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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:02 pm 
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hi my name is Joe and I have been on Methadone (80mg) for the past 6-7 months. I have been an opiate addict for years however, and was on Suboxone once before...it really transformed my life and the person I was and gave me another chance. One that I was not so greatful for at the time, and could not clearly see. However, I have done a bit of growing up since then and I am GENUINELY ready to stop using at all costs now.

I knew that I could not take Suboxone and Methadone together, and due to life complication issues, could no longer afford the transportation and the time consumption of going to the methadone clinic every day...plus I know how bad the withdrawal (WD) can be and how long it lasts and I simply do not want to be left with that.

I did AS MUCH READING AS I COULD in the days past on the subject and really could find no genuine answer on when it would be "safe" for me to begin Suboxone induction coming from the Methadone.

I did not tell my suboxone dr. about the methadone clinic, (because I did not want that paper trail, plus I was told he would possibly refuse to give me suboxone unless I tapered down to at least 30-50mg a day, however I did not have the time to do this) so I cannot call or ask him about these questions so I REALLY hope someone can come through for me.

I went home to my parents after my last methadone dose of 80mg on Thursday July 3rd at 8:00 a.m. I knew I would need to give myself at least 3-4 days because I was not able to taper down and I know about the long half-life of methadone. So I got a couple 100 mg MScontin's to take during my "detox" as well as some benzo's to take to help me sleep. Well, I had to go to work the next day (which was today), and my father (who is a pharmacist) said I should try to go ahead and take 2 mg's at a time and let my body get used to the Suboxone while I am at home rather than trying to do this at work. I had taken 1 100mg MsContin earlier that day (like around 12:00 noon), but never really got any relief from it and since I was feeling enough in withdrawal (I filled out a COWS spreadsheet), I figured this would be harmless to try. and it was for the most part.

I took 2 mg's waited about an hour....didn't feel any different whatsoever, so I took another 2 mg's and still felt the same. Popped 2 1mg Xanax and went to bed. Didn't get much good sleep, woke up very early for work this a.m. (5:00 a.m.) and felt absolutely horrible. I immediately did what I did before when I was on Sub, I immediately took 4 mg's as soon as i got out of bed. On an hour long drive to work, the same thing happened and I didn't feel any better or worse really and I was starting to get annoyed so I took the other 4 mg.

About 30-40 minutes later I was stacking bags of Ice out of a freezer onto a pallet and was sweating PROFUSELY and my stomach began running off...I just kept working and assumed this was just normal reaction to the drug itsself. My boss came around the corner and saw sweat all over me and asked if I was okay and I responded "No sir...I don't think so" and just quickly explained to him that I was in the process of switching medications so he sent me home.

For about an hour I was in EXTREME agony. It was definately Precipitated Withdrawals, because I have never felt that bad in my entire life, nor had withdrawal symptoms so terrible. My question was, Since I had already taken the sub the night before, and that day and it threw me into PW (precipitated withdrawals), how long do I wait after the PW until it is safe for me to take more suboxone? also, do you think it was the MScontin that caused it (since it hadn't even been 24 hours since I had taken it) or the high dose of methadone I was on still lingering in my system, or a combination of the 2?

Basically, I just want to feel better as soon as possible and I realize that this will take time. When I got on sub before I had been taking 20mg of methadone a day for about a week right up until my dr appt. and had even taken 20mg the night before and when I took that first 8mg sub it was like a burst of heaven through my body. words cannot express the relief I felt.

So, from what I understand (from what happens with the opiod receptors in my brain and the other opiates being yanked off by the suboxone and replaced, but pumping less dope into my receptors) of Precipitated Withdrawal, it would seem that this is only possible to happen ONE TIME, unless of course I use another opiod or methadone before trying to take more sub again which I am NOT doing. Am I right in this assumption? that PW can only occur once if you are continuing to only take the Suboxone and no other opiates?

I just took another 2 mg since it had been over 10 hrs. since my Precipitated Withdrawals significantly decreased earlier today, of course I still feel like shit and want to take more sub, but I am afraid to.

Some websites say to keep taking 2 mg at a time every hour until I don't feel like this anymore while others say DO NOT continue using the sub until the next a.m. and then try again along with a hot bath. I just don't know what is right and what is wrong, what is a safe assumption compared to a dangerous risk?

(I will be more than happy to share the outcome of my story, hopefully it will be a happy one)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:22 pm 
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Hi There:

Welcome to the web site. As far as I know, there is exactly ONE doctor who occasionally posts here. The rest of us are just addicts like you.

I'm truly sorry you are having such a difficult time, but I am not qualified in any way to help you with this.

My advice would be to seek professional help.

I know that's not what you want to read right now, but that's my honest opinion. You need a doctor, not the conjecture of a group of addicts who take suboxone.

Please consider seeing a qualified medical professional.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:05 pm 
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i appreciate the help...when I made this post I had just taken 2 mg's and it did make me feel somewhat better so I took 2 more mg's and its weird, i still feel better but I still kinda feel the same too. I can't really explain it. it's not the same miracle drug feeling that it had for me before when I took it....but I am guessing that will only improve in-time.

I am a reasonable person though, and if my condition comes even close to what it was early this a.m. then I WILL be going to an ER and WILL be talking to several doctors...no matter what the cost.

If anyone else has anything to add or any experiences to share that may help me with this, please let me know.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:34 pm 
Hey Joe and welcome! I have to agree with J781. I don't know a whole lot about the Methadone to Suboxone path. The little I do know tells me that it is certainly one of the most difficult transitions to make. However, I've heard several people comment that after a while (up to a couple of weeks or more) things do level out and they're glad they made the change. So it may be a while before you feel a whole lot better or close to how you felt on Suboxone before. You've taken an especially hard route having been unable to get yourself down to that 30mg/day of the Methadone that I hear is so key to an easier transition. No judgements here though.....everyone comes to their own decisions based on what seems best for them, so to each their own. I just hate it that what you're forced to go through by doing things the harder way, you may not come out on the other side as stable and healthy as you might have otherwise.
I do wish you the best though. You're on the right track by accepting that if things don't get better for you, you've resigned yourself to the fact that you will seek further professional help. I wish I could help more, but I just don't have the knowledge base to do so. I can offer my support, however, and that you do have! Hang in there! We all know how hard it is, in general, to battle opiate addiction, no matter how 'different' every situation may be in it's details. Hope you'll be back!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:48 pm 
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Hi! welcome to the forum! All I know is that I did have someone who was very close to me at one time make the switch from Methadone to subs. Even though they did taper down to the recommended days 30mgs the first 3-4 were tough. It took them a good week to really start to feel what the sub was supposed to do. From what I hear it's a very tough switch, but with time it does get better. I do know this person was only doing 2mgs at a time to start out. Good luck. I think if it were me I'd just try to get some rest and stick it out till the morning for the next dose. But, that is just what my thoughts would be. I don't know the medical answer. Sorry, hang in there! You will get there eventually!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:35 pm 
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awesome thank you guys so much for you kind words and help...this is the first time I've ever posted on any forum/site having to do with my drug life and being able to 100% honest...it was really because of the other posts that I read that I knew there were people here who understand and could maybe help, but even if they can't, can still offer support and good things to hear for myself.

its 10:25 p.m. here my time and I do feel SIGNIFICANTLY better already. I still feel like shit, don't get me wrong...my head is pounding and I do not feel like I can sleep, however I have to get up very early tomorrow got lots to do, just praying tomorrow will be a better day and I just keep telling myself that it CAN'T get any worse.

I only found 2 different sites that even GAVE me a remote answer on what to do early this a.m. today when I was in my worst P.W. and worst thing I had ever felt period. One site told me to NOT take any more Sub until in the a.m. and that I should feel significantly better and that it would increase each day until I was stablized.

Site #2 read something along the lines, (not in exact words but you will get the idea). In the event or precipitated withdrawal (p.w.), you should wait a couple hours until the worst of it passes, then continue to dose Sub only 2 mg's at a time every 2 hours until I was stable.

While I was just simply too afraid of feeling the way I did today again, I did manage to take an entire 8 more mg's (2 mg at a time, sometimes waiting even a little MORE than 2 hours go by between each one) this afternoon/tonight and I am nowhere near the sick I was early today. Still have a little leg pain and dysphoria and just feel all around weird like people say on here, I know what you're talking about now. I did not experience ANYthing like this when switching to Sub last time. Tomorrow I am still only going to take 2 mg's at a time until I can figure out what my dose needs to be, or whatever the Doc says it needs to be tomorrow. I am unsure of what my tolerance level is at this point...5 days with no new methadone in the body, only MScontin and i honestly feel that my complications were NOT due to my past methadone treatment (although it probably did not help my opiate receptors at all), and felt truly that yesterday I should have inducted on sub actually EARLIER in the day before taking 100 mg MScontin to get through the day, which was definately why I went into P.W. and it was weird because I didn't get any relief at all from the MScontin yesterday, even tho it helped me get through the day before, but I remembered when I woke up real early this a.m. how i felt and it wasn't like withdrawals, it was just the general bad feeling that I am sure most opiate-addicts probably have when they wake up, before dosing.

Anyway, plan to continue on my suboxone in the morning and hopefully have much much better results. thanks a ton guys.

Sincerely,
Joemc


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:56 am 
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How are you feeling this morning?

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Of course there's such a thing as angels. Only sometimes they don't have wings... and we call them mothers. -Unknown


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:34 pm 
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much much better...after only a couple hours of sleep early this a.m. i went to my dr. appointment today feeling like the walking dead. they got the ball rollin quick and got me into induction, which went very well today. almost 100% better already, as bad as P.W. is, at least it doesn't last too long and the worst of it is very brief. while I am really not sure what I learned from my experience, or how it may help others who may read this in the future, maybe they will just do it the way that is best for them.

I waited like 10 hours after my initial P.W. kicked in at its worst and I was gradually feeling better, so I took 2 more mg's of Sub last night and waited an hour before taking anymore each time, dosing 4 mg's total. I did that twice throughout the day/night yesterday, and I'm really not sure if it helped me or hurt me...I really can't say. While it seemed to help, it also seemed that only time passing by was the true key to me feeling better. so anyone who goes into p.w., just remember it will NOT get any worse and it only gets better.

I also saw a friend of mine from the methadone clinic there at the suboxone clinic today, he went and switched up, did the same exact thing as me and he was the only person and the methadone clinic that i EVER talked to or befriended, cause he seemed to be a lot like myself....more-so than I imagined. He also went through P.W. on his induction day there at the clinic, but he checked himself into their inpatient program and he said they pumped him full of klonopin, attivan, and clonidine and he just slept through most of it, but it only lasted about 24 hours until he felt back totally normal....pretty much the same thing as me. The difference with him is he only waited 2 days after dosing methadone before starting sub induction, while I waited 4 days, but not even one day from the time I took the MScontin, which I am still pretty sure was what through me into P.W. and not the methadone in my system. Methadone has an extremely long half-life, i know, but after 5 days of no dosing, I'm pretty sure most of it was gone. who knows.

Thanks everyone for your help and support and I will keep posting my stories :)

your friend,
Joemc


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:17 pm 
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Hi Joemc and welcome to the forum. I'm glad to hear you're feeling better. As for what medication put you into PW, well, just remember, to your brain all opiates are the same. The receptors don't differentiate between methadone and the mscontin you took, from what I understand. Yours is a story I've heard before. It simply seems that it's a difficult transition from methadone to bupe. But I'm glad you've gotten past the worst part and are feeling more like yourself.

I hope you find as much support on this forum as I have. We're glad you're here.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:39 pm 
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thanks. day 3 now and I am finally feeling better, almost 100% normal. thank God. Finally got some good sleep last night...much needed. thanks again.


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