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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:20 pm 
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Im sure this is in the wrong section, so if there is a one that is better suited and a mod could move it I would appreciate it.

Also, I know this isnt a Methadone forum, but everyone here is SO much more knowlegable than any other site I have ever been on I thought I would post my question here.

Im actually asking this for a good friend of mine's gf (I was on Methadone, but have been off since Nov 14th). She's currently on 90mgs of Methadone and is doing research to see what her options are for getting off of it. I told her my story (I was on 100+mgs of Methadone, stopped CT for 6 or so days, checked into a detox where they gave me Subutex for 5 days and was fine). She said that everyone she has talked to, doctors, detox centers, internet, and fellow users of Methadone tell her that whatever she does GET DOWN BELOW 30mgs of Methadone before trying to switch to Subutex or Suboxone. Everone is super hell bent on this and Im not sure I completely understand why.

Does anyone know why this is and what is happening to folks that try and make the switch to Sub when they are above 30mgs of Methadone? Im not talking about percipitated w/d from taking the sub too quick, but more so reffering to being able to get on Suboxone or Subutex when coming from a high dose of Methadone (70, 80, 90mgs).

Like I said, I personally went from well over 100mgs of Methadone to Subutex and had 0 issues once I started taking the Sub. The way I did it was I stopped taking the Methadone CT (no tapering) for almost 6 days before i checked into detox, once admitted, I took the following amounts of Subutex (dont ask me why they gave me the doses they did, kinda a weird schedule if you ask me):

Day 1 - 4mgs
Day 2 - 8mgs
Day 3 - 4mgs
Day 4 - 4mgs
Day 5 - 2mgs
Day 6 - (checked out of detox and started taking 6mgs of Suboxone/day)

I give a run down of the dosing only because it wasnt like I was even taking an outrageous amount of Sub and i was still pretty much fine.

Anyhow, I wont ramble anymore, just thought someone here may have a little more insight regarding this 30mgs or LESS deal. As always, thanks for any and all help!!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:03 am 
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I've posted my experience under methadone mainenance I think.

Nov. 18 or so (2010) I had been on methadone 75mg for a year. Prior to that for just about 2 years I was on 50mg. I jumped off of 75mg for 6 days and started Subtuex. The only thing I did was during those 6 days off of methadone I took a few 5mg vicodin to help ease w/s that I think only really helped psychologically.

They always say to get down to 30mg on methadone to make the switch more successful and even tho you said you understand the pwd I am pretty sure that is why they say to get to that dose first. I don't know anything else about it. You jumped from a fairly high dose as did I...we both did well... even my 6 days cold turkey off of 75mg were not bad at all. It was not even as bad as my last vicodin w/d, which sounds crazy I know. Maybe my head was where it needed to be and so excited to get off methadone, i don't know. But I do believe our thinking makes a huge difference....I've talked to people who have said that they would go to jail for drugs and know they wouldn't be able to get their doc and not have w/d....but if they were at home and just ran out of their doc (and knew they could get more if possible) they'd have w/d....so that shows you how powerful our thinking is.

As is always said, everyone is different. Some cannot go hours before they have w/d, some can...I think your friend would be ok trying it. There is a COWS scale you probably already know about....a way to monitor your w/d symptoms on a rating scale and then dose on sub based on where you are....they say you need to be in moderate w/d before starting sub to prevent pwd. My experience was that I didn't even get to moderate w/d....I was still probably a 7 on the COWS when I started sub off of methadone...but because it had been 6 days and then 20 hours since my last vicodin 5mg I just went for it...I couldn't wait any more. I started at 2mg of subutex and after an hour didn't have pwd, so took another 2mg. then my dr told me to take more in afternoon and my first day I ended up taking 10mg.

that is my experience if it helps


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:48 am 
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Getting down to 30 mg or lower is the best way to avoid precipitated withdrawals when making the switch to bupe. Methadone is so long acting that it's more difficult to make the transition to bupe than with other, more short-acting full agonists. Many people actually stop the methadone a week or so before starting sub, going onto oxy or something for that interim week.

I hope this helps.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:54 am 
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I could imagine there is a slight difference in switching from methadone to suboxone, compared to switching to subutex, because of the naltraxone component in the former.
I was on methadone for a combined ~15 years and switched to subutex from 20mg methadone without overwhelming negative impact. The dose they prescribed was a little to low - i think it was 8mg, but they gave me the ok to take a little more if needed to cover w/ds ( which was minor). I think i took around 10-12mg the first week or so. In the beginning i had to dose more often then with methadone - but i think that might be because bup has to build up in the system.
As Hat mentioned, the longer you can wait between the last methadone and the first buprenophine dose, the easyer it will be. With that said, i dont think i even waited 24 hours before switching. If you are switching to a naltraxone component i wouldnt do it that fast though.


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 Post subject: done to sub
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:13 pm 
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I was on Methadone from 99-o4. I checked into rehab on my five yr dose of 120mg. I was climbing the walls after four days. Being bi-polar , I need atleast 7 hrs of sleep a day to function. Well, let me start out by saying I didn't eat nor sleep for 5 days. I have kicked plenty of times, but this was BY FAR THE SICKEST IVE EVER BEEN. They gave me darvon (ha) for the 5 days and told my family (bc i kept telling them the center was incompetent, and I was going back to the clinic) I would die if i left.

On the fifth morning they gave me what tasted like a bad roll, suboxone (8mg). I was the only one on methadone detoxing btw. It sent my system into shock and I have never felt worse! :shock: :shock: I left the phony bolony treatment facility and went back to the clinic.

I AM A FIRM BELEIVER ONE NEEDS TO BE ON 30MG OR LESS OF DONE BEFORE STARTING SUBS!!! any rehab that tells one different is incompetent and mis-informed, as many were in 04 about a methadone to suboxone switch. Get weened down or put on short acting agonist and ween yerself to a low level. Then start subs. Don't f with your body too much it 's been through enough!;)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:26 am 
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I switched once.

Got down to 50mg, then waited 36 hours, then got given 4mg suboxone. The first 24 hours I felt bit of precipitated withdrawal. It was an uncomfortable day - I couldn't function - but it wasn't complete hell on earth. Second day my dose got raised to 6mg, third day 8mg. By then I was feeling fine, actually better than fine. I felt like I was human again, and could feel after being in the methadone haze for 2 years.

T


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