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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:55 pm 
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Wanted to also tell you to hang in there. I remember this part. Believe it or not, the hardest part is over and you will gradually acclimate to this medicine and feel better.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:02 am 
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Well, I took two more doses of 8 mg.....seems the more I take, the worse I feel. My legs and hips hurt so bad I couldn't stand it. I haven't eaten in two days, tried to eat a banana and it made me almost throw up after 2 bites. I tossed and turned for hours. It was 4 am and couldnt sleep, the pain in my legs was just unbearable, even after Xanax and 300 mg gabapentin. So, I took two 10 mg perocet and just prayed it would bring me some relief.
It did. I fell asleep and woke up a half hour ago pretty much painless. My lower back hurts a little, but otherwise I feel ok.

There was no way I could continue the way I was and go to work. If I had planned this better I'd have tried to persevere....but I can't lose my job, I have bills to pay. I don't know what I'm going to do now. I'm exhausted from the last 7 days of misery. I feel like I've been thru hell. I've got 2 percocets left and about 20-30 mg methadone. I don't really care right now that I set myself back. I tried, and I just couldn't do it.

I really appreciate everyone's help and support, but I agree with you all now, it's just too hard this way. I'm not strong enough for this. I need to either find a doctor that will put me on Percocet or another short acting opiate, or go back to the clinic and do the fucking taper. I think I'd rather take pills for a while, I just don't know how easy it will be to find a doctor who will prescribe them to me as soon as possible.

Thanks again everyone. I'm not giving up on suboxone, I just can't do it this way. Methadone kicks your ass, that's for sure. I guess this is what I deserve for staying on it s long.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:53 am 
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No you don't deserve any of this, no one does. I'm sorry you were in so much pain.I'll pm you when I get to work, keep your head up.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:47 am 
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Sorry to hear it! I know how bad it sucks, it's not an easy process, and to be honest, most people who come here for the switch don't make it. That's just the truth of the matter. I think I was lucky that when I did the switch in 2006, I was not actively on the internet like I am now. I had no idea what I was in for, I had not read other peoples stories, and I had no where to complain about or take stock of my symptoms. It was more of an old fashioned grin and bear it type thing, which worked in my favor. If I had to do it all over again, knowing what I know now, I'm not sure I would've been able to follow it through. I specifically remember being sick for a couple of weeks, but I was in the middle of a big life change and had to push through, there was just no other way around it. So in that sense, I was kind of forced to do it.

I sincerely hope that you are able to find a situation that works for you in the mean time, until you find out how or if you want to try again. I may have missed this somewhere but is there a reason that you cannot just stay on methadone for a while longer? Was it causing you issues?

Edit:
I also have to add that it is sad to see you turn around at this point when you've done so much of the hard work. At this point, it's just a matter of allowing your body to get used to the sub. It WILL take over. I know when you're stuck in the middle of it, it feels like forever, but it's really not. Big picture, it's a short amount of time for what it has to offer long term. I know you have work.. I'm a working professional too and have done two big detoxes (both mdone to suboxone, and getting off suboxone completely) while working stressful and "important" positions. It's possible to do, you just have to suck it up. And if you're wondering at all if I'm someone lying behind a screen name on the internet (because it certainly happens), I'm not. There are people on this forum that know me in real life. I'm not saying any of this to throw it in your face, just to let you know that it IS possible. It's just that none of it comes easy. It sucks bad. But it's worth it in the end. Anyway, there is my pep talk. I hope that you are able to absorb some of it.. any of it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:27 am 
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Someone please explain, I am completely lost here, How come the subs didn't bring Laffy the slightest relief?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:45 am 
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I thought I answered this already but here you go. Here is an excerpt I quickly pulled up explaining a partial agonist vs. full, in case you are unsure of the difference:

Quote:
PARTIAL AGONISTS
Partial agonists are drugs that bind primarily to endorphin opioid receptors and cause them to produce endorphins but to a much lesser extent than full agonists. Buprenorphine, Suboxone and Subutex are partial agonists. When the dosage of a full agonist is increased, the opioids will activate more receptors and create more endorphins. When the dosage of a partial agonist is increased, there is only a small increase, if any, in the production of endorphins.



Lafftery is going from a considerable dose of a full agonist (for 8 years) to a very small dose of a partial agonist. It actually makes perfect sense that this is happening, no? When I switched to sub I started on 24mgs and still had a shitty period of adjusting. She has taken at max, 4 or maybe 8 mgs. It's simply not enough to fill the void of subxone yet. It takes time for the new medicine to take over and for the brain to adapt to it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:45 pm 
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I think last night as of midnight, I'd taken about 26mg of the subutex with each dose making me feel ten times worse. By the middle of the night I just wanted to die. Feeling so bad really makes you not want to take more.

Tiny dancer I know what you are saying about toughing it up, but if you felt as bad as me, I really don't know how you managed. You didn't know what you were in for, maybe it's a little easier when you don't. I think I'd rather be dead than go through 2 weeks more - or even longer - of this hell. You are a stronger person than I am.

I left a message for my doctor, waiting for him to call me back. I also called the clinic, not the one I used before, this time I need to go to one closer To me since I'll need to go daily. I have to call back tomorrow, no one in the intake office today.

I've taken a few percocets since I woke up. All the really bad pain is gone, I just feel really weak and nauseous. I think I've lost at least 20 lbs, that's the only positive thing that has come out of the last 8 days of hell.

For anyone who wants to jump off a high dose of methadone and go onto subs, it CAN be done - there are people who've done it - but I don't think it can be done without a lot of pain. And for anyone who is thinking about going on methadone, don't do it unless you are ready for the hell of getting off it someday. This drug will kick your ass, no doubt. It certainly has kicked mine.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:25 pm 
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Day 9, in case anyone is interested in what I'm doing now. as of last night, I was still very weak, the smallest efforts making me long to just go back to bed. I'm also borderline nausea and sleeping badly. I called my doctor, and he told me to take two 8 mg subs at once, twice a day. Ugh. He still insists its the naloxone in suboxone that is what kicks the opiates off your receptors, and that all I needed was more milligrams. I just couldn't stomach taking any more, and besides, I'd already taken the short acting opiates that day. I'm going to see him tomorrow, will see if he has any other suggestions. I'm not counting on it!

Anyway, I'm going to try short acting opiates for 10 days or so, and see what happens. I've got enough to see if maybe I can taper off and just be done with all of this. I know it's going to suck - but at least the worst is over, and by that I mean the hell of stopping methadone. I'd be proud of that if I could say for sure I'll never go back to it. But I know I won't do it lightly....not after last week. And I've also been thinking, who knows how easy it will be for me to taper off of subs? I'm obviously not that strong, based on last week!

My state has this new thing where if you get a prescription for narcs, if you have any other prescriptions for narcs (if you are dr shopping) the pharmacy AND the doctor that prescribed them will be notified. And it doesn't matter if you use different pharmacies. So going back to trying to get different Drs to prescribe pills ain't happening anymore. Id have to get them from the street... And I just don't have the energy or desire for that game anymore.

I really want to thank everyone again for all your help, advice, and support!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:21 am 
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Hey Laffer,
Yes, I am still lurking out here. lol
I have a question,
How come your Dr. didn't induct you at his office?
The reason he said to take 16mgs is to fill all your receptors up. When you take bits and pieces, it isn't filling even half of you receptors up. My Dr. said the same thing. He prescribes 16mgs to all his patients in the beginning. 16 to 24 mgs fills 92 to 97 % of your receptors.
I am sorry you are having such a tough time, but I wanted you to know I am still here reading your posts.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:18 am 
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My doctor is a 90 bucks for 20 minutes, and you do all the work, kind of dr... But, to his credit, he does tell u to call him if you have any trouble.

Bottom line is, I suffered all those days, then started the subs on Saturday night....no pws, but each successive dose made me feel worse and worse pain, in my arms, legs, back. I think it's because there was just still too much methadone in me, even after all that time. Probably I could have continued with the induction, but there was no reward, nothing but more discomfort....and I was already emotionally spent, exhausted....and had to be at work the next day. I think the doctors who induct you themselves are more responsible. And likely a responsible doctor would not have given me a script knowing I planned to jump off at 85 mg.

I just can't believe I'm not taking methadone everyday anymore. That's one good thing that came out of this. I never would have attempted to CT off of it if I hadn't thought subs/relief would be there at the end. So even though it didn't end as planned, hard part's over.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:09 pm 
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I wish my Dr. only charged 90 bucks! I pay 350.00 a month.
Like I said before, I am sorry you have had so much trouble. But getting off Methadone is a good thing. It is an old drug and has served it use, but there are better drugs out there now like Suboxone.
You really need to give Suboxone another try later on down the road. It would be the perfect drug for addicts if you only caught some kind of a head change. lol I am only kidding.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:23 pm 
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Well, I pay 90 every other week, so it's $180 a month. I'm not using my insurance, though, so if you add the cost of the subs, it may wind up 3x that.

I may have to give subs another try, most likely I will. We'll see. Today is day 10, and I'm still weak, low energy, not hungry at all, don't want to do anything....and that is with a shorter acting opiate in my system...so I think I'm still in methadone WD. God only knows how long it will take me to feel normal again! Everything I do requires a major effort, even just having a conversation with someone. It's crazy.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:35 pm 
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"I called my doctor, and he told me to take two 8 mg subs at once, twice a day. Ugh. He still insists its the naloxone in suboxone that is what kicks the opiates off your receptors, and that all I needed was more milligrams."

You probably know better, but for the benefit of anyone else reading this thread, the Naloxone in Suboxone is NOT absorbed by your body in any relevant amounts if you take the medicine as directed (sublingually). Most of it just passes through your body and is eliminated. It is put in Suboxone to deter abuse by dissolving and injecting. Theoretically, if it's injected, then the Naloxone would work to clear your receptors. So your doctor's theory that Naloxone is clearing your receptors in incorrect.

Thanks,
Morphing


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:48 pm 
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I know, I know. It's unnerving that he doesn't know this... That's why he gave me a script for subutex, saying I could take it early in WD with no worries of PWs.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:08 am 
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Day 15 off methadone. Even though I am on a shorter acting opiate now, some of the WD symptoms persist. I can deal with the occasional cold sweats, and the not being able to sleep well really sucks....but it's the weakness and the extremely low energy that's killing me. I have to rest after every little thing I do.

Mentally I feel alright. It's an effort to be around other humans, but I've always been like that. I have been thinking a lot about the past and people in my life, mistakes I've made, how I put drugs before everything - the men who've cared about me, having a family, all the " normal" stuff everyone else has.
And I have been thinking about getting high. Almost constantly. I live not too far from the ocean, and I came up with this excuse in my head Friday morning to drive to this beach town I lived in when I was using and look at a few places for rent for the winter (sept to May- best time to be near the ocean) but the whole time I knew in the back of my head that I was going to go 3 miles out of my way and drive by where this guy I used with lived. And I did. His family has owned a seafood restaurant since the 1960s..and I guess lucky for me, it was closed, they never reopened after damage from Hurricane Sandy. Was I disappointed or relieved? I'm not sure yet. He probably still lives in the area, but I have no idea where...with a little effort, I could find him....but if I do, and he is still using...well, I really don't have things under control, do I?

Anyway, went to an NA meeting last night. Not really all that inspiring for me, and I'm not clean, and won't be even on subs, so I don't fit into their "abstinence from everything" criteria. But, it was a distraction. And I'll take any distraction right now to get my mind off everything that's been going on these past few weeks.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:48 am 
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Oh. My. God. First night back at work and I am in agony. I can't believe I made it through the night. My whole body aches, my arms and legs feel like they weigh 500 lbs each....just moving my body, or an arm or leg requires so much effort. Even writing is exhausting. I think I'd rather have had a few more days of being really sick than have to feel like this for god knows how much longer. It's not something that is improving each day - every day is bad.

I can't wait to start my next subs induction - I'm praying that it will take away this awful awful AWFUL feeling of exhaustion....because I can't imagine feeling like this for even one more day.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:04 am 
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Laffertyk,

So when is your induction? I guess you've been on Subs before? You will feel so much better once you start and then you can begin working on the root problems that are causing you difficulties. NA can be almost cultish in their total abstinence approach. I equate Suboxone to the insulin I also take to maintain my health. Just another medication to treat some deficiency in my body.

Keep us posted.

Thanks,
Morphing


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:57 pm 
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Morphing, if you read back in this thread, about 2weeks ago I jumped cold turkey from 85mg methadone...think it was day 7 that I tried to start subs, but after 24 hrs of steadily increasing doses, I was in agony...no stomach issues....just intense pain, especially in my lower body. Finally I couldn't take it any more and took some percocets I had, then found a doctor to prescribe Vicodin. Methadone is a BITCH. I'm STILL feeling WD symptoms, even though the Vicodin makes most of them at least tolerable. If it weren't for this horrible physical exhaustion, I think I'd be okay. Mentally I feel pretty much alright, I think, but physically, it takes everything I have just to move one arm or leg. It's crazy, but from what I hear, this is one of the long term side effects of coming off a long acting drug like methadone, and the 8 years I was on it make it harder as well. It's so hot where I live right now, that is making it even harder. I hate the heat.

I do have some positive things going on....I look great. I weighed between 100 and 110 when I went on methadone. Probably I was too skinny then, using and all, I didn't eat much - but methadone turned me into a raving sugar junkie. I could eat a whole box of Cocoa Puffs in one sitting. And I did. Often. 2 weeks ago when I took my last dose, I weighed about 160. I am now down to 137. Probably because I have a small frame, I should weigh somewhere between 130 -135, taking into account that I am on the busty side and boobs weigh a lot. Either way - I was wanting to lose weight - so at least something good has come out of all this torture!

I have about 30 Vicodin left. I'm off this weekend. Going to try to induct again. I hear it's much easier to go from a weak short acting opiate like Vicodin 5/300... If I don't do it this weekend, it will be 2 weeks before I have 2 days in a row off again, and for sure I don't have enough Vicodin to hold me out till then. So it's going to have to be this weekend. I may take my last dose of Vicodin on Thursday.
I'm just hoping the sub will take care of this physical exhaustion.

As for NA, I've no desire to join the cult. I used to go to meetings years ago, and all anyone talked about was when where how what they used. I'd leave the meetings wanting more than ever to get ripped. The meeting I went to the other night, it seems they focus more on life after drugs and how great it is. Great. Ha. I have been using drugs since I was 14 years old. I love drugs, even after all the ways they have fucked up my life. Even right now, I'd do any drug put in front of me....well, maybe not methamphetamine....but I've never really tried to stop, never really wanted to.....methadone was just a substitute drug, and while it gave me a more stable life, we all know it's a only a wonderful "relationship" if you keep taking it. I've thought about subs, and trying to taper off of it once I go on....but I don't know what I'm going to do. I may have fucked up my brain beyond repair and might have to stay on it for good. And the main issue there is I am required to have a state liscense for my job - if they pop me with a drug test, or the state somehow looks into prescriptions I get, I would be given two choices: go to rehab to be completely clean, or lose my job. Of course, I could sue under the Americans with disabilities act, like this nurse in PA did when the state revoked her liscense because she was on methadone....but that was in 2010 and the case is still not worked out, and in the meantime, this nurse is working a minimum wage job.

So yeah, lotsa worries. Going to do some laundry....


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:16 pm 
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Hey Lafferty, I just want you to know that I feel for you. I've been following your story this whole time, but I haven't been able to give much advice. I've never been through this bitch of a process! I hope that your induction on sub works much better this weekend than the last time you tried. The one silver lining, your weight, at least makes clothes shopping fun. But you probably don't even feel like shopping at this point.

I know that what you're doing is hard, but I do believe you'll make it! There are lots of people on the forum reading your thread and pulling for you. Don't feel alone. Keep on posting!

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:59 pm 
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Thanks Amy. Hopefully my experience will help other ppl on methadone-and show them the consequences of trying to make the switch from a high dose. I believe it can be done... But not without a lot of pain. I'm happy methadone is behind me, I didn't realize how numb and isolated I was on that shit. Now that I'm off, I feel so different, and am wanting to do all the things I had stopped doing, like being around people, listening to music... Little things that I used to do and stopped. I'm also very emotional, but it doesn't feel bad. I am not as tired today, eithet. I'll probably have good and bad days.....well thanks, Amy, for your encouragement. Hopefully for me the hardest part is over!


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