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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:18 pm 
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..and I can't tell? I feel a little fuzzy but fairly clear. I don't feel as though my cravings have gone anywhere. I still want my opiates/methadone!

So...what should I be feeling? And how long??


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:29 pm 
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A) How many mg did you take? And how much methadone were you taking before?

B) If you have a heavy habit of anything, you most likely will not get immediate relief off sub. There are most likely three things that can happen when a person switches to sub:

1. Gets a rush or feels sick from too much opiate. This happens when the sub dose is stronger than their usual DOC.
2. Gets some relief from DOC withdrawals but do not feel high or sick. (this is preferred)
3. Goes into major withdrawals because the suboxone knocks off the DOC from their receptors violently.

C) Consider yourself lucky if you are not sick. The cravings could last until you stabilize on the right dose.

D) 50 minutes isn't exactly long enough.. hang in there!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:43 pm 
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thank you tinydancer for replying to a few of my questions! I appreciate it.

Okay, here's the scoop. I wasn't a heavy opiate user at all and I'm super sensitive to meds. I was on 25mg of methadone and haven't taken it in 4 days. I've felt w/d symptoms for 2 days now. I wasn't in heavy w/d...rated on the COW scale as "moderate" at 16, but of course to any user it feels quite severe.

It's been close to about to an hour now and I took almost the full 8mg strip. I do feel slightly more comfortable. Mouth is dry. Appetite has increased (no!).

Thing is...I was on suboxone before about a year and a half ago and it worked so-so. By the end of treatment (a year later) though I was on 3, 8mg tabs! A LOT as far as I've read. At the start I felt it immediately...a slight high, good buzz and overall happy feeling. I guess thats what I expected...

I hate that I'm chasing after a high still. I do want to quit, I'm just not 100% certain whats best for me. If I had days I could write a novel about how life has changed for me in so many negative ways and for so many reasons (including drugs). I can argue that pain meds have helped...then I could argue the opposite. I'm SO conflicted! I just don't know what to think anymore. I'm truly in a rut. Problem is I have way too much time on my hands (aka, no job) that I sit and think think think. I'm trapped in my own mind.

So, pardon any ranting posts or posts that ask numerous questions. I just need help...thats apparent right?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:18 am 
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Aww.. I feel for you. *hugs*

Here's the deal, quickly as I try to get out of work. Feel grateful that you aren't sick. That's worst case scenario, right? I know you were probably looking for that little buzz, like most of us are at one point, but you won't feel that unless you take too much. 8 mg is even too much in your case, in my opinion based-on-what-you-were-taking-non-medical-advice-kind-of-way. I think you are right smack in the middle of the addiction struggle. I'm not sure you are desperate enough to want/need change but I hope that you'll stick it out regardless. If you were able to go off methadone for 4 days with slight/ annoying wds.. that's a good thing. I hate to even suggest going on suboxone at all but if you feel you can't stay clean right now, sub may help. Or not, if you've already used it. It really all depends on one's state of being/ frame of mind. You need to really want this in order for it to really work. Otherwise, you're just trading one thing in for the next and chasing a buzz no matter how you can get it.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:24 am 
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tinydancer wrote:
You need to really want this in order for it to really work. Otherwise, you're just trading one thing in for the next and chasing a buzz no matter how you can get it.




That's the deal,,, right there.

I don't have anything more to add,,,,
except


I wish you the very best of luck in whatever you decide to do :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:49 am 
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The first day switching to Suboxone from methadone is never comfortable. You can't expect it to give you 100% relief from your cravings and withdrawal. I found it takes 2-3 days of taking it each day before I felt pretty decent.

Reason for that is that methadone (and buprenorphine for that matter) binds to your fat cells. Right now you have some methadone still in your system seeping out of your lipids and buprenorphine is displacing it / blocking it from your receptors. Also, your brain has to adjust a bit to the relatively mild stimulation it gets from buprenorphine compared to methadone. That can take a lil while.

It's weird, but I clearly remember enduring some precipitated withdrawl-ish feelings the day I first induced on Subutex from methadone. While the buprenorphine definitely gave me some relief, with it came a kinda edgy speedy feeling that I associated with PW. So I'm of the opinion that every transition from methadone -> Sub comes with a bit of discomfort. It's just a matter of how much.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:45 pm 
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How are you feeling this morning? Any improvement?

You said, "I can argue that pain meds have helped...then I could argue the opposite. I'm SO conflicted! I just don't know what to think anymore. I'm truly in a rut. Problem is I have way too much time on my hands (aka, no job) that I sit and think think think. I'm trapped in my own mind."

IMO, simply being on Suboxone is not enough to halt our addiction. Have you considered seeing an addiction counselor? He/she may be able to help with some of these issues you're having. During my time on Suboxone, I saw my addiction counselor pretty regularly (every month or so) and he helped me make sense of my addiction and he helped me with ways to overcome it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:19 pm 
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once again, thanks everyone for taking time to reply. This morning I'm very groggy. Seems as though it might have krpt me up late last night...I was wired until 6am!

This morning I feel better, not 100% but better. I think a part of all this is that I'm hopeful it will work this time, thus the positive feelings I woke up with. Like many of said...SO much of this addiction game is mental. I think more so with me as I'm quite the thinker and dweller.

YES I need to seek out new therapists, probably an addiction one as I have other addictions (ex, shopping/spending money I dont have). We just moved so just settling in here and will have to find one I click with. In the past I've gone through so many doctors...they all are so, well, by the book and clinical. I simply need to find one I connect with thats down to earth and *realistic* about this disease.

Now, another question: I'm supposed to take the subs twice a day but with my addiction, I always took my pill at night. Shouldn't I follow the same pattern? Or at least take 2 of them at later hours? I'm assuming the sleeplessness will subside as this kicks in...

Thanks again all!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:57 pm 
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I got lucky with my addiction counselor, he was the first one I tried and we clicked right off the bat. He's a recovering heroin addict, he has 20 plus years clean. Right away, I knew I could trust what he said. Even though I trusted what he said, I didn't always listen, yet he was always very patient with me. I'm really lucky I had a great addiction counselor. I hope you find a great one too!

I understand your being a thinker, I'm the same way....except in my case it becomes obsessive sometimes. The obsessiveness is part of my addiction.

Anyhoo, I'm glad you're feeling better.

As far as taking your pill at night, I never could do that because it kept me awake. Like you said about feeling wired, that was me. The latest I took my Suboxone was 4pm or 5pm, that's the only way I could sleep good.

Are you being prescribed 2 of the 8mg pills or films per day? 16mg of Suboxone per day seems a bit excessive for your history. By taking too much Suboxone, you're only driving your opiate tolerance higher. You have to do what works for you and take what you need to keep the cravings at bay, I'd just hate to see you drive your tolerance up. KWIM?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:26 pm 
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Hey Romeo...I called a therapist today but only left a message...no call back yet so we'll see on that one. I def need to get that in motion.

I'm prescribed one 8mg film a day. I just took the two parts within the past few hours and feel good. I'm energized, feeling positive and getting things done. Today I felt great! I actually went out in public and shopped (seldom do that unless high). I didn't get anxious...worry...get all crabby and irritated. I felt NORMAL. Like, normal as in the days before drugs. It felt wonderful, just positively beautiful. It's funny as I read back what I just wrote. Odd. But fabulous.

That's all I want. To go about day to day without dwelling on getting high and when my next "fix" will be. I sure hope this lasts because I truly want to be a normal human being again! Is that too much to ask :D


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:03 pm 
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Normal is wonderful, isn't it? :wink:

Are you still doing pretty good? Do you feel like the Sub is doing its thing?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:12 pm 
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yupI'mnew wrote:
Hey Romeo...I called a therapist today but only left a message...no call back yet so we'll see on that one. I def need to get that in motion.

I'm prescribed one 8mg film a day. I just took the two parts within the past few hours and feel good. I'm energized, feeling positive and getting things done. Today I felt great! I actually went out in public and shopped (seldom do that unless high). I didn't get anxious...worry...get all crabby and irritated. I felt NORMAL. Like, normal as in the days before drugs. It felt wonderful, just positively beautiful. It's funny as I read back what I just wrote. Odd. But fabulous.

That's all I want. To go about day to day without dwelling on getting high and when my next "fix" will be. I sure hope this lasts because I truly want to be a normal human being again! Is that too much to ask :D


I remember this feeling after transitioning from methadone -> sub. It's quite liberating. It feels good to feel human again, as sub (at least compared to methadone) does let some of those natural emotions through. Enjoy it!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:38 am 
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tinydancer wrote:
Aww.. I feel for you. *hugs*

Here's the deal, quickly as I try to get out of work. Feel grateful that you aren't sick. That's worst case scenario, right? I know you were probably looking for that little buzz, like most of us are at one point, but you won't feel that unless you take too much. 8 mg is even too much in your case, in my opinion based-on-what-you-were-taking-non-medical-advice-kind-of-way. I think you are right smack in the middle of the addiction struggle. I'm not sure you are desperate enough to want/need change but I hope that you'll stick it out regardless. If you were able to go off methadone for 4 days with slight/ annoying wds.. that's a good thing. I hate to even suggest going on suboxone at all but if you feel you can't stay clean right now, sub may help. Or not, if you've already used it. It really all depends on one's state of being/ frame of mind. You need to really want this in order for it to really work. Otherwise, you're just trading one thing in for the next and chasing a buzz no matter how you can get it.




I just wanted to point out a cpl things from this post..

1st- the max dose of sub which would be 32mg is equivalent to 30-40mg of methadone.. thats straight from Dr. J himself.

2nd- the dose each individual person needs to be on is only based partly on the size of their previous DOC habit, it depends a whole lot on each individual persons body so really none of us can tell anyone if they are taking too much or too little.. someone with a 60mg oxy habit may need to be on 16mg of sub to be stable where as someone else could have a 300mg oxy habit and be able to maintain perfectly at 8mg.

3rd- suboxone is for people who cannot stop using their DOC no matter how much they try, it has nothing to do with how much they were using.. suboxone isnt just for people who had large habits, its for people who desperately need to get off their DOC and cant do it on their own without help so you should never say you "wouldnt suggest they going on suboxone at all"


We have to remember that addiction is basically a life or death situation, we need to get the correct info out there.. this is my 3rd go round with sub, when I first started my treatment I was using another forum and the people there were giving me very incorrect information and bc I listened to what they were telling me it cost me 2 relapses.. I just dont want that to happen to anyone else, im sorry if I came across rude or anything bc it definitely was not my intention.

Best Of Luck To All :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:00 pm 
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Hey BeautifulMess,

Welcome to the forum!!

I was curious about what kind of misinformation the other forum was giving you about Suboxone.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:16 pm 
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BeautifulMess wrote:
tinydancer wrote:
Aww.. I feel for you. *hugs*

Here's the deal, quickly as I try to get out of work. Feel grateful that you aren't sick. That's worst case scenario, right? I know you were probably looking for that little buzz, like most of us are at one point, but you won't feel that unless you take too much. 8 mg is even too much in your case, in my opinion based-on-what-you-were-taking-non-medical-advice-kind-of-way. I think you are right smack in the middle of the addiction struggle. I'm not sure you are desperate enough to want/need change but I hope that you'll stick it out regardless. If you were able to go off methadone for 4 days with slight/ annoying wds.. that's a good thing. I hate to even suggest going on suboxone at all but if you feel you can't stay clean right now, sub may help. Or not, if you've already used it. It really all depends on one's state of being/ frame of mind. You need to really want this in order for it to really work. Otherwise, you're just trading one thing in for the next and chasing a buzz no matter how you can get it.




I just wanted to point out a cpl things from this post..

1st- the max dose of sub which would be 32mg is equivalent to 30-40mg of methadone.. thats straight from Dr. J himself.

2nd- the dose each individual person needs to be on is only based partly on the size of their previous DOC habit, it depends a whole lot on each individual persons body so really none of us can tell anyone if they are taking too much or too little.. someone with a 60mg oxy habit may need to be on 16mg of sub to be stable where as someone else could have a 300mg oxy habit and be able to maintain perfectly at 8mg.

3rd- suboxone is for people who cannot stop using their DOC no matter how much they try, it has nothing to do with how much they were using.. suboxone isnt just for people who had large habits, its for people who desperately need to get off their DOC and cant do it on their own without help so you should never say you "wouldnt suggest they going on suboxone at all"


We have to remember that addiction is basically a life or death situation, we need to get the correct info out there.. this is my 3rd go round with sub, when I first started my treatment I was using another forum and the people there were giving me very incorrect information and bc I listened to what they were telling me it cost me 2 relapses.. I just dont want that to happen to anyone else, im sorry if I came across rude or anything bc it definitely was not my intention.

Best Of Luck To All :)


I see where you're coming from but I had reasons for answering the way I did.

Of course everyone is different and therefor will respond differently to medications despite what they were taking before. I never said there was a prerequisite for using suboxone but more often than not, if you're on a low dose of opiates you probably won't need a a very high maintenance dose. If you take the previous amount of opiates a person was using along with the symptoms they're having while taking subs, you can get a general idea if they may be on too much or too little. We're only offering advice based on our own experiences here, that's all we can do. Additionally, the reason I said that I may not even suggest sub is because I actually feel like suboxone is a great tool to get off of opiates but I don't think it works when one isn't ready. I also worry that if someone tries suboxone too many times before they are ready to quit, and learns how to use in between, etc.. then it may not work for that person when they really are ready. Suboxone just becomes another DOC or bridge in between relapses.

It's not for me to say who is ready or not, I was just trying to explain that there is more to successful suboxone maintenance than a momentary desire to quit. Especially when one is still looking to "feel good."


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:14 am 
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tinydancer wrote:
It's not for me to say who is ready or not, I was just trying to explain that there is more to successful suboxone maintenance than a momentary desire to quit. Especially when one is still looking to "feel good."




Well, ummm I tend to DISagree with TD on, well, alot of things, LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:
(that was sopposed to be funny, it's really hard to push my sarcasim thru the screen)

BUT I'm going to 1,000% AGREE here, with this statement.......


that's MY two cents.


BeautifulMess wrote.......
when I first started my treatment I was using another forum and the people there were giving me very incorrect information and bc I listened to what they were telling me it cost me 2 relapses.. I just dont want that to happen to anyone else, im sorry if I came across rude or anything bc it definitely was not my intention.


Im sorry you went through all of that....... that's really crappy.

I hope this forum wasn't the one? and it's fine to point out things you do NOT agree with, or even DO,
totally fine, as long as it's done in a respectful manner,
which IN MY Opinion, you did, so
no worries :wink:

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its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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