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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:00 pm 
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First off, this is an amazing site, thanks to everyone for being a part of it. I was abusing oxy for about 5 months only on the weekends at doses of like 40mg a night, then eventually I started smoking heroin or oxy every day and night for the last 7 months, about half a gram of h a day, or if I had access and the money, 90-120mgs of oxy a day, sometimes more sometimes less.

Recently I finally quit (this had been my 6th time trying) with the aid of Suboxone and Xanax because I graduated college and am now a special education teacher and on my own. I didn't want to live as a drug user anymore, it isn't fair to my students, and it wasn't that fun anymore either, just destructive.

Now I've been clean a month and taking 2-3mgs of suboxone a day, about 1.5mg in the morning, and 1.5 mg at night by snorting along with 1mg of Klonapin to sleep, I snort because I can hardly feel it when I put it under my tongue, I'm aware this isn't smart. But, I feel totally normal and actually very happy, my life is way better now and I feel confident about never using again (something I never felt the other times I quit), but I'm afraid of stopping the subs or how to taper b/c I don't know if I've used it long enough for it to cause horrible withdrawals, and I'm afraid of PAWS since I was using daily for

**My question is: Do I need to taper since I've only been using it for a month at 2-3 mgs a day? And if so, what should my regimen be like?

Being off h and oxy has been amazing, I'm loving my life, career and girl friend, I'm just afraid I'm gonna replace my addiction with subs now, so I want to stop my use the correct and most painless way because my job is demanding andI can't take time off to withdrawal, nor do I think I have it in me to do that again. Thank you so much!

Zim


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:52 am 
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Hi zim and welcome to the forum. I'm glad the site has given you some good information. Yes, you should still taper off the suboxone. Think of it this way...suboxone, although it doesn't get you high, kept your opiate receptors full, so you will still have withdrawals when you quit. I would suggest you get down into the micrograms before you quit. It's generally considered best to do the taper over a long period of time, going slow and getting as low as possible before "jumping" off. This will (should) minimize your discomfort when quitting.

My concern is that you've been snorting your medication. It's one of many of the signs of still being in active addiction. Just keep that in mind. Are you prepared to deal with both triggers and cravings when you start to get low and eventually quit? Do you have new coping skills to deal with life's normal ups and downs?

Lastly, you should probably know that your plan is one that has a high risk of relapse. When someone is on suboxone short term, studies show that the relapse rate is very, very high - even higher for people under 30. I suggest you simply use this knowledge to remain vigilant when you stop the sub. Don't let your guard down and be ready to deal with those cravings I mentioned. It's when one thinks that the addiction is behind them that they are often ill-prepared to handle things that can cause relapse. I hope this makes sense.

Having said all that, I wish you the very best with your plan. And I hope this site can continue to help you through this change.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:18 am 
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What Hatmaker said.

I would def recommend a taper, jumping off now would cause a myriad of problems. Withdrawals that may lead to relapse. Take it slow if you can. Personally I've tapered by reducing somewhere around 20% every four days. Others need to go much more slowly. I had to go a bit more rapidly due to some life circumstances, but as rapidly as I've tapered I've felt zero symptoms/cravings.

I respect your decision, doing this takes total commitment. Commitment to change everything.

I wish you the best!!


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 Post subject: Still Addicted
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:24 pm 
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Zim,

How do you expect to recover when you snort the medication? I remember when I shot dope and the thrill of the needle was part of the experience. Once when I was out of dope I shot water just to do the ritual. Sounds like by snorting it you are practicing the ritual of doping.

If you are really serious about living a clean life, do what is prescribed and no more. If absorption is a problem, speak with your doctor about upping your dose. I suspect it's not the absorption but a need to feel the Sub and get high......yes? Just a guess by a very long time addict.

I wish you the best in recovery.


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 Post subject: That's tough
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:41 pm 
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I just wanted to throw this out there and the more Suboxone educated people can tell me if I'm wrong.

If someone is snorting Suboxone, have they really entered recovery yet? Zim, please oh please don't get offended at what I'm saying. I'm really trying to figure out what the best course of action is for you. I've read on other sites about people snorting Sub and the reason behind it is that they 'feel' it, or it actually makes them high to a degree. That's obviously why you're snorting it, and maybe you don't even realize why you feel the need to do it that way.

I'm no doctor and have no credentials to back up what I'm saying, so you can take it with a grain of salt. I don't think it's a good idea for you to taper off of Suboxone right now. First, you need to get stable taking it under your tongue. Okay, you really will hate this part. I think you need to be at a much higher dose as well. That's the only way you can get relief from the cravings that are driving you to snort it in the first place. Once you are stable at a higher dose and you work on your recovery and get your life all in order and are feeling really good about where you are, then you could consider tapering off Suboxone. I think if you are snorting it, you aren't even at a high enough dose and you are still actually in active addiction. That's just my opinion from the little bit that I read of your story. Please oh please don't be mad that I said that!! I don't feel like giving you tapering advice is a responsible thing right now. Zim, I'm worried for you because this is a recovery drug and there's a mental line that you have crossed in snorting it. It scares me because if you use it that way, I don't know how easy it will be for you to stop and devote yourself to only using it as a recovery drug and taking it the way it's supposed to be taken. That doesn't mean it's impossible. Not at all! It's just something you're going to have to really want to do.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:46 pm 
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Thanks to everyone for their very useful advice, I really appreciate it, I'm not offended by anything that was said, I do see a clear association through the snorting and how I used to snort OC. There were two days a week ago when I only had 2mgs for two days b/c the guy I know was out of subs (I don't have insurance), and I felt kinda bad, but not horrible like with withdrawals, just colder and lacking motivation. Starting tomorrow I'm going to use it under my tongue and then taper around 10% every five days until I make the jump, hopefully that will work. My girlfriend has tapered through snorting and now she takes about .5 mgs a day and seems fine, but I completely agree, the snorting does give me a bit of a kick, and it allows me to enjoy cigarettes, which is one of the things I loved about opiates, when I'm sober I hate smoking cigarettes, so I'm still engaging in many activities that are linked to why I like opiates, and that is going to make the jump difficult. But I must say this is my sixth time trying to quit and I finally have this strong motivation to never use again, even over a month later, I can't articulate the feeling, but I feel good about never using again, I truly like the idea, so this gives me hope in my sobriety off of subs, I've never had this feeling before.


New Question:
Has snorting the subs made me more chemically dependent on them faster than taking them sublingually would?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:52 pm 
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Quote:
Has snorting the subs made me more chemically dependent on them faster than taking them sublingually would?


I don't see why you would be any more or less dependent based on the route of administration. But I'm no expert or chemist or the like. I will say that one gets much more absorption - better bio-availability - when snorting sub, so the person snorting it is probably, technically getting more of their dosage than the person who's taking the same amount of it sublingually. In other words, if two people are both on 2 mg of sub and one takes in under the tongue and the other nasally, the person who is snorting it will get a higher amount of that 2 mg dose. I hope that makes sense.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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 Post subject: Snorting
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:10 pm 
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Thanks for the reply, yes that does make sense, but I would also assume the person snorting would expend the sub from their system faster as well? So in the end both people would still end up getting the same amount of sub, would you agree with this? I'm not rationalizing further snorting, just to let you know, I'm gonna stop that biz. Thanks a lot, this forum really is a great place!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:11 pm 
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure that what Hat said is right. It's easier for it to get through those mucus membranes in your nose. Wait, but then I'm thinking that when you snort it, you are then swallowing a part of it quickly, which renders whatever wasn't absorbed ineffective. Hmmm.....that's a tough one. Obviously, the 'bump' you get from snorting is probably the most addictive part of this method.

When you start taking it under your tongue, just keep an eye on how you feel and see if you do feel like it's giving you w/d or if you feel the same. I'm curious to know. Man oh man, the cold thing is something I REALLY identify with. I'm tapering right now and that's the most annoying part. I call it getting the 'Freezes' because 'cold' just didn't seem to do it enough justice. I'm hooked on those hand/foot warmers they sell at the snowboard shop and my blankie and my fleece robe. Oh, and snow pants. All these little things make it all so much more doable. And so far, tapering off Sub it quite doable IMO, even if it is a little uncomfortable.

Please update about how you are doing. :D

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:16 pm 
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I don't think taking it nasally means that it will leave your body more quickly. There have been some specific numbers posted on the forum about the percentages of bio-availability between sublingual and nasal dosing that I cannot quote right now. But I do remember that snorting had a much higher rate of absorption and it was a pretty solid number.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:51 am 
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Hatmaker510, Thanks, that's valuable info to know, now I see that I'm actually absorbing more than I think I am, if anything it's a better way to use just a little that way in order to save mone yyof course I know the implications of snorting and how it reinforces old habits with strong associations to my using days, but I shall start to tongue method tomorrow and report back to you guys soon, thanks everyone, again, your all awesome.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:45 am 
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The rumor I heard about bio availability is sublingually the rate is 30% and snorting (insufflate) is around 50%.

That's not documented merely a rumor.


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