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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:47 pm 
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I just sometimes feel like a fake. I counsel people about addiction and have never fully disclosed that I am an addict too! Well, I have said that my addiction is food! But, I hide the fact that I take suboxone. My husband is so supportive and feels that it is no one else's business! But I can't help but feel guilty. Thanks for listening, again!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:27 am 
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It really isn't anyone's business, your husband is right. And personally, I've had it up to here with "addiction" counsellors who may have taken some classes, read some books...but know nothing about it. I think it should be a requirement that you be an addict to counsel other addicts. I know I'd be more likely to listen to and take seriously someone who's been there.

I wish we lived in a world where we could be more open about addiction, but we don't. Probably we make it worse by keeping quiet, but what can you do? People have their ideas about who and what we are, and if we take drugs, well, you know what they think. I know how you feel, keeping it all to yourself, but that's a necessity most of the time.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:35 am 
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I've never met a helpful therapist. You have to reach a certain level with someone to get deep enough to see where the addictions comes from. most of the drug counselors I've met were on an ego trip with no concern about me or anyone. They were there for themselves and the paycheck.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:23 am 
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Yeah, I haven't liked too many of the addiction counsellors I've dealt with. Especially at the methadone clinic. They spend a whole 5 minutes with you and call that counseling. I swear, those places would have drive through window service if the state didn't require all the extra BS. I don't like methadone clinic nurses either, but that's another story.

Saw my subs dr yesterday, told him I was having some trouble sleeping....he said to just take the subs in the morning. Like if I'm taking 4 mg a day, to just take it all at once, then nothing later in the day. That sound right to you guys? It doesn't to me. I think I've forgotten more about drugs than this guy will ever know. He's nice, though.

Also, do you all take yours at the same time everyday? I really haven't been doing that.

Other than the insomnia, no other side effects to report. Still feeling pretty good.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:08 pm 
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When treatment for addiction useing Buprenorphine it is always best to do once aday dosing. Why?, because we are trying to stop the habit of reaching for something .
To break or extinguish the need to feel somdthing or the med. For many this isnt done. Mostly because of the higher doses . (16mgs or more).And there are other reasons too.
Lower doses may be easier. Plus your system will stablized if your dose is taken at the sametime each day. Mornings are best.
Taking bupe later in the afternoon or in the evening can and does keep people awake at night. It did me in the begining. Back then i was splitting up 12 mgs 3 times a day then would lie in bed till 3 am..awake..Your doctor may know more than you think.

So ya, same time each day, and all at once. Your blood levels of bupe should keep you stable for the 24 hour period.

Give it a try and hopefully you ll also get better sleep...Dr Junig writes about this in the Talkzone too....

Razor57


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:23 pm 
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Hey Laff,

Like razor said, I too take mine at the same time every day once a day. Most of the time it's within an hr or so after I wake up. That'll definitely hold u til u take ur dose again the next day. I think most doctors (including mine) want u to dose once a day unless ur also taking it for pain management along with addiction maintenance. You'll get used to it and it'll be just another routine thing for ya.

Good to hear ur doing a lot better these days.

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Jennifer


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:48 pm 
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I'm so sorry for bad experiences with counselors, psychs, nurses, anyone of them is there to help and should never make anyone feel less than! Drives me out of my mind to hear that people don't treat others with compassion especially those paid to do so! I have always treated my clients as I would want to be treated! Please don't give up! If you really want someone to talk to, keep shopping until you find a good fit! I am in AA, NA and DR meetings all the time due to my work. I work the steps because I think they are a good way to deal with addiction but only my husband knows. I have some guilt about it...sort of feel dishonest but when I think about the only real person who I'm not being completely honest with is myself! There are all kinds of social workers and counselors in recovery so I could tell people but don't. Thank you so much for listening!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:24 pm 
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I 've read about a lot of people dosing 2 or 3x a day...but maybe that's people just getting started and trying to figure out how much they need. I don't trust everything my dr says, he still goes on about naloxone being the cause of PWs, not the Bupenorphine. To me, that is basic information about this stuff, and it's dangerous for him not to know that. If not for this forum, I would have followed his advice and taken SUbutex the very day after I took my last methadone dose. That would have been pretty ugly. I mentioned to him later that I "thought" he might be wrong about this, gotta be careful with doctors and their egos, hoping maybe he'd take the hint and look into it, but he didn't. Anyway, he wants me to take 4 mg a day, all at once, and the 2x I took 4 all at once, I didn't feel so hot. That was in the first few days though, so maybe I'll try the 4 mg tomorrow in the morning....or maybe at noon since I work the late shift, and see how it holds me over.

Michelle, I have more than once seen and heard both the counsellors and especially a few of the nurses talking about the patients at the clinic in derogatory ways, even making fun of them, when they think no one is listening. I pay attention to everything going on around me at the clinic, even if I've got my nose in a book or whatever, and I guess they assume I'm just another dumb junkie, sitting there half stoned. Not saying ALL nurses and counsellors do this, but there are quite a few at the clinic I went to.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:25 am 
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I believe you Laff. I have seen this kind of behavior in my own office! I have reported it to supervisors but not much gets done about it. I am so sorry you have had to deal with it! The only way for me to look at it with peace of mind is to feel sorry for them. If they have nothing better to do than be mean...well, you know the saying...God don't like ugly!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:56 am 
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Michelle,
I don't believe I have had the opportunity of chatting w you but quick background on myself, I have taken Methadone for years, came on this website, got all the info and support in the world to get off and induct and when the time came I failed terribly. I let it get me down for a while but after seeing what Laffer has accomplished and how far she has come I have decided to get back on the ball. I am going on vaca at then end of the month but when I get back I plan on starting the process again.

Reason for my post...just like any profession you have good and bad but I have been fortunate enough to have a great counselor at the clinic ( surprising I know) and a phenomenal psychiatrist on the private sector who has been by my side for years. Unfortunately none of them have any personal experience w addiction so I cant imagine what all you have to offer having that under your belt. I just wanted you to know people do have good experiences as well and you are making a difference. That's it.

Blue


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:20 am 
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Blue, remember, I tried taking subs a week after my last methadone dose...and failed terribly as well. I maybe could have kept taking it ....ride it out, as some have said...but it put me in so much muscle pain, there was just no way I could keep going with it. The more I took, the worse I felt. When I called the dr, he said to take two 8 mg pills at once. I guess it was like a fight between the bupenorphine and the methadone...and the methadone was winning. Which kind of shocks me, cause now that I'm on subs, I realize just how strong it is. I didn't believe that when I heard people say it, but it's true. At that point in my WD, though, it was NOT stronger than the methadone. I just needed more time.

You are going to have an easier time of it, though.

Michelle, I think a lot of people working with addicts look down on them. They are just ignorant. I don't take it personally. I've been in therapy a few times, way before the clinic, and it just didn't do anything for me - whether I liked the therapist or not. I know why I'm so fucked up, and I know what I need to do to fix it. At this point though, I may have done too much chemical damage to myself to fix it without meds. My sub dr thinks I have ADHD....I don't know, does anyone reading my posts get that impression?? My son was diagnosed with it, and one of my brothers, but I never thought I fit the criteria. I thought I was more of a borderline personality disorder type. Anyway, the dr offered, for a lot more money, of course, to get me on some other meds after we treat my "opioid dependence issues" I don't know. The last time I saw a real shrink, many years ago, he kept trying to tell me I wanted to have sex with him. For example, if it was hot in his office, and I did that thing where you pull on your shirt a few times to circulate air under it, he said I was trying to show him my body. At first I thought it was funny, but I got tired real fast of paying 90 bucks an hour to hear shit like that. So yeah, my experiences with these kinds of things have not been good!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:03 pm 
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He must have thought you were trying to "stiff" him out of the 90 bucks. LMAO
Sorry, couldn't help myself, it struck me funny! Ahahahaha


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:06 pm 
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Thank you Blue! I just don't see myself as being any different no matter what side of the desk I am on! Borderline personality disorder? Why do you say that? It is one of the most difficult Dxs to work with. People usually spend all their time pushing people away by engaging in bad or very needy behavior and then when you say I have had enough, will do anything and I mean anything to get you back. My Mom has BP and life with her has been...well...not easy! Laff, I am so sorry about that crazy dr.! You need to feel safe and he sure was not providing you with that! Thank you all for listening and being here! I can not put into words how important my connections here are to me!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:08 pm 
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Oh my gosh!I am so sorry for mixing Blue and Laff up in my response! Please forgive me!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:12 am 
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Just because you fall in a certain category, because you have a cluster of symptoms doesn't necessarily mean that it's a life-long illness. Doctors like to label people, be it an 'addict' or 'adhd' . All of this comes down to thinking and thought patterns developed over the years: mindfulness and being mindful in my opinion is key to getting over anxiety disorders permanently :o


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:10 am 
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Michelle F. wrote:
It is one of the most difficult Dxs to work with. People usually spend all their time pushing people away by engaging in bad or very needy behavior and then when you say I have had enough, will do anything and I mean anything to get you back.


Add to that extreme emotional instability, self destructive behavior, substance abuse...and well, there you have it. That's me. The same shrink that thought I wanted to have sex with him tentatively Diagnosed me with BP...but I didn't stay with him long enough to get a definite DX. And I do fit the criteria, most of it. As long as I keep my distance from people, though, it's not so obvious. And it usually only becomes really obvious in relationships with me. when I do decide to get involved with someone, I look around very carefully, and as soon as I spot someone more fucked up than me, I make my move. If they have their own issues, they are not as likely to notice mine. And really, I've never had a shortage of men in my life. Needy psychotic women are just what some guys want, whether they realize it or not.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:22 am 
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Aww Laff, you are human just like the rest of us! You deserve to be happy! You are so right when you say that there are a lit of men out there who like needy women! I guess it feeds their natural instinct to be protective. Well it sounds like you know what your "stuff" is and that is half the battle. Have a wonderful Sunday!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:45 am 
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Dark2light wrote:
Just because you fall in a certain category, because you have a cluster of symptoms doesn't necessarily mean that it's a life-long illness. Doctors like to label people, be it an 'addict' or 'adhd' . All of this comes down to thinking and thought patterns developed over the years: mindfulness and being mindful in my opinion is key to getting over anxiety disorders permanently :o


I agree, I really do. Having a child that was dx with so many things by the time he was in grade school, I developed an even stronger distaste for people in the mental health field than I already had from my own experiences. By the time he was 12 they had me giving him all this medication, and he wasn't even himself anymore. Yeah, he was bouncing off the walls without the meds - up all night, into everything, trouble with lteachers etc etc. He had me running from the day he was born. And I resented it, because I just wanted some peace and quiet to, you know, screw up my own life. So I went along with what the doctors said. But eventually, I'd had enough. I wanted him to be himself, even if he was hard to handle. We eventually stopped all the medication...And you know what? He turned out ok. Even with me as a mother, haha. my family was a great help, especially my brothers, but truth is, some kids just have more "energy" than others. (to put it mildly in mine's case.) This all starts with lazy teachers who don't want to deal with kids who are different, they want them all to be the same. I understand that kids like mine can be disruptive - but fucking labeling and drugging them is not the answer.

As for me, I really don't take all the labels put on me so seriously. Just another reason for doctors and pharmaceutical companies to make a buck. People are too complicated for labels. I'm not normal, that's for sure, but I have just as many good qualities as I do bad. I'm also an artist, which is a good excuse for lots of subnormal behavior. As for meditation, I believe in it, and have seen what it can do even with the minor amounts I've managed practicing yoga..and I believe we have more control than we give ourselves credit for. I'm just not one for self control, not right now anyway.

By the way, I have a slight hangover. I'm a light weight with alcohol, it's not my preferred drug....and I couldn't even stand the smell of alcohol when I was on methadone. I've been wondering if I'd feel the same on subs, because I missed having a few drinks now and then. So last nite after work I had one drink with this guy I've been seeing.,..I didn't see him make the drink, but knowing him he put in more vodka than was necessary, and it was a really big glass. Like a big beer mug size. It was good, it didn't make me sick...so I guess I can drink a little now and then on subs.

Do you guys just skip over my long rambling posts?? I probably would....

Oh, and the past two days I have been taking just the 4 mg in the morning, well, at around noon, but that's my morning. So far so good..though I had a rough night at work last night and wanted to take more...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:49 am 
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Michelle F. wrote:
Oh my gosh!I am so sorry for mixing Blue and Laff up in my response! Please forgive me!

Ha ha, lots of ppl mixed us up earlier in this thread. Or they though I was male and he was female (not so good for you, Blue!) or that we were the same person. No worries, it's all good!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:04 pm 
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Laff...skip over! Are you kidding me..I read every word! I sometimes wish we could do like a conference call because I get tired of typing and have so much more to say and because I would like a dialog so questions could be answered immediately! I have a big problem being patient! lol About your son, my sister went through it all with my nephew who is now the most amazing 26 yr old. But he too was diagnosed at a very easy age. First it was tourettes which was terrifying then it went to a tick disorder and ADD then it changed again. All this with the labels damaged his self estem. He turned to drugs and got in all kinds of trouble. Thank God he went to rehab got clean and has been doing well for the past 5 years! Well in between postings I managed to go for a swim. Now onto some house cleaning. Enjoy the rest of your afternoon!


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