use of Kratom would cause. I think that the general consensus is that one use is not going to cause too much damage, but we don't have any scientific way of knowing that.

It sounds like you have a case of PAWS and that sucks getting through. I can't remember if you've said how long you abused opiates, but you have to take that into consideration when wondering how long the PAWS will stick around.

There is light at the end of the tunnel though! You will eventually feel better! In fact, I bet if you went back to how you felt on day 10 you actually would feel a difference from how you feel today. It's hard to recognize progress when it's slow and incremental. Maybe keeping a journal would show you the small improvements in how you feel over time. And keep checking in with us when you need encouragement. We care!

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:55 pm 
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It's so sad and terrible seeing people relapse because of withdrawals and PAWS, even after a slow long taper. You see this is another example of someone tapering low and slow yet still suffering, it does make you wonder if all those rumors and reports of tapering extending misery are true (low doses tend to be more potent then high doses).

It seems you may have wasted your time tapering, perhaps if you had jumped cold turkey or above 1mg you may be feeling some progress? who knows, but if you cannot at all recover even a little bit at 3 months then I dread to think all those people tapering, whether are simply wasting their time and energy, and prolong misery.

You ain't the only one to feel bad at 3 months, there are people feeling what you are at 2 years, even with a slow long taper. It just doesn't seem to work or have any benefits at all. I've seen more people suffer in PAWS from a slow long taper then those who either CT or jump off from 2mgs and over. Maybe my doctor was right that there really is no point tapering down because the bup is simply too strong and a weird med to taper.#


I still feel the same at 0.4mg as I did on 6mg or even 8mg, what does that tell ya? it's liking slowly diving right into a cold pool of ice, whereas CT is simply going direct to a cold pool of ice...There must be and has to be some truth to the tons of reports of tapering making things worse for people in the long run..


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:38 pm 
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My Psychiatrist believes your theory. It is the reason she only wanted me on the Suboxone for 1.5 to 2 years and she wanted me to jump at 4mg which I did. I can totally feel a difference from day 10 for sure. Day ten was terrible. Today is not so bad in comparison, but everyone is different! Today is day 27 for me. I feel much better already. Just not quite there yet!


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 Post subject: And... Icaras BTW....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:42 pm 
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My pdoc Is from Europe. She moved to the States to be an advocate for Suboxone treatment!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:41 am 
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I cannot answer the original poster's question..but that is why after a 20 plus year addiction to hydros ((all i could get))
has me still on 4mg of sub 3 years in. I know me..and i know exactly what I would do without the bup...go right back
out there. How long on it is too long?? I don't know...but I am not willing to take the chance yet. My first dr. treated
me for a year and then suddenly said "heres 30..reduce off..these are not good for you long term..have a nice day??""
So I tried to reduce off but would mess it up and finally ran out taking about 6mg...I was never sick??? No withdrawal??
But in a week or so my stinking thinking said I needed something..and I started looking for the hydros again..
Not wanting to go there again..I found another bup dr...and here i am. I am not saying this is the way...but I am an
addict...always an addict..and cannot afford to go back out...I have nothing but the utmost respect for all of you here
that are trying to get off and staying with it. I am just not ready yet.

Sincerely,
Slipper

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:07 am 
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Icaras, if tapering is such a fools errand then why did you taper down to .4mg? Why not increase your dose up to 6mg or so, stay there for a month or two then jump?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:13 am 
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Tapering and Cold Turkey both have pros and cons. It all depends on the person. I don't think there is proof either way for which one is better. The main thing is that both ways have you going in the direction of recovery.

I personally would do the tapering route to save myself from the torture of WDs. That's if I wanted to be off Suboxone which I don't because it does what it is supposed to.and.. Treats my addiction.


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