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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 7:56 am 
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Hi Everyone -

I'm new here, but I've been reading around and have enjoyed everyone's posts - definitely have learned a lot!

The point of my post is to just get opinions on the method of my switch from methadone to suboxone and any advice on how to make it go smoother. Honestly, I have a low tolerance from pain and I'm really nervous about being in withdrawals because I remember how crappy they feel. :cry:

When I first got clean, I started suboxone and ended up switching to methadone eventually due to me not thinking it was helping enough and not realizing that less is more with this particular drug.

I have been on MMT for almost 2 years with my highest maintenance dose at 120mg. I've been at 60mg for the last month after tapering about 5mg every month. I've been thinking for a few weeks about switching to suboxone and I finally called a doctor and made the decision this past Thursday.

My doctor had told me that I could just stop taking the methadone and wait until I get into moderate withdrawals before I start the induction, but that scared me.

So here's what I've been doing and what my plan is... Friday morning (May 2), I lowered my dose to 50mg. Saturday morning, I lowered my dose to 40mg, and today I have lowered it again to 30mg. So far I feel fine, no issues. My plan is to take 30mg tomorrow and Tuesday, and then 20mg on Wednesday, and 10mg on Thursday. I plan Thursday to be my last dose. After that, I plan on waiting until at least Sunday morning to start my Suboxone induction, or longer if I'm not a 26 on the COWS worksheet. With the induction, I plan on starting with 2mg and after 2 hours, taking another 2mg if I feel it's necessary.

Mainly the reason for taking my last dose on Thursday is because I work a regular Monday - Friday job and I'd rather not have to call in sick during the week because I'm going through the necessary withdrawals.

Some of my questions are: does anyone think I'm crazy for doing this? Will I be in a lot of pain? What happens if I score higher than a 26 on the COWS before Sunday morning (72 hours)? Has anyone ever heard of or know of someone who's successfully switched from a high dose of methadone, such as what I was on before this fast taper?

One of the other questions I had was on the COWS worksheet at the bottom is says that most doctors want Methadone patients to score at least a 5 and some doctors prefer a 15 before starting the induction process. However everything I have read online by patients says that one should score a 24-26 before starting induction. Why the difference?

I can't stop thinking about getting sick and I'm not looking forward to it at all... but maybe I'm making it out to be worse than it's going to be.

I appreciate in advance any responses that I get. :D

Thanks!!

Josh


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 1:34 pm 
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I went form I opiate doses to nothing for three days. My eyes still never dialated like they should have and still had precipitated wd! Not bad but uncomfortable. Now on .50 subutex and will be lowering too .25 next. Good luck and let me know how you do.
Bill


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 4:34 pm 
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Hi! I went from 120 mg. To suboxone. I was supposed to wean my dose down first but I was prescribed from a doctor and had my own prescription so being an addict that didn't happen. Finally my doctor got fed up with me and it was suboxone or nothing. I waited one day because I was in withdrawal but not bad enough because I went into precipitated withdrawal. I'm not a doctor but I would say to get down to forty mgs and wait a couple days before inducing. I say this because dropping your dose every day will be a shock to your body. Just my two cents, what does your doctor say?

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 12:14 am 
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My doctors an idiot and hasn't given me any advice. It felt like I almost had to educate him. I took 30mg this morning and I still feel fine at midnight tonight. I'll be dosing again in a few hours when I wake up, and plan on taking 30mg again. My goal is to remain withdrawal free until I'm at least out of work on Friday at 5. After that I won't mind it as much since I can just lay in my bed and sleep.

I just hope that taking my last dose on Thursday morning and waiting until Sunday will be long enough not to give me precipitated withdrawals. But Ive decided I'm going to start even lower with my suboxone induction just to me safe. I probably will only take 1mg at first and see what happens. I'm praying I'll be fine as it's Mother's Day and I'd really like to spend the day with my mom and not in bed. But she already knows what's going on and has already told me if I don't feel well it's not a big deal and to stay home.

I know I'm worrying more than I should. One week from now I'll know if it worked or not. Ha.

Thanks for both of your posts.


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:29 am 
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I think like that too."next week at this time":). You should be fine waiting that long and getting in a low dose. "Next week at this time" you will be glad to be in your new life

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 6:16 pm 
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Not many people have posted, but just wanted to give an update. Still doing well on my fast taper. This morning I took the final day of my 30mg dose and tomorrow I'm going to dose at 20. If I feel as fine as I do now, I'll be ecstatic. I was honestly really worried that going from 60mg to 30mg in a matter of 3 days would have really been painful, but so far so good.

Like I said before, Thursday is my last dose and I plan on taking 10mg, but leaving it open to 20 depending how I feel. I just need to get through 5pm on Friday and then if I feel bad I can just sleep.

I'll post again this weekend on I'm doing and if I still plan at inducting at the 72 hour mark which would be Sunday morning. Hopefully I'll be high enough on the COWS to induce.

Til then,

Josh


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:47 pm 
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You sure have more willpower than I do, it would be gone by now if it were me. I've thought about you all week so far wondering how you're doing

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 9:08 pm 
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Aw thanks! It's definitely not going to be easy but so far hasn't been too bad. Just wish I could fast forward a week! But I need to be patient and realize that I'm not the first person to go through this.

I definitely appreciate you caring!


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 9:45 am 
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Took my last dose about 5 hours ago.. let the games begin! Ha...

Didn't feel too hot last night, so I decided I needed to take 30mg this morning instead of 20... Mainly due to the reason that I must get through the day tomorrow at work. So I'm hoping that extra 10 will drag me through at least 5pm.

Still nervous about my induction, but I just have to think positive and know that as long as I wait 72 hours and score well on the COWS that I will be fine. I'm definitely going to start low when I start the subuxone just to be safe.

For anyone that may be lurking, I'll post updates throughout the weekend on how I'm coming along. Keep me in your thoughts and prayers!

Josh


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 9:58 am 
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I knew dropping your dose won't work. Keep going you're almost there, induction should bea piece of cake

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 12:32 pm 
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Well it's been 32 hours since my last dose. Able to work today, thank God, and feeling OK. Have some chills, some stomach discomfort, but feel OK otherwise. I think everything will probably start tomorrow or tomorrow night. But that's OK because I can sleep and wake up Sunday and hopefully start induction.

Staying positive for now!

:)

Josh


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 3:29 am 
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Hey josh, thought I would put my two cents in. I also switched from MMT to suboxone four years ago. Luckily my doctor had a lot of experience with the transition. I was on 40mg of methadone when I switched. Because of the long half life of methadone, my doc switched me over to a short half life opiate (Dilaudid) for ten days, to let the methadone run its course. I had tried unsuccessfully to switch to subs on my own, usually waiting 72 hours, but I had no success. The precipitated withdrawal was immediate and pretty terrible. After the ten days, I induced after 36 hours off Dilaudid and never looked back. Even if your doctor is an "idiot" as you say, he must know that methadone stays around for a while. If he doesn't give you the option that my doc did, I would suggest holding off as LONG as possible! A smooth induction is such a relief, and I sincerely hope that you get through this! Stay strong.

Prodigy

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:40 pm 
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Thanks Prodigy - I appreciate your post. I'm definitely going to wait as long as possible.

It's only 7 hours until the 72 hour mark and I have to to become so sick that it's unbearable. No diarrhea yet, not sweating, eyes and nose aren't running. My only issues are pain everywhere, especially my legs and I had terrible insomnia up until last night. I took a Meclazine 25mg tablet and 800mg of ibuprofen and apparently passes out. That was about 1am I would guess. I didn't wake up today until 7:30 pm, so I guess I'm very luck to have been able to sleep the day away. I tried to get out of bed a few times, but my body hurt too bad.

I'm praying that within the next 7 hours I will start experience further withdrawal because I hate dragging this out. I just want to be done with it and on the suboxone and have my life back to where it was. But I didn't become addicted in only a few days, so I can't expect to be better any sooner than that.

One thing I know for sure is that if I don't score a 26+ at the 72 hour mark I'm sure as hell not taking any suboxone. I've read the horror stories of precipitated withdrawal and I promised myself that I would wait it out until I was sure that it would not happen.

But I'm keeping a positive attitude and hoping God is being nice to me and will get me very sick at hour 70 or something. Two hours I think I can handle.

Thanks again everyone that's posted and helped. And to anyone lurking and just reading this, I hope somehow I've helped you.

I will update later on how I'm progressing.

Til then,

Josh


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 7:11 am 
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Well it's coming up on hour 75... and apparently this methadone just won't leave my body... I was hoping to wake up and be in full blown withdrawal - but I guess it isn't happening anytime soon.

Still just annoying aches and pains everywhere and chills... and I kind of feel out of it. But that's about it.

I guess I'm just discouraged because I had been looking forward to that 72 hour mark for over a week now. I was so excited knowing that on Sunday morning I'd finally feel better... Now i know every person is different, and I'm just going to have to wait some more. The addict in me wants to go ahead and try a small sliver of a sub to see if it makes me feel any better. But then the responsible part of me says "Don't you you dare risk going in to P/W"...

So off I go to wait... some more... drinking lots of water.. trying to make myself sweat it all out. I just want to feel better by this afternoon so I can spend it with my mom. This is the first mother's day in 13 years that I've actually lived close enough to my mom to be able to see her on this day, so it's important to me. I guess I'll keep praying... and waiting.

Thanks for listening.

Til later,

Josh


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 11:42 am 
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Go, spend time with your mom. It will help you get your mind off how you feel. I'm sorry that the 72 hour mark wasn't it for you, but do not take a sliver! Trust me, you don't want to go through that, especially on Mother's day. Make it through a couple more days and you will be VERY glad that you did. Your attitude seems great. Keep fighting man this is the home stretch.

Prodigy

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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 12:22 pm 
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Well more symptoms came and came and I finally had enough. I checked my COWS score and thought that I'd be OK starting the induction.

I took .25mg just to be safe. Waited a half hour, took another .25mg. Waited another half hour and took .5mg... then took 1mg, then 2mg... so I've used half of a strip and I feel feel no relief whatsoever. None of my symptoms got worse, it just is not helping at all..

I've read some other posts that say that your receptors just need to be saturated with this stuff at first to feel good, but not sure if there is any truth to that. I'll give it some more time and if I don't feel well, I'll take some more. At least I'm not in PW... that makes me very happy! But I'm still kind of bummed that I'm not feeling any better. I guess I need to give it time.

But either way at least I'm not horrible enough to cancel on my mom, so thats another good thing!

Thanks for all your help.

Josh


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:25 pm 
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Like I said before, methadone is a complete different animal. I had to take a whole strip to make me feel normal. Methadone just gives such a high tolerance even on low doses. I did go through pwds so the next day a friend told me to take eight mgs. I was scared but glad I did it. I also needed to use a higher maintenance dose than most people.

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:36 am 
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How are you doing????

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:28 am 
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Good Morning... started to feel better towards the end of last night. But I still felt a little "strung out" I guess I would call the feeling. I think it was because I had taken too much, plus I had only 3 hours of sleep in the 30 hours prior.

I slept fine last night and took 4mg this morning and feel allright now. I'm hoping that will last me til tomorrow morning. I still don't feel "normal", but with the last almost two years on methadone maintenance, I guess I'm not sure what normal feels like anymore. I did take suboxone before methadone when I first got clean, and I think maybe I was expecting it to work the way it did before.

Anyway, I'm grateful that I'm no longer going through w/d and grateful that I'm saving $400+ a month on methadone. I think my body just needs time to get used to the methadone not being there and the suboxone taking its place.

Thanks for following up on me - I appreciate it! Will post an update tomorrow or Wednesday.

Josh


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:41 am 
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Hey man I'm glad to hear that you are feeling better. After a couple of good night's sleep, I'm sure you will be feeling a whole lot better. It took me a couple days to feel "normal" as well. Congrats on making the switch.

Prodigy

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