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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:02 pm 
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I just want to start by saying 3-3 1/2 yrs ago i went to treatment for heroin abuse was put on 12 mg a day of sub. Been on sub ever since. Every time i try to stop it suddenly becomes worse than a heroin WD. I cant explain how i feel. But i dont have any money, laid off, and my parents were paying for the subs but now my doc says i need to stop taking them(idk y because he says everyone gets off them around 2-3 yrs max). So i am in a situation where i need to stop been one day after tapering to 1 mg a day and this is worse than when i stop from 12 mgs. Idk does anyone know anything that can help with the wd and muscle cramping. ever muscle hurts and is super tight from head to toe.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:41 pm 
If you, go to your doctor and ask him to prescribe clonodine. If he is making you jump off subs suddenly like this after over 3 years I would hope he would give you some comfort meds for the first couple weeks. Most sub docs from what ive heard will give clonodine and a long acting benzo like diazepam or clonazepam to help ease the withdrawal a bit. There are generics for all those drugs and you can get them super cheap at walmart. Other than that I realy dont know because Ive never found anything that completely takes away the aching and restlessness/restless legs caused by withdrawal to me it is by far the worst symptom and can make a person go insane. If you have no sub left Ive heard that immodium can cause some relief during withdrawal for the shivering, diarrhea, body aches because immodium is an opiate. It doesnt cross the blood brain barrier but it is an opiate still, I didnt have much luck with it tho except for it stopping the constant running to the bathroom but some people swear by it. I feel for you man i realy do thats a long time to just suddenly be taken off sub and I believe you when you say its worse than heroin withdrawal (ive never done heroin but have heard you can start getting better as soon as 4-5 days). But definitely try to get to a doc to get some meds to help your withdrawal, most doctors unless they hate addicts will give you at least clonodine and probably a benzo or at least some ambien if they see you are visably sick in withdrawal. I could be wrong but thats my experience they always helped me out with something. Good luck


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:53 am 
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It would be unethical to expect any sort of rapid detox. Have you checked into needymeds, gone to your local health dept., etc.? There ARE options. Another would be to check into generic bupe (expensive, but not like suboxone)?

For me, clonidine and loperamide (Immodium) weren't helpful. There is help available, but you must ask. Also, you'll need to rely on the support system you've built during your years on bupe....if you haven't done that, you can only blame yourself.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:18 am 
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Clonidine is the gold standard for opiate withdrawal. Like has been said already, maybe you can get your doctor to prescribe some. I'm sorry to hear you're having such a hard time with the w/d symptoms. Usually sub w/d isn't nearly as bad as full agonist w/d, but of course everyone is different.

Have you considered finding a new doctor who has a slot open for the patient assistance program? It's for people without insurance and it covers your suboxone cost for one year.

Having support systems while in recovery is great and helps a lot. But when it comes to quitting, either because the doc says it's necessary or because of money, that support system doesn't exactly help with the w/d symptoms. I don't believe it's very nice to tell a new member here that something like this is "his (her) own fault".

I sincerely hope you find some way to relieve some of your discomfort. We're glad you're here and will try to support you in any way we can. Hang in there and keep posting!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:12 pm 
Were here for you dethmetaldan if you need a place to talk about everything. This is a great forum for that!! I hope things get better for you!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:34 pm 
Wow moman, that was slightly inappropriate to say to a newcomer. Maybe a little bit more sympathy for the newcomer.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:44 pm 
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Ok lets start with i was in a bad place last night with the WD's. I wasnt really getting my point across. I can go to see the doctor he did nothing wrong he wants me off subs tho by june. I just have no way to pay for them now i am off them. I have some clonidine i found last night from when i was in treatment. It helped me get some sleep. But as I can tell so far i prolly wont post again.

edit:Btw I had asked my doc in the past about switchting to subutex for generics. It is not an option as i have extreme needle fetish and would prolly end up blasting it. I haven't done drugs since i been on sub(threw that in there before someone gets all apeshit on me again)


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 Post subject: Oh man, I'm so sorry
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:50 pm 
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I'm so sorry your going through this. I can kind of relate. I'm tapering right now, and it's sometimes pretty rough. Before Sub w/d I'd never experienced opiate w/d, so to me it was totally horrific until I was educated and knew what to expect. Also, my insurance changed and will not cover any Sub, films or tablets or generic. I'm paying for tabs out of pocket and it's sooooo expensive. That's one big reason I'm pushing myself to go down.

Please, please, please don't stop posting. There's lots of us trying to get off Sub and we need each other. We'll do whatever we can to be here for you until you get through this and even after that. I haven't tried the Clonidine yet, but I do hope my doc will prescribe some eventually. So far, he's been reluctant and I don't get why. I take Alleve for my aches and it actually WORKS!! I really recommend trying it. I also take Klonopin, which is a Benzo, so I'm never sure if I should recommend it to someone. It does help, though. I wait until I'm going crazy and then take my Alleve and .5 mg of Klonopin. Normally that gets me through and eventually, you will stabilize at your lower dose.

There's tons of tricks to tapering below 1 mg so the jump isn't so awful. From what I understand, you tapered to 1 mg and then stopped, right? How long were you at 1 mg? Do you have any left and if not, can you get some more? I'm telling you that 1 mg is a decently high jumping point and you will be sick. It's not in your head and it's not your fault. It's not mild either, even if that's what your doctor told you. There's a liquid taper method, but it does involve a barrel and plunger and I'm afraid if that's a trigger for you. Other people powder the Sub and divide it into little approximate piles, thus creating small doses without using the liquid taper. The powdered Sub can be put onto a folded paper and poured under your tongue. There's much more, but I'm not totally sure where you're at with your Sub, as in if you are decidedly off and done or not. I'm planning on tapering to under 200 micrograms before jumping. 1 mg is 1000 micrograms. Apparently, getting under 200 micrograms make the jump much, much easier.

Other people on here have jumped from HIGH doses, like 8 mg or more. I do not know how they did it, but they somehow did and they got better. If you have to jump now and there's no other way, you WILL get through it. It WILL get better. You need support, though, so please stick around and give us a chance.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:58 pm 
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To clarify: the "fault" I was referring to would be spending years on the medication without doing anything else for recovery. So many folks I talk to rely solely on the medication, then wonder why problems ensue. Often, these problems get blamed on the doctor or the medication. Experiencing withdrawals or having the disease is obviously not any patient's fault....but our recovery is always our responsibility.

I apologize, dethmetaldan....obviously I could have phrased this better!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:47 pm 
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I do realize tho where my finger is pointed and trust me its right back at myself. I honestly wish i never went to subs. This is hell. But it was worse when i went to detox after a ten bag a day habit. I did stop going to AA/NA meetings. Just needed some info on it. And yes I am down to 1 mg a day at the end.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:00 pm 
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You still have options. Have you checked into the free meds program? Depending on where you live, some social services will assist you. It'll take some work, but the potential consequences of stopping before you are ready outweigh just about anything. Be very careful with clonidine....unsupervised use can cause more problems than it solves!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:54 pm 
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moman wrote:
You still have options. Have you checked into the free meds program? Depending on where you live, some social services will assist you. It'll take some work, but the potential consequences of stopping before you are ready outweigh just about anything. Be very careful with clonidine....unsupervised use can cause more problems than it solves!


I know for a fact that i cant get my subs from the services in my county. only option i have as i am on the waiting list for the health care in my state. County services dont believe in sub or methadone for maintenance. I found a few things out thru the suboxone site about maybe get it for a year free. we will see tho. As of now i am doing alot better and i did have 4 more subs i can get from the pharmacy but i htink since its been a couple days might as well ride it out. ty for the hints and taking ur time to post.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:10 am 
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That "free meds" program is called needymeds and is sponsored by R-B. You apply through your doctor....trouble is that each doc can only have a limited number of patients on it. Ask, see if there is an opening, then proceed. Good luck!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:31 am 
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Actually, the free meds program through Reckitt-Benckiser is called the "Patient Assistance Program". I posted some information about it under the "Links" section of the forum (http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2283). It's for people who are uninsured and if approved they get one year of suboxone for free. Each doctor is allowed to have up to 3 patients on the program at one time.

Hope this helps.

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 Post subject: re:patient assistance
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:56 pm 
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Yeah i stay with my mom her retirement is too much of an income for it. But I really feel better after three days or on day three idk even really. last few days have been hectic. But the convulsing muscles stopped that is all i know. I guess i am just done with suboxone but i did go back to NA meeting last night. I felt good enuff but was scared of my old sponsor being, dissapointed maybe?? idk all i know is people at NA/AA are to happy to see people come back.Made my week tho. ty all for the help i will say i did not know clonidine helpd with w/d symtoms but a quater of a .1mg makes a difference i just try to only take it when have too. But ty all. Hopefully this is my last kick off opiates.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:14 pm 
Dethmetaldan:

You dont put your mom's income. If you have income you put it, if you dont then you put no income. Thats how it was explained to me. It doesnt matter that you live with your mom. You can live with your mom and still support yourself. Seriously, i live with my mom and i support myself, and also was approved for the patient assistance program. You may wanna look back into that. An dont put your mom's income. If you have your own income, put that down. If you dont have your own income, put down no income.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:50 pm 
Yeah I was approved as well and I live with parents too, I just have to wait for a slot to open but I do meet the criteria.


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