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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:53 pm 
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:cry: My Mom takes,

6-30 mg Oxycodones per day plus 4-Morphine 30mg extended release 4 times a day.


Her doctor told her Suboxone woudn't touch her tolerance.


I don't believe it but could it be true?I heard her Doc say it...

Does she have a chance? She hates the life she is living.With all those pills she still constantly craves her next dose and will take way more if sh manages to get her hands on it...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:27 am 
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I am no doctor, but I do think suboxone will help, even with her tolerance level. I am taking about 120 - 160 mg oxy a day and I have taken suboxone before and it helped, I just didnt have a subscription. But everyone is different, it wouldnt hurt to try, if anything it could only help. Thats just my opinion. I hope everything works out for your mom.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:36 am 
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Hi there dont sleep,

I am so sorry to hear about your mom. I know the hell of being so badly addicted to huge doses of opiates. I have no idea why your moms doctor would say that Sub will not touch her tolerance. I was taking about the same amount if not more than your mom is, and Sub is working for me just fine. As a matter of fact, Sub literally saved my life as I had lost all hope of ever getting well and in recovery.

I know that there is a celing level to Suboxone and that is why most methadone patients are supposed to get below 30mg of methadone before they try to induct to Suboxone. Your moms doc might be getting his information confused. Of course it would be a much easier induction for your mother if she could taper her dose some, especially the extended release morphine (is she does not crush or chew her ER pills).

My induction did not go well from oxycontin. I was taking anywhere between 300 - 1000 mg of oxy depending on the availability and cost. I chewed my pills, getting rid of the extended release. I was in horrible withdrawals, but still think I took my sub too soon, not really sure, BUTafter the first few days, I felt okay and every day sonce hasonly gotten better.

I hope that your moms doctor did not scare your mom from considering Suboxone. It sounds like she is not very happy with her life right now, so what does she have to lose by at least trying Sub.

So, yes your mom does have a chance!!!!!!

Ginger


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:58 am 
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If I were you I would encourage your mom to get a second opinion about that. Not to get into a numbers thing (I took x amount of this or that and a friend of mine was using x amount of this) but I have not met more than a couple of opiate addicts that suboxone was not strong enough. The amount of medication your mom is currently taking is not a "jaw dropping" amount of opiates. Don't get me wrong, that is a lot of pain medication but I would suspect most of us on here were taking similar, if not more, amounts of opiates. I never like to talk about how much or how many mg's of drugs I used to take (for some reason I feel like I am bragging or something) but there were points in my active addiction when I was using 3 or 4 times that amount. A friend of mine was easily going through 50 bags of heroin a day (roughly 2.5 grams) and he started at 20mg of suboxone. Please don't take anything I say as medical advice or fact, these are just my experiences with suboxone induction. That is why I think a second opinion, with a doctor who specializes in chemical dependency, would be beneficial. Hope some of this made sense and helped. Good luck.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:37 am 
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I agree with Smoothy that a second opinion might be the best thing for your mom. I hope she doesn't take the opinion of one doctor as gospel and stops trying to get help. I would encourage her to contact another sub doctor.

Good luck and please do keep us posted on how things are.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:17 am 
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Hi There:

When I finally started taking suboxone, I was crunching up at least 200mg per day of oxycontin, sometimes more. And I wasn't even really getting high any more, I was just getting to a point of not being sick.

In short, I think the doctor who told your mother that suboxone wouldn't work for her is dead wrong.

She will have to endure some fairly significant withdrawal to get to the point where she can successfully induct, but if it worked for someone like me who was taking what I was taking, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume it would also work for your mom.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:05 pm 
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I agree. I was taking about 280mg oxycontin per day and suboxone worked wonderfully for me. Many doctors don't understand suboxone. What is the worst thing that could happen? Might as well try it and I am pretty confident it will work just fine.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:52 am 
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Thanks so much guys n gals! After me reading her all these posts,my mom has agreed to try Suboxone!
I will be getting her an appt. as soon as possible for Induction!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:38 pm 
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I really have to wonder if what your mom's doc was actually talking about was your mom's pain issues. I'm actually surprised no one else brought this up but since they didn't... that is what I thought of as soon as I read your post. I most certainly agree with what everyone else has said in that it is almost a certainty that Suboxone will be able to handle your mom's withdrawal, cravings, etc., so long as she is properly inducted. What Suboxone may not be able to do, and what I have a hunch this doctor was really trying to say, is the pain that your mom is taking these drugs for in the first place may not be controlled as well. While some people report good pain control from Suboxone, in general, Sub is not one of the better pain medications out there - especially for intense or severe pain. If it works, that is awesome, and I honestly think you are extremely lucky that it works as well as it does, but often times people seem to report that Sub does not address their pain nearly as well as their former opiates did.

Now, saying all that, it also appears that some people who end up on high levels of opiates find that their pain is not actually as bad as they think it will be when they stop their medication. There are actually some good reasons behind this happening. Either way, I really think that your mom will respond well to Suboxone - just like many other people have. Her pain control just might become an issue. Perhaps you may suggest that your mom clarify this with her doc. If, this doc actually does believe that Suboxone will not work for your mom from a withdrawal standpoint based on her current level of opiate use, a second opinion from a different doc is very much in order.

One way or another, I very strongly believe that Sub is likely to work for the addiction/dependence end of things, it just may not be enough to control her pain.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:51 am 
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donh wrote:
I really have to wonder if what your mom's doc was actually talking about was your mom's pain issues. I'm actually surprised no one else brought this up but since they didn't... that is what I thought of as soon as I read your post. I most certainly agree with what everyone else has said in that it is almost a certainty that Suboxone will be able to handle your mom's withdrawal, cravings, etc., so long as she is properly inducted. What Suboxone may not be able to do, and what I have a hunch this doctor was really trying to say, is the pain that your mom is taking these drugs for in the first place may not be controlled as well. While some people report good pain control from Suboxone, in general, Sub is not one of the better pain medications out there - especially for intense or severe pain. If it works, that is awesome, and I honestly think you are extremely lucky that it works as well as it does, but often times people seem to report that Sub does not address their pain nearly as well as their former opiates did.

Now, saying all that, it also appears that some people who end up on high levels of opiates find that their pain is not actually as bad as they think it will be when they stop their medication. There are actually some good reasons behind this happening. Either way, I really think that your mom will respond well to Suboxone - just like many other people have. Her pain control just might become an issue. Perhaps you may suggest that your mom clarify this with her doc. If, this doc actually does believe that Suboxone will not work for your mom from a withdrawal standpoint based on her current level of opiate use, a second opinion from a different doc is very much in order.

One way or another, I very strongly believe that Sub is likely to work for the addiction/dependence end of things, it just may not be enough to control her pain.


donh,
I understand fully what you have posted and you may be right because right after the induction she said she wanted her pills back...I know she ha some pain issues but I truly beleive she fears life without her oxy and morphine.Tomorrow she's going back on the pills...I'm so sad because there are other ways to deal with phisical pain than living with opiates.I was in Brazil for a year and people with problems like hers get injections of everything but opiates and still survive.Brazil only gives morphine or codeine for trauma pain or cancer patients.They don't even have oxycodone there.I just lost my father to cancer and I don't want to lose my mom to an overdose.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:56 am 
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So she already went through the induction and decided to go back to the full agonists? What happened to change her mind? I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I can hear the worry and frustration in your words. It must be hell having to sit and watch your mom go through this.

As for the pain issue, Suboxone is not the greatest at handling pain. For me, it merely makes my pain tolerable or manageable, but I am by no means pain-free. BUT - that is the nature of chronic pain, is it not? I still had pain on the full agonists, too. The sub might help her depending on what her pain is from.

I hate to say this, but maybe she's just not ready? Unfortunately, we can't force another person into treatment (not usually anyway). They have to want it.

I'd say keep trying, keep trying, keep trying. From what I can tell by what you wrote, she barely gave sub a try. Again, I'm so sorry that this chaos is about to begin again for the both of you. Please keep us posted on how you're doing. We're here for you both.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:09 am 
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I have to agree with Hatmaker that she may not be ready. I was on sub for addiction and became addicted as a result of chronic pain. When I first went on the sub, I was quite frustrated that it didn't seem to touch the pain, but the addiction was primary for me at the time. I lived with it. When I later went off suboxone, I realized it DID actually help the pain. The difference was that I could still feel the pain on suboxone and to me, if I felt pain, the drug wasn't working. Only when I stopped taking sub did I realize how suboxone actually decreased the intensity of it enough that I could live my life most of the time. You have to really be ready to deal with the addiction in order to do this when you have pain. It isn't easy.

I wish you and your mom the best.

Cherie

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Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:38 am 
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Thanks guys.She already started her regular routine today...Like you both said,she's not ready and I can't force her.
I hate it and almost hate her for not giving the sub a chance.I am very sad to see her addiction so clear and out in the open.
Well,I feel I have to distance myself from her a bit because that's all I will talk about with her if I continue seeing her everyday.She won't wanna hear it and get fed up listening to me.So I don't want to do that to her but I can't sit there and see her take one more pill.

Thanks again,
Tony


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