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 Post subject: Thank you ALL!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:19 pm 
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This has been an amazing group to provide me with honest and informed information. I thank each and every one for what you have shared.

Amy-Work In Progress
I agree, from a non-addict's view, that the "Family Physician" who can legally prescribe Subx should require counseling. It is a money cow for doctors like so many other things. I don't know how this could be changed but I think it should be a requirement.

I will read Dry Drunk. That sounds like it may provide great insight.

I will continue to check in on this thread and hope for more feedback. My sons would not like attending the meetings but I don't care - anything to help them heal in whatever way they need healing. I AM VERY thankful for Subx and to have them clean- in a sort of way. I just feel it's another drug that will one day need to be taken off their "medication list".

As for the T test I will suggest that to my family doctor who is also the doctor of the gaming/younger son. He is the one I have concerns about with depression. He also "appears or Sounds" like he is arguing with everyone but he does not see it that way. It's his tone or look - something. His co-workers think that if he discusses something he is arguing. I can see that because he does the same with me and his father (another one on subx that I can't go to for support on our sons because he knows everything too lol). The son honestly doesn't feel he is agruementative but he really is. Maybe it's just the genetics of my sons. Their dad is a smartass and I am perfectly grounded (really LMAO). I have a strong personality is a better way to describe me.

I can't thank you all enough. I am anxious to read the link provided. THANK YOU ALL!!!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:06 pm 
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To tell you the truth mom, it sounds like a pretty typical family to me, at least typical of a family with rampant addiction issues. Both my mother and father, also my two brothers are or were addicts. My mother didn't really get too down and dirty until her 80s.She made up for lost time in a hurry.

A son really hasn't really lived until he's had to undress his drunken, elderly mother in order to get her into bed.


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 Post subject: Drunken mom
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Well I say if she made it to 80 she deserves to tie one on here and there. Sorry for your visual but we never know what things we might see before we leave this earth. Got to love mom for hanging in there at 80.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:56 pm 
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I think it's a money maker for some, but I don't think a family physician has the same type of practice. My doctor accepts insurance and I don't have to pay out of pocket for most things. He always spends enough time to make me feel heard. I'm also pretty sure that he does require most of his addicted patients to be receiving some sort of therapy. I have been a special case because I am in school to be a counselor and I did have an addiction counselor for the first year or so. I've been a stable, compliant patient for over 5 years now.

My problem is that there are no recommendations on the books for physicians prescribing buprenorphine, so the ones who are not in it for the right reasons don't have their patients in therapy. I think there should at least be state guidelines in place.

I obviously don't know enough about your sons to know what exactly they need. However, from what you describe about your younger son, I think it would be best if he had a psychiatrist or therapist who was capable of identifying and other disorders that may be co-occurring with his addiction. When co-workers detect a very contrary attitude, it could be a sign of a disorder. My best friends husband was very difficult to deal with in the opinion of his family, his friends (not that he had many), and his co-workers. It turns out that he has a personality disorder. There are several different kinds. It's just a thought. I hope that you can end up finding some answers.

Hey Godfrey, I'm afraid I have the same type of image of my Great Aunt Be and she never drank a day in her life! But when you're 93 someone has to help you put a bra on! Gravity is not kind and she was a very large chested woman!

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:46 pm 
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To add a little about the doctors....This is the setting I'm in, and have been in for almost 3-4 years...I don't remember exactly when I started but its been a while.

My neighbor also goes to the same clinic, but doesn't see the same doctor. (Same neighbor who lost her husband/my VERY good friend back in September).
I started at this clinic, then told my neighbor about it, and she was "referred" by me to the same clinic, but with a different doctor (because she's on Medicaid)..

So...I see a doctor who's an older lady. She's very nice, and listens to me...sometimes we talk about my kids..sometimes it's about addiction or what's going on in the addiction world with this epidemic we're facing now...
And like, today at my appointment (Feb 7)...we talked about this site (quick, 20-30 second explanation about Dr Jeff and this site and people posting their 'stories' here.)...
I told her that I wish everyone could have access to this type of resource (this site)....
And if not, then maybe the Sub doctor should recommend a diary to be kept..and in a few months/years, look back on that diary and see where you are in treatment-recovery.
She doesn't rush me to get me out...we sit and talk...and there's no pushing me out for the next one. I think we've talked for upwards of 30 minutes a time or two...I really enjoy seeing her perspective and what she deals with on that aspect...and I tell her what I think which usually coincides exactly with her thoughts of addiction. As she told me today...we're barely touching the tip of the iceberg with addiction and treatment...

Now, to my neighbor..
Her doctor --- in the very same building / clinic --- is not someone I'd want to spend 5 minutes around. Let alone, have him prescribing my Suboxone.
He won't hear of her having more than 2 a day and has been that way since she started going there. Her medicaid can sometimes cause her major delays because of the stupid PA's they have to acquire in order to get meds filled....she has scoliosis ...and obviously isn't selling her meds on the street..but he treats her like she's so freaking dishonest..
It's hard for me to comprehend how my doctor can be so nice and understanding (and willing to help if I just ask her)...but then my neighbor's doctor, in the same building/practice...can be such an ass to her.

Just for example with my doctor and how willing she is to hear me out and help...
Back in November at my appointment, I mentioned to her that I was cutting really close to running out of my meds...her response was "what happened? you've done so well for over 2 years now without even the smallest issue"...
And I was honest. I told her that I was having some back problems...and instead of trying to take something else...I just took a couple extra subs here and there...and it helped.
She volunteered an increase in my dose.. "why don't we go up to 3.5 per day for the next 3 months to get you caught up?"...
I was so happy that she was willing to do that. It really cemented the feeling I have...that I am lucky and have a good doctor!!
When I went back today, I was again, very honest. I told her..."if it's not a problem, can we just stay where I am? I'd like to be able to have a safety net..plus I feel much better with the anxiety and such having that extra 1/2 a strip per day...it's not much but it helps me out"..

Her response, again, was "sure..that's not a problem at all"
Then she said "I do have to let you know that the DEA won't allow us to go over 4 /day..."
And I was frank when I told her that I was happy with 3.5...and didn't see the need to go that high with them.
I really just want to put a few up for a possible...whatever may happen. You just never know.

So, I'm a firm believer that some doctors, not all, are really interested in helping out and doing a small part to curb the epidemic.
I'd say people like Dr. Jeff and even my doctor are instrumental in this.
The doctor my neighbor has...not so much.
I'd say he's part of the problem....the mindset those docs have is ALL backwards.
You messed up? Let's punish you by taking some of your life-saving medicine away..
And they cut your dose in half or more than that...and you're left feeling like crap, plus facing possible withdrawals and relapse because some ass-backwards doctor has a theory that "if you f*** up, you should somehow do better taking LESS of the medicine that saves lives..instead of being told "hey, it's part of recovery...don't beat yourself up...but let's try not to keep making the same mistakes, ok?"

I don't understand that. And never will. Punish people for making what's bound to happen in recovery -- a mistake. We all made them...and some of us will still make a few now and then.
I've made a few in my nearly 10 years. And I still find myself making a mistake now and then..whether it's not paying close enough attention and taking 4-5 in one day...or whether it's not being adamant about keeping my meds locked up..luckily I haven't had anyone steal from me or nothing ...but we are all guilty in one way or another of not being totally responsible 100% of the time. As times goes on and we learn from our mistakes, this should decrease...but it's just bound to happen...and doctors shouldn't be waiting like a teacher with a ruler to slap your palm ...and take away your medicine when you slip up...
But, it happens every single day. And people die every single day. They are playing God with people's lives and they just don't realize the effect they have on their patients when they criticize and play wac-a-mole with their dosages.

Maybe something I said will help...just some thoughts I wanted to put out there for whomever may find use in them. (Plus it's been a while since I just sat and posted what was on my mind).

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:13 pm 
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My doctor is a psychiatrist and my clinic requires a lot of extra counseling. I went to the doctor last week and realized they've started an IOP program that's 3 hr counseling 3 days a week. The ppl that's required to do the IOP are ppl that's violated rules or failed their drug screens. Instead of getting kicked out like they used to, now they have a chance to stay with this new program.

If ur going to be prescribing medication for addiction, I think counseling and close monitoring should be considered especially in the early stages or if a patient is going bk to old ways. I also think that if u have a patient that's proven how trustworthy they are or how well they've done, they should get a little recognition for that too. Us addicts love to be praised for our good work :)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:01 pm 
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jennjenn wrote:
My doctor is a psychiatrist and my clinic requires a lot of extra counseling. I went to the doctor last week and realized they've started an IOP program that's 3 hr counseling 3 days a week. The ppl that's required to do the IOP are ppl that's violated rules or failed their drug screens. Instead of getting kicked out like they used to, now they have a chance to stay with this new program.

If ur going to be prescribing medication for addiction, I think counseling and close monitoring should be considered especially in the early stages or if a patient is going bk to old ways. I also think that if u have a patient that's proven how trustworthy they are or how well they've done, they should get a little recognition for that too. Us addicts love to be praised for our good work :)


That's a great point, Jenn. My doctor gives me a lot of latitude for being a compliant patient. For example, I only have to go in to the office 4 times a year. The months in between I have a video appointment with him or one of the PAs. Doctors can tell which patients are passing all the UAs and not running out of their medication early, etc., and reward them for their good behavior.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:00 am 
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Yes, that's exactly what I meant, that type of trust would mean so much to me. Ur experience seems awesome Amy. Sometimes I feel like..... I see patients coming and going just as quick and I'm being put in a lot of their rules even though I've followed every rule for 5 years without breaking even one, no drug test nothing. It would be nice to be rewarded just a tiny bit with trust.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:30 pm 
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I'm very lucky to have found the doctor that treats me. I just had my appointment last Thursday and everything went well. She spends an hour with each patient and we fill it pretty quickly talking. When my appointment was finished this time we scheduled my next and she told me to have a great month and to contact her if I needed to. I then realized that I didn't give her my sample and reminded her I hadn't done it yet. She simply said that since they have all came back great that she wasn't going to give me one this month. I don't mind doing it, it's part of the deal, but it was nice to be recognized for my compliance-especially since I only started seeing her in September


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:21 pm 
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Totally unreasonable on my part, but I hate giving urine samples. I want to say "screw you," or "tell you what, I'll give one if you give one too. For all I know you have a drug problem too."

Again, i understand it's for the doctors protection and I suppose mine too, but I dislike the default lack of trust. Irrationally, I take it personally. And I don't like having to answer personal questions about my life when I don't see how it can do any good. My current doctor calls himself an addiction psychiatrist but if he's taken a bunch of extra classes and had additional training in order to call himself that, it's not immediately apparent. He does't seem to understand that at high doses bupe is not a very effective pain med, or even fails to provide any relief at all, and he doesn't seem to understand the ceiling effect. Half the time he says things that I just end up letting pass, because what difference does it make. Just please write my script.

He keeps wanting to practice psychiatry on me. Last time he insisted I needed to be treated for depression, which I know just isn't true. Chronic pain certainly gets to me sometimes and on a bad day I can seem down, but I'd know if I were depressed outside of that. I feel like I have to fend him off every session.

Wow, what a rant. My apologies. But if felt good to get it off my chest.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:56 pm 
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HTOWN wrote:
I'm very lucky to have found the doctor that treats me. I just had my appointment last Thursday and everything went well. She spends an hour with each patient and we fill it pretty quickly talking. When my appointment was finished this time we scheduled my next and she told me to have a great month and to contact her if I needed to. I then realized that I didn't give her my sample and reminded her I hadn't done it yet. She simply said that since they have all came back great that she wasn't going to give me one this month. I don't mind doing it, it's part of the deal, but it was nice to be recognized for my compliance-especially since I only started seeing her in September

is this your MAT doctor or your counselor??

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:58 pm 
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jennjenn wrote:
My doctor is a psychiatrist and my clinic requires a lot of extra counseling. I went to the doctor last week and realized they've started an IOP program that's 3 hr counseling 3 days a week. The ppl that's required to do the IOP are ppl that's violated rules or failed their drug screens. Instead of getting kicked out like they used to, now they have a chance to stay with this new program.

If ur going to be prescribing medication for addiction, I think counseling and close monitoring should be considered especially in the early stages or if a patient is going bk to old ways. I also think that if u have a patient that's proven how trustworthy they are or how well they've done, they should get a little recognition for that too. Us addicts love to be praised for our good work :)


that's a really awesome idea. they get extra help and get to remain in the program. plus who would want to go thru NINE!!!!!!!!! hours of counseling in a week again!?
is this your MAT dr? at the clinic I go to if you fail a test, i've heard of them letting people off with a warning but if it happens again you can't get your meds for 2 weeks. if you have enough stashed you'd be find, but if not, it's like they are pushing people back into their DOC!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Yes it is my suboxone doctor, I go to a clinic. Like ur doctor, if anyone failed a drug screen or didn't follow rules they'd be discharged. Sometimes I'm sure there were warnings but regardless not many second chances. But now this new IOP program gives those ppl another chance with plenty of extra counseling and monitored very closely. If nothing else, maybe it'll give some patients more motivation to do better, because not many ppl want or can go to therapy 9 hrs a week. But it's definitely better than the alternative of getting kicked out.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:07 pm 
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SisterMorphine wrote:
HTOWN wrote:
I'm very lucky to have found the doctor that treats me. I just had my appointment last Thursday and everything went well. She spends an hour with each patient and we fill it pretty quickly talking. When my appointment was finished this time we scheduled my next and she told me to have a great month and to contact her if I needed to. I then realized that I didn't give her my sample and reminded her I hadn't done it yet. She simply said that since they have all came back great that she wasn't going to give me one this month. I don't mind doing it, it's part of the deal, but it was nice to be recognized for my compliance-especially since I only started seeing her in September

is this your MAT doctor or your counselor??



She is my MAT dr


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