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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:06 am 
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Dark2light wrote:
Someday your post will read, methadone to subutex to suboxone to Meditation


What makes you think that? I have tried meditation, but I'm too easily distracted. Sounds good, though.

Today was kinda weird, not as blissful as last night. I took 4 mg when I got up at around 9:30pm. Felt fine until around 4 pm, when I started again with the suddenly starting to sweat, only this time I also felt lightheaded, nausea, and kind of weak. I thought maybe it was time to take more subs, so I took 2 mg, and in about an hour I felt ok again. I didn't take any more tonight because I felt ok. The sick feeling reminded me of back when I first took percocets, when I didn't have much tolerance, sometimes I'd take too many and feel that way, sort of like I was going to pass out. Could it be that the 4 mg I took was too much? Should I stick with small doses, like I did last night? It's not like I have to match 85mg of methadone now, because my tolerance has to have gone way down in the past 4 weeks. I really don't know much about the best way to dose myself. How far apart between doses is best, or instead of 4 mg twice daily, should I do 2 mg 4x daily? I guess this is what you all mean about stabilizing on this stuff. Is there a standard way to do it, or is it different for everyone? I've read more than once that smaller doses work better..


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:01 pm 
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Laffer,
That Suboxone is kicking the remaining Perks and Methadone off your receptors! lol
You have a "little war" going off in your head!
Just use your common sense on how you feel. This stuff is strong and it is like nothing else.
What it's doing is building up and filling receptors. You were cleaner than you thought, so you should probably just take 1 or 2 mgs at a time. Everyone one is different. I take 4 or 6mgs a day. about 2 mgs at a time I guess. I am perfectly happy with that amount. Other people take more and other people take less. It just takes time to adjust. You will be fine. You have to figure out if you are "WDing" or are you "over medicated"? lol


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:17 am 
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God, I am so screwed up I don't know if I'm in WD or over medicated? I'd say under medicated, but then I seem to feel better on a lower dose, so who knows. Anyway, today was better. And even at its worst, I feel better than I have the past few weeks, that's for sure. Today I only took 4 mg, 2 mg at a time. 2 in the morning, then 2 around 5pm. Work was a breeze. I'm still having a horrible time trying to sleep, though. Was wide awake last night, finally slept for 2 hrs starting at around 8am. Was up all night drawing. Surprisingly, I don't feel like I only got 2 hrs of sleep, I feel pretty good. Going to go shopping in the morning, whether I sleep or not...

I don't think I need more than the 4 mg daily right now....but tomorrow I might try doing the 8 mg, just to see how it makes me feel. I have 19.25 eight mg Subutex pills left...plus another script for 5 pills. Then I think on my next visit, I'm gonna get a script for suboxone. So, looks like I'm going to have lots of extra medication, I'll never use 24.25 eight mg pills by the time I get my next script. That will be good, I'd like to have the extras for insurance in case my Dr disappears on me...or I find a cheaper Dr. It kind of bugs me that going on this med is so expensive.

I guess I'll just continue to experiment and see what works best for me.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:47 pm 
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Laffer,
Here's a link to a site that might help with what symptoms you are having. Just something I run onto. Thought it might help,
Happy


http://www.nationaldrugstrategy.gov.au/ ... upren5.pdf


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:54 pm 
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Good read there brother, hopefully I'll need that here shortly.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:28 pm 
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Hey Laff,
Your not in wd and may not even under medicated. It hasnt been very loug as of yet so the key here imo is Stablizing on a dose.
Id stick with the 4mgs for the next week. If any cravings come, maybe a dosage change of a mg or two. What your telling us here is what many go though in the begining. Extra energy, wake nights. Try taking that second dose earlier in the day instead of 5pm..maybe 8am, then 2pm?.

I cant know your schedule, but hours before bedtime is best for good sleep..

Sounds like your doing well, just try to get stable for some time . You can adjust later if need be..

You made it, and thats the important thing here....

Razor


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:52 pm 
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I don't think I have any cravings, in a real sense of the word. I always think about getting high, but I don't feel driven to do so. Besides, like with methadone, there would be no point now.

The last 2 nights I was able to get 4-5 hrs sleep, though not till after the sun started coming up. The night before that, I don't think I slept at all. I just laid there in a sort of half sleep, and remember seeing every hour pass...well, whether I sleep or not, I'm laying in bed and my body is getting some sort of rest. I'll try dosing earlier and see if that helps. Yesterday I was going to do the 8mg like my Dr recommends...but if I feel ok as is. Going to stick with the 4 mg a day like you all are saying, give it some time, see how it works. I haven't had any feelings of being sick today or yesterday, so I think this lower dose is going to hold me for now.

You'd think with all this extra energy and the sleeplessness that I'd clean up this mess I've been living in over the past month. I've barely done anything that resembles housework in weeks.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:48 pm 
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Did you get that house cleaned yet?
I could care less if you are sick or not.
Clean that "yard sale" up!
Happy


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:46 am 
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Nope. Sink is full of dishes, clothes strewn everywhere, mail piled up...haven't done a damn thing. And don't really care. Right now I only put my energy into work, or doing something enjoyable!

And I'm not sick - been feeling good. No side effects, not really high, just normal. Still not sleeping much, though. I have some Xanax - are the warnings about no benzos with subs the same as the warnings about no benzos with methadone? Same dangers? If so, I can take them, took them to help me sleep from time to time with methadone, with no problems...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:27 pm 
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I started to get my energy back around 3 months off sub. I felt 90% at 6 months

I hope you don't mind me asking, I'm just curious..

Have you come to terms with why you began pills in the first place??

In my case I used pills to feel normal without anxiety or depression. I just wanted to feel normal. I'm just curious is all 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:35 pm 
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Bottom line,
I used pain killers because of all the "shitty" things that were happening in my life. It helped all of them.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:39 pm 
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I just loved doing drugs. But, I was never "addicted" until opiates. If I took them sober, it was like with you - they made me feel good. Not high in the sense that I wanted to take a few percs and pass out, like most people - no, they gave me energy, and focus, and interest in life. So, I imagine they were replacing some brain chemicals I was short on.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:51 pm 
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Me too. Pills took me out of my head and put me in the moment. I chased it for years and eventually wound up on suboxone and slowly lost that mindset. Honestly, every morning I meditate for ten minutes, and when I'm out of it I'm in the moment all day. I feel like I'm out of my head, it's crazy I never knew about this before pills. 8)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:05 am 
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I guess one could say these drugs put you in the moment...but they also give me energy, incentive, interest in life. The only meditation I've ever done has been with or during yoga - and I've never gotten the effect that you, and what I've heard others, describe. Besides drugs, the only other thing that puts me in the moment is sex.

As for the energy issues when coming off of suboxone, not sure if you read any of my posts here, but I'm not talking about just feeling tired. I literally could not walk 10 feet without my heart rate going up to 120 and having to stop to rest. I've never experienced anything like it in my life. I think I'd kill myself if I had to live like that for any extended period of time. I was hoping it was just a side effect of quitting methadone CT the way I did, and that it would end any day....but other ppl told me that it was a typical side effect of stopping any opiate w/ a long half life ( methadone, suboxozone) and that it could last for 6 mo to a year. Is this how you felt? If it were not for this one symptom, I may not have gone on subs...but it was so brutal, I just couldn't stand another minute. And the irony of it is, I may have to go through it again anyway, when I get off of subs


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:16 am 
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Hi Laff, I too enjoyed the pills to just enjoy life. I never wanted to be high or out of control. Since I had gastric bypass surgery I could not drink. So I would take a half tab of vic and it would make me feel like I had one or two glasses of wine. The problem started when the half tab of vic was not giving that feeling and I needed a little more. My little habit was getting very expensive. My dr. wrote me a script tramadol which gave me the same little boost in mood that I loved. Tramadol was easy to get as it is a synthetic opiate and the thought about trams is that you did not get a high from them but I sure did! Last August they changed the class of drug which made them very difficult to get. That's how I started suboxone. It was so easy for me. I initially thought I would wean myself off within a year. Next month is a year and can't see myself being off of them right now. I have SO much guilt about being on suboxone. I know that it is really helping me not only for addiction but for pain and this depression that came along with menopause. Only my husband and one close friend know. I am not a secrets kind of person...my life is pretty much an open book! Thanks for listening!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:10 am 
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Aww, Michelle, I know how you feel. I've gone YEARS with nobody knowing, not even people I was close to. I don't care what is said today about addiction being a disease, the stigma is the same as it has always been, and most people don't understand. Sometimes, though, we add to the problem by being quiet about it. I know that if I were to admit my addiction to a lot of people that knew me today, they would be floored - and maybe it would change their idea of what an addict is, because we could be anyone.

Tramadol does nothing for me...and yes, last year it became considered a more serious narcotic, due to a lot of people becoming addicted to it.

I feel a lot better about being on subs than on methadone....but, once again, I've just traded one drug for another, and this one will have to be dealt with sooner or later too, meaning WD. But, this time I'll do it in a more sane way. Maybe.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:28 am 
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Oh Laffer, you asked about taking Benzos with Subs, You really shouldn't. They are both CNS depressants. I am not a big fan of Benzos.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:20 pm 
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As he said, yes, benzo withdrawal is 100 time worst than suboxone. I'm as bad now sixteen months off of benzos as I was a month off of benzos. The healing or withdrawal just hasn't improved . I randomly will go a week without being able to sleep, with night sweats and adrenal issues. Along with it comes dizziness and confusion. Benzos should be illegal


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:17 pm 
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I used to mix benzos with alcohol many years ago, nothing like that combo to block out the world. Sometimes, if I was really depressed or mad at someone or something, I'd get a script or get them wherever, and spend a week or so in a fog. But I never took them regularly enough to get a habit or WD from them. Even now, I may always have a few on hand, but only take them occasionally. Took one from time to time to sleep when I was on methadone, had no problems. I understand why one shouldn't take them, though. Guess I used them for emergencies only.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:56 am 
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I think I'm pretty much ok on this stuff now. Taking 2 to 5 mg a day. Usually just 4 mg.....but, if I am having a rough day, or don't feel right, I'll take more. Probably just my conditioning as an addict, to take something to make me feel better. But mostly, the 4 mg is enough. Which is great, cause I feel pretty good, sorta like I did on methadone but a lot less dull. I'm also feeling needy, vulnerable, kind of raw emotionally, and while those feelings are uncomfortable, I would rather have them than not. So it seems I'm safe from this drug burying my emotions like methadone did. I think I mentioned before that I am suddenly much more interested in other human beings again....and it's funny, because some of these people have known me for a few years, and are used to me being friendly, but sort of cut off too, like I'd only go so far. I can see in their faces that they know something is different with me, but they just can't figure out what. Very positive responses, though. It's all good.

My appetite has returned, but not for the sugar, so I'm jus trying to eat healthy, good food. Lots of salad, rice, Thai and Indian food (yum!) and I'm drinking tons of water. Oh, and last night, without taking anything, I was able to sleep about 5 hours. Falling asleep is the hard part, but once I'm out, I'm out. Still haven't cleaned my house, but I'll get around to it.

No side effects I've noticed other than the trouble sleeping. So yeah, guess it's going ok!


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