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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:31 pm 
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Before Suboxone, I entered Methadone maintenance for 2 months, and spent 2 months experiencing withdrawal symptoms and losing 35 pounds. I started with 30mg, and when I stopped I was at 90mg. I don't know why methadone doesn't work for me, but I can described what happened.

To explain I have to start with the characteristic of "regular" opiates. Say I'm addicted at a level of 80mg daily Oxycodone. If I suddenly cut that daily dose in half, I will experience some withdrawal until my body adjusts to the half-dose, which then becomes the new norm for my addiction. In time, I will feel as comfortable on 30mg as I did on 60mg... withdrawal symptom-wise anyway.

With Methadone, the process worked exactly opposite... I could start with 30mg and feel fine for a few days until the withdrawal symptoms started. So, would increase the dose, feel fine for a few days, experience withdrawal, and have to up the dose again. I would be relatively normal for maybe 3 hours after dosing, then the withdrawal would begin. By dosing time the next day, I would be a wreck. This went on until reaching 90mg, and I realized that there was going to be no end to it! I could imagine the jam I'd eventually be in... taking 200mg of Methadone yet in full withdrawal! So, I did a crash detox from the Methadone (not fun), and started Suboxone.

The doctor at the Methadone clinic could never diagnose the problem, but did say that my liver wasn't storing the Methadone.

With other opiates my decision to increase the dose was mandated by the tolerance issue. With Methadone, that decision was made necessary because I would always begin to suffer withdrawal symptoms on any dose, forcing me to take more.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:44 am 
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Well.... methadone maintenance generally uses doses from 60mg on up to several hundred milligrams, (less than 60mg is rarely effective) though they often titrate up to the effective dose (go in small steps until they hit the dose that works), so it's possible you quit before they found that level. Still, no addiction therapy works for everyone.

Hope you are doing better on the new therapy.


Last edited by Euphemism on Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:52 am 
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Every dose of the Methadone did work, even the 30mg induction dose... for a short while. Increasing my Methadone intake behaved precisely like a rapid detox from other opiates... significant withdrawal.

No problems with the Suboxone... I took to it like fish to water.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:10 am 
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I was really worried when I first started looking into Sub maintenance that my tolerance would gradually increase and the dose would have to upped, I guess I thought it was like methadone light or something. I obviously had no idea how bupe worked and why it's so different. I've been so impressed by how normal I've felt and the fact that I've not felt any withdrawal being on the same dose for about 2 1/2 years. I'm glad you found something that worked for you I think it goes without saying there are alot of opiate addicts who aren't as lucky as us :cry:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:05 pm 
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It seemed to work fine for the addicts in line at the window every morning. I'm happy they found relief. But, Methadone certainly didn't help me... I was sick almost every day of the two months I was on the program.

Compared to the office-based Suboxone regimen, the Methadone treatment (MMT) was a chore. The clinics are few and far between, and many of the 700+ patients at my clinic had to drive hours to and from the dosing window. A change in the law a few years ago allowed for some takehome doses, but surprise dose checks, urine testing and mandatory counseling added a lot of worry to the program. To say nothing of the cost... MMT is not generally covered by insurance, and is expensive.

Then, there's the rough crowd who goes there. I've never seen another Suboxone patient, but I've seen hundreds of MMT patients. Many of them were the type that made you try to remember if you locked your car doors in the parking lot. Then, there was always the one or two who had "just got out of jail" who were begging to cut line because of the withdrawals.

Yep, it was a tough two months for me, but in the long run I'm happy that MMT didn't work out for me. On Suboxone I see only my doctor every 3-4 months who evaluates my progress and writes a new prescription. The only problem is that he eventually forces all his patients to detox off the Suboxone. I wish that wasn't so, as my life has been completely normal while on the program. I'm down to 1mg and expect I'll be completely clean of the Sub in perhaps 2 months. The taper has been uneventful since I've been reducing my doses for perhaps a full year now.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:33 am 
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What a weird phenom! It's usually the opposite with methadone....it can take years to become tolerant. I actually saw a few studies where they considered mixing methadone with other pain killers to see if the cocktail would create less tolerance...it worked really well with morphine. But everyone's body is so different! The enzyme that is used to break down methadone might be deficient in you (hey Dr. J...do you know which enzyme it is?) or if your on other meds or you have any form of liver disease it can affect the way you metabolize ANY drug. Do you have Hep C I knew of a patient who had to take tegretol for epilepsy that had to increase his methadone dose to astronomical amounts because teg interferes so much with the metabolism of methadone. He had to have trough levels drawn constantly and methadone would still be at very low levels even at 500mg per day. I believe he ended up going back to heroin because he was so miserable on methadone and he had a pain condition he believed he couldn't live with without pain control. He was a known addict, with a criminal history so legit pain control was completely unavailable to him. I remember reading his posts and just hoping he would keep writing...but he dropped off and we never did here what happened in the end. I guess we can hope for the best.

Anywho--the most concerning thing in your post is that your doctor INSISTS you come off the suboxone.....yah know, I just don't get it! If the doctors that do this TRULY knew what they were doing, they would never in a million years force anyone off the med before they were ready! It makes me so angry because TO ME it's like telling a suicidal patient that has finally got their depression under control with medication--that they've been "healthy" long enough and now they gotta figure out how to NOT BE DEPRESSED without meds. It's absurd! How can a doctor justify giving someone a life saving medication for a LIMITED AMOUNT OF TIME?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:51 am 
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ARM-ME, I totally agree. I am the opposite-- I recommend that people stay on Suboxone, and am frustrated by the occasional 22-y-o who is intent on being 'normal' again, off everything. I try to explain that 'normal' (if there is such a thing) is not an option-- I like to use the analogy of riding a bike and explain that even though I haven't ridden for years, there is no way for me to 'forget' how to ride. Addiction is a learned phenomenon, and it cannot be 'unlearned'. Not selectively, anyway... we used to say in the old anesthesia days that if a surgeon yelled 'oops' BEFORE the midazolam, there was no way to erase the memory... except hypoxia, which unfortunately reversed pretty much everything and so was not a great option.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:24 pm 
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I was on Methadone for 6 years it was not the answer for me Saboxone has given me back my life. I do'nt get high like I did on methadone and my quality of life is fantastic!. We are all different, like the old saying goes, different strokes for different folks.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:04 am 
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Yep, the Methadone experience was crazy to say the least. Every dosage I was at worked just fine for less than a week... then the withdrawals would begin precisely as if I had suddenly halfed the dosage. I would up the dose, and feel fine for a few days again until the withdrawal symptoms began anew. It was a madness I chose to end at 90mg after talking to every counselor and MD at the MMT facility and not receiving an answer for my malady.

I selected a detox facility that used Subutex for detox, only to learn that Subutex wasn't used for Methadone withdrawal for fear that it would precipitate withdrawal. I went for days at the detox facility not eating, drinking or sleeping... all I did was pace and churn. The other patients who were on the Subutex were laughing and playing ping-pong, while my pupils were so dilated that I was half-blind. The craziest thing for me was the Phase I meetings... how could I participate in any meeting when out of my mind? I'd find to find places to hole up while listening to my name being called on the PA system... didn't care; was completely beyond caring. In retrospect I could have done it at home with more privacy.

I know I'm bouncing around here, but August 10th is the next appointment with my Suboxone shrink who is determined to wean me off the Suboxone. And, I'm still stuck at 1mg. I don't expect he'll be happy, since he's already said that he's not going to "keep feeding" me the medicine. Nice fellow, but's he's a dyed-in-the-wool 12-stepper and won't consider the notion of using Suboxone as maintenance.

But, I still have Plan B and Plan C to consider post-Suboxone. Hard to believe, but I'm sliding rapidly toward 60 years old. After the Army and three decades with Metropolitan Police I've long felt that I wasn't supposed to be alive anyway. I've been lucky to have had what I did.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:08 pm 
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Long story short, I started on suboxone in feb of 2005, was on 3 8mg subs daily, then was put on valium 20mg 2x daily by my psychiatrist for P.T.S.D. and rage. All was going good, until I developed tolerance to the subs in late 06. I started digging into my stash, taking 5 8mg at once and crushing em up with my teeth and holding the saliva for 20mins and I got a nice buzz too. Strange, contrary to what is known(I think I have a unique body chemistry or something), taking that much would stop at the ceiling effect and you would waste all that medicine. Well as obsessed with getting that cozied up, happy, energetic, full of ambition to get stuff done feeling, I started abusing them sadly.

I was also looking into the methadone option, by luck since I live close enough to the big city, there was not only one in city, but one just luckily only 20 mins from our "hive" lol house. My suboxone doc already was nice enough to let me off the hook twice in the past for 1, stopping subs and getting high off norco 10's when I could still order em, then go back on subs when I ran out. I'm one of those people who can take suboxone only 5 hours after a short acting opiate like hydrocodone and as soon as wd's start, they go away when Id start back on subs. He gave me one last warning, if I abuse my subs one more time, such as use more and run out before I need to see him for another script, he would cut me off and send me to a halfway house. Well dumb me, I didn't do a pill count and one day in Aug of 2006 after a week of buzzing, realized I only had 8 subs left. I wasn't going to see the doc until a week, I tried suddenly dropping to taking just one 8mg daily, that failed due to tolerance.

My "friends" online from another support forum, said their opinions to me about going on methadone but I didn't listen, I wish I had, but, I'm type of person who has to experience something even though my senses tell me otherwise. So I quit the subs for 24 hours and went into the local clinic. It is a private clinic, you pay the starting fee of $170? I forgot, then they check you over etc and talk to you etc. I was honest with them that I have a problem with easily giving into temptation to take more pills than I"m supposed to, so my family member has to lock up my pills and give em to me everyday. They then called over to the doctor there and all I heard was, "he's in here to get off suboxone, was abusing them and never did H but was only into vicodin, gobbling up 8 10/500's before suboxone induction in 2005". She was saying, yea but maybe we should try him on subutex or isn't methadone too strong etc?, I couldn't hear the doctor, she all of a sudden said "ok, so dose him 30?", ok thanks.

I was taken into the small nursing room for vitals etc and for a tb test, then they told me how my daily routine would be and I was dosed 30mg of methadone. They had those huge wafers the Mallie brand and they put half of a 40mg tablet and one piece to make 30mg in a cup of hot water and I put some cold water in and drank it. The taste didn't bother me. They had me sit up front where you first sign in, said we need to keep eye on you for an hour, methadone takes up to an hour for full effects. I didn't know methadone was a "creeper type of opioid" meaning it slowly takes effect. I sat there waiting anxiously for wd's to go away, scared but my senses were telling me, you will do great. Right on, after 45 mins I could feel my receptors filling up with "love feeling", I couldn't stop grinning uggghhh. This nice guy watching me periodically, saw me grinning and said, you look like you are doing good, I said yea I'm feeling great, no wd's, I just can't stop laughing, he said"no problem". After the hour was up, he said "you are free to leave, just remember to come back everyday". I left with a nice morphine like buzz and another 120 10/500 norco's to pick up at the Fed Ex hub. Not too far away, I ran there and picked them up for emergency.

I was lucky I had them, because since I had my whole colon taken out and the "j pouch" done so no colostomy, food and meds seem to metabolize in me faster than normal people UGGGHH. MY buzz lasted a few hours and I could feel it coming down, by 4pm I was in bad wd's, I took 4 norco's and felt good again. I had to keep that up and only take as many asneeded to keep wd's at bay. I was honest etc at the clinic, so they upped my dose 10mg a week"max allowed by Illinois law", unless otherwise ordered by the doctor there himself. He saw me in a week, I was honest and he said "we gotta get you off that vicodin so you dont need to take it to keep wd's at bay. I"m going to write an order now for 20mg increase, because there is a chemical reaction"forgot what details he gaveme", which can speed up damage to your liver while on methadone and you should not take anymore than 5 of them in one day, you understand why right? I said yes. He on the way out, said goodluck, we have to stabilize you quickly so you dont need the vicodin to get through the night.

Finally I got another refill to pick up a month later while I was still titrating up on methadone,with only 1 refill left. Halfway through my 2nd bottle of vicodin, I finally leveled off at 150 or 160mg, methadone, which held me through the night so that I was only suffering mild wd's on the way there inthe morning. I was still getting a nice buzz from methadone, not the nodding type which I dont like,but the energetic,antidepressant effect etc which I loved. Got a ton of stuff done around the "hive" before fall which I would never have finished except just in time for winter, if I was not on this stuff.

Sadly in the end methadone didn't work out for me, I dont know why but during the time I was on it, I maxed out at 240 or maybe more mg once a day. I only got weekend take homes for sat and sun or for family vacations or holidays. I could have got weekly take homes like alotof people there. They'd pay $60 weekly fee, dose and take their weekly take homes. However my counselor who I hate now"personal reasons", didn't want me to have weekly take homes because she and the doctor there were afraid I'd abuse them. I had a good safe to put my take homes in for weekend etc, I'm sure most clinics have that policy. Well I started having health problems, first I had an enormous appetite which sent me from 170# to 210#, which I still have even though I'm back on suboxone. I started getting bad pain in my feet and then my right lower leg started hurting so bad I could hardly walk, I had developed a dvt blood clot in my right leg, I was on blood thinners at the hospital for a week, then just pills when I got home. I saw a special doctor for this for a few months, until it went away. Then I developed a loose tooth that is about to come out. I see a dentist very soon. I started nodding off everyday at 12 noon or so and slept all day till suppertime, only to eat and go back to bed for the night about 2 hours after supper.

Then the doctor got concerned and had me do an ekg and darn, he said I had a strange skip in my heartbeat and was scared about it. He said since 200? out of all my patients, as my luck would have it, he said "you are one of those few who gets this" 2 out of the 7 people died from this, their heart just stopped beating and they died. I said well I wish I was dead anyway so I dont care. He was concerned, I said dont worry I'm not suicidal today, I just mean, it doesn't scare me, it just makes me disgusted how I've been dealt the worst luck in my life, yet sometimes small miracles come my way and my life sucks. He said he was going to have to titrate me down to 150mg and hold me there until they figure out more about this.I saw a cardiologist who luckily got me in easy because he already knew my Mom because heart probs run in family. He did an ekg, my family doc/suboxone doc also did an ekg a few months ago and when his nurse did the ekg, he came in the room later and looked at it and said to me"you know the methadone is causing this dont you?" I said, no but my special senses told me anyway so I expected that. I forgot what the technical word for it was but it was a long word starting with the letter D. I gave him fax# for the clinic so he could fax that ekg in too along with the important technical word etc with his signature etc.

Well the counselor I hate there at the clinic, not only did something illegal against me which backfired on her, but worse yet out of revenge because I abused my take homes the 2nd thanksgiving in a row, she hid the crucial fax in a folder in HER office, a folder she had on me. my special senses were telling me"something was up", sure enough so I set an appt to see the doctor at the clinic himself to explain her etc. The day I was waiting for him, just a min before he came to get me, the counselor I no longer saw asked me why I was there to see the doc and I said "for a followup and personal". She suddenly started typing away like crazy at the keyboard at the cpu she was at. I thought that dirty sneak, I bet she was covering up the fact that she out of revenge tried to lower me suddenly to 60mg from 150mg one day when I admitted to abusing my take homes, which she said the first time that I would be kicked off the program if I did it again. Yet 2nd time I did it she did this corrupt thing and even said "DAMN" as I walked out the door the day she tried to mess my dose up after I ignored her on way out, she said, what happened? they dosed me, what? 150mg they said it was, and you took it? I said yes with a evil grin, that's when she said "damn".

I was cussing her out to the doctor at the clinic etc, after finding out the doctor only had one ekg from the clinic and another from my cardio doc. I was ticked, I said why dont you go to the **&% and ask for the most recent and most important ekg from my family doctor that she most likely has hidden in her chart on me, IN her office?. He said ok I'll do that but she's at a meeting now. I said HMMM well she was just at the computer right before you called me in etc. He then said, "how is the 150mg working for you?" I said, I dont even realize I take it, I'm just barely outta wd's and can't sleep at night and now am taking OTC sleeping pills to sleep at night and, I"m so bent on getting high that I'm one suburb away from getting good H, which I"m about to do. He said no no, dont do that, with your poor social skills you could get ripped off or worse yet arrested or shot. He suddenly said, I"ll see about raising your dose a little.

Wake up call, my gifted special senses"which is the only lucky thing I have going for me in life", was giving me strong vibes to wait till monday so I could pay for the week I missed a payment plus for the week I was last there. SO I did, came in monday and paid up all "loose ends", kept coming in, dosing until my last dose on sat when I was given the last take home I had paid up for, since I was stripped of any take homes except for when they are closed sunday and on holiday's. I was so upset that I decided to scare the heck outta everyone. I dumped CT that sunday at 9:30am, after taking my sunday take home. That monday I didn't go into the clinic, it was getting on 8:30am, my Mom said"you better call your ex suboxone doctor and tell him what you are doing" I did and got his nurse. Not 10mins after I called, she called me back and said the doctor toldme I had to immediately asap go into the detox building, where I was back in feb of 05 after gettingon suboxone then for the first time.

I went in and filled out form after form etc, then the doctor saw me, I said it is after 9:30am now, 24 hours sincemy last dose of 150mg methadone. He told me all I already knew, about how difficult it is to switch back from methadone to suboxone, especially since I was on such high doses from 06 to 2010. I was put in same bed I was in the first time, which was a flashback. I was given my normal dose of benzo's which helped a little for me to sleep. They didn't want me to get up all day the first day because I think they were scared I could have a heart attack etc anytime. 4 horrific days of wd's of methadone, I was crying in the bathroom, sadly nobody to comfortme. I didn't want my roomate to hear me, What turned out to be the first cool detox stay out of 3 or 4th time in detox was amazing. My roomate who I was very careful talking to about my personal life, turnedout to be a mutual friend and cool to talk to, to keep my mind off the insanity of wd's. I couldn't sleep by the 3rd and 4th day, we stayed up till 1am or so talking and mostly him showing me his awesome internet phone, which I instantly wanted to get when my finances allow it. He also taught me some crucial basic social skills for the real world when I got out, after telling him how isolated from society I was, I can't trust anyone because I have a mental disability too.

Day 4 was my day, I was in tears almost as I wobbled into docs office with blurry vision and a scary heart and pulse etc. He said he was starting meout on 4mg sub 2x daily. I was observed and all went great, I finally felt no depression and sadness so bad anymore and I was not freezing from head to toes, but it was in steps. Day one I was outta depression etc but still cold frommy knees up. And so on, it felt strange"like the heat had been turned on in a huge house that of course woud take forever to heat up", by day 4 I was all cozied up.

I was discharged, but to this day I"m still seeing my suboxone doc once a week and I've just been fullof rage the past week almost, probably after all I've been through. Thank God I see him very soon, wish me good luck. Anyone else have this happen to them after going on methadone or switching from subs to methadone? sorry for the long story but, thought I'd share my story too.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:06 am 
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I basically summed it up in a nutshell my methadone story, bear with me as I just hate it too being mentally unable to communicate at speeds normal people do. I feel all my life how different I was, but being mentally disabled has caused me long, misery and hopelessness like a person stuck with a "broken" junk computer that is sooo sloow.

I feel like I'm finally coming to terms with myself after years of hell literally, the result I now feel and realize I'm like "sentenced to life in a pos body". I feel like nothing works right, I can't get through and feel like my soul/spirit(me) is so fed up with living in this body that, that's why I am so suicidal and have been since I was 14. I felt like I could actually make things work like never before when through my real self, finally realized opiates were the answer to helping my pos body and "computer upstairs work way better".

Then I run into another problem that I'm stuck with trying to figure out since I'm unique, such as tolerance damage caused by me taking too long to fully learn all about opium and how it effects me and in alot of ways different than others. For example when I switched to methadone in 2006. Very strange, I actually had been less than 24 hours since my last suboxone dose, I was on a high dose back in 2006 too. 3 8mg pills daily, plus who knows what was left in me from "abusing" them, taking 5 subs at a time and crushing em up in my mouth and holding saliva for 20 mins and then swallowing always.

Running outta subs like crazy until I had realized it was too late to spread them out, I was shocked at the fact that I took to methadone the very first day like I was on Heroin. After sitting there for a half hour after dosing 30mg so they could observe me for an hour total. I was told that it takes an average of an hour for it to creep up on you. Suddenly I could feel it, like love rushing through the veins, I started smiling and laughing, they knew I was feeling REAL GOOD, I accidently locked eyes with the guy observing me and he said, you look like you are doing ok? I said yea.

Scared to say, something silly, like WOO WOO feel the love of opiates duh me, I said wow I'm surprised I didn't puke, my wd's are almost gone and I feel like my life is coming back and I can think again with no depression. They said I could leave now, of course come back everyday. This is strange but I can't stop craving that "feeling" I get on opiates, the right ones, sadly what went wrong with methadone, I will never know. I feel like my body is just a pos. Ever since my body started "falling apart" in 1990 when I was only 19 and developed chronic ulcerative colitis, and so fast too.

My colon specialist said I was the strangest case he ever saw and acted fast by putting me on the highest legal dose of prednisone and sulfa pills I could be on. Well as soon as my Dad knew I was "basically on legalized steroids", he kept pushing me to lift weights with him, it was his obsession. Yet me being on all that made my moods crazy and my sex drive very strange.

I always went into sudden remission with my colitis, boom just one day, no more blood or stools at all. One time I went two weeks without "taking a dump", everyone was just baffled. I finally went after two weeks and one day or two. I had a ferocious appetite too, however as long as I didn't have much sugar I was fine or I'd get a migraine like headache and have to take 4 asprin, sometimes I'd puke.

Ever since I had my whole colon taken out, I felt as if though I was a junk car about ready for the junking certificate and here I(my soul) was stuck in this junker, trying to figure ways around stuff, possibly damaging stuff more along the way. However back to methadone and opiates all around, I never felt so good in my whole life as I have when I could "tweek" opiates to work the way I want them to. For example ordering all that norco online made me so full of life, yet I knew my liver couldn't stand all that apap forever, but what was I to do?

When it comes to opiates, I am not wastefull at all, that's why when someone on a drug site said you better do a cwe. I was like, that's crazy, I'm wasting 50% of the "opiate" in it, plus when I mentioned that to my doctor at the clinic, he said " you very obviously dont know much at all about chemistry do you"? I said honestly no I dont, how could I get just pure hydrocodone? he said, you are dreaming, first off you would need a huge room and hundreds of thousands of $$$ worth of chemical stuff to do this.

I was like wow, so finally I understood that the reason the glow I was getting from methadone wore off so fast is due to something because I have no colon, or I metabolize stuff faster than normal people. I'm just disgusted with the fact that I have to live this way the rest of my life because I have no colon. I dont understand why I took to the morphine like high I got from methadone for so long, then like the norco's, suddenly the high started fading, the more I upped my dose of methadone, suddenly one day, just like that I felt like "oh shit it just blew up", I was on 220mg of methadone, yet when I stabilized on 150 and it held me through the day, I still felt like it wasn't enough and thought I could get a little more outof it so I went to 160. I was fine.

I kept having to have my dose upped, honestly I must have blocked it out because I forgot how often I asked for 10mg max increases. I remember I was on our family vacation when I felt that "oh shit it blew up" kind of feeling in 2007, we were having a great time in Minnesota. I would take my morning dose and sit next to my brother and we could talk normal for once. while he'd be fixing his fishing stuff up"lol he is obsessed with fishing now", I'd be "fixing my dose" and waiting for an hour for that WOO WOO feeling. Until then I felt like I was running on empty and immobilizing.

All of a sudden, I knew when methadone was creeping up on my and I was almost there, when I'd start talking alot. Then slowly WOo WOOOO. Okay everyone, I'm starting to FEEL REAL GOOD, lets get going before I run outta gas. It was sort of very funny the way me and my brother got along but in a way it put my Mom down and my brothers g/f too, because her brother had just died of a heart attack half a year ago back then. There is more to addiction in my family than I know.

I feel betrayed royally by my dad and his mom, the kept ALOT of secrets from me, sort of like a nice car you buy and then you run a carfax on it, only to find out, it was flooded, not had 50,000 original miles on it, but way over 200,000 and the odometer had been changed twice and who knows what else. I remember when I was just 16, I felt like my dad was leaking info to me but never would tell me anything. I remember him alot, asking me if I ever had blood in my stool or diahreea(sp). I said no, I always go perfectly normal. Why is something going on i should know about? he said no, I'm just checking since you are under alot of stress at school and my stepmom was going to home schoolme.

Then I get the colitis when I was 19, hmmm, lol I of course when I was obsessed with electronics, mainly old wellmade stuff. I took a little interest in spying on my dad and stepmom and conversations with my dad and his mom. I was shocked at some stuff I recorded, but why they kept all kinds of secrets from me, I will never know and it still pisses me off, my Dad died in 1996 and took secrets to his grave that I may neverknow, his Mom also died in 199? and of course she and I hated each other, who knows what secrets she tookwith her.

So I'm stuck with a "lemon" like a pos car and my sad soul is stuck driving aroundin it until I die or jump in front of the metra lol. Dont worry, I'm not at risk for that, my special senses are the only thing keeping from that, there are certain protections built into everyone I think that keep that from happening. Hence failed suicide attempts gone horribly wrong with some people.

Back to something more positive to laugh about, me getting my life back with opium, I honestly feel right now that I just wish that guy in office would destroy the crazy in my opinion"harrison narcotics act of 190?", even the dea I think admitted that way back then before they knew anything about opium, this paper was just put in front of whoever was in office at time and he just signed away on it. Causing zillions of junkies to suffer since, and things keep looking worse and worse for "us". I could go on and on, but all this states how I really feel, I have a very strange body chemistry, I dont know if this is cool or not to give a website in here, if not, please delete the website then. I stumbled upon www.prohibitionkills.com a year or so ago.

I was shocked at how everything in it related to me, except the ldn, low dose naltrexone. I think already I told briefly about my very sad failed 1st detox at alexian bros hospital in the burbs, a bit of a drive for me. I was taken off subutex at noon after lunch was last dose, 12 noonlets say. Then at 6:30 pm a nurse gave me a very small cut in half part of naltrexone, which sent me within less than 20 mins into the worst wd's I ever felt, even coming off methadone was not as bad as that day or evening.

The nurses and my doctor there were shocked how I was so uncomfortable. I went home, quit the naltrexone the next day and it took over a week for me to get over it, then acute paws came right after, mr watson's limo saved the day and I was back on 120 10/500 norco's and in heaven in two weeks outta there. some people said, be VERY careful if you relapse now when you get outta there because naltrexone can "reset" your tolerance, or dull the receptors. well sadly I think it dulled them. When I was able to break free from my brother watching over me because I was lucky in a way I had a court date and my funny car to sell this one night, while my Mom was in another country on vacation for 2 weeks after I got outta detox.

I came home this night to sell my car and my brother said I could stay overnight at home because I had court coming up anyway. Well when I opened the front door which I luckily didn't lock, I only locked the main door, not the screen door, "like sunshine after rain" the fed ex envelope fell right at my feet when I opened up and I instantly asap unlocked the main door and rushed inside and yanked open mr watson and instantly took one pill. 20 mins, not much. I took 3 more, 20 mins, wow alot better, 3 more before bed. WOW I'm happy now and feel alive again.

I kept that secret from my brother cuz I knew he'd tellmy Mom when she called from overseas, she had a special calling card etc or something. Well I not only got a good lawyer but sadly it ticked him off since I waited till the day before court"not my fault I thought to myself", if only my special senses were able to get through sooner I would have called way sooner. But if it wasn't for mr watson to clear me up and get my sorry brain working again well, I never would have thought to call a lawyer and I'd be in jail still probably or worse.

I wont say what I was in huge trouble for, totally non drug related though, but had to do with me being in business partnership with the worst guy I wish I never met, every summer he still comes by my house strangely at just the right time when I'm out front cutting the grass and tries to sell me another junker car. I think I screwed myself and him by being so ignorant and stupid to believe the cops, fooling me into thinking if I turned him in that I may not even have to go to jail at all if I filledout an interrogation report on him and signed my life away that sad day I got busted going out onmy own when I decided I learned enough about "this business from him and payed dearly enough" that I can make it on my own just fine.

Oh well I screwed up a good money making deal, which I "might" still have been able to do on my own if only I had listened to the cops warning in the first place, yet like a dummy I did something I wasn't supposed to do AGAIN, UGGHHH, sometimes I want to killmyself, just destroy this junker so I can be freed from this "life sentence in a pos body", I know I will finally die someday, but honestly at this point in my life, I have never felt so hopeless before, I guess mainly because I've had the glorious taste of "freedom" through Opium.

I do have to admit that today was a very odd day, I mean "mayday monday" as I call it, is always supposed to mean something going wrong, yet my subs seemed to just holdme through the day without a nap even. However one important thing I left out, is I stopped taking my tegretol for a day or two before today. So I'm testing things out. I've always been that way, hence having to try to work around things or tweek stuff to get my junker mind to work right has always been the norm. Well I still say, ever since I test drove opiates, my life has changed for the better and I will always look back on that day.

I feel as though maintenance opies have always just been a way to "get by" until I can find a supply for a full agonist Opiate. I think I"m just now beginning to get the meaning and reason of why my subox doctor toldme when I was discharged this time after going from the tuff ride of methadone back to subs, that when he said "if its anyone in this whole state that knows more about methadone than anyone else, it would be him". I was so scared and just a wreck that night when discharged that I had all I could do to get home and get situated and rush to prepare myself and my Mom for the long ride to my colon specialist.

Things slowly are coming into place I think sometimes, I'm just like living in this pos body, having to deal with a "slow computer with a huge hard drive", yet I have a hell of a time working stuff out and understanding stuff near as fast as normal people do. I think alot of my rage has to do with that. Its like I can't killmyself so I have to smash something material that I dont care about anyway, or run outside and cuss and take it out on my neighbors I hate anyway. They are ignorant anyway too.

Well I think I better get to bed now, its 1 am and I'm not able to think that clearly now, but I think I got this story told pretty accurately about me and my situation. I think now if I just could only meet the right person I could trust, lol pretty impossible it seems these days, if we had alot in common, I think we would have a great time too.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:39 am 
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:( I'm really fed up today, I feel immobilized, worried and baffled like wtf is wrong with me or my body. My suboxone sadly just isn't working and I'm on what alot would consider a higher dose. I take one 8mg in the morning around 9 or 10am, then the last one around 4 to 6pm, because since I have no colon, it seems to work better that way as far as how long it lasts.

I feel like I'm one unlucky person physically and mentally, like my body chemistry sucks and I have physical problems and mental issues too. I'm 39 years too old, they say "you are only as old as you think you are", well I feel like I'm 50 or so and feel like I've been there, done this and that, had my fun and burnt every obsession I ever had into the ground of boredom to the point like it seems like there is nothing left to even have fun doing in life anymore.

Now I know that would change in a heartbeat if I could legally be put on whatever safe dose of pure hydrocodone or try oxycodone and slowly up my dose until I felt that "lovely opiate glow I crave so much". I didn't really realize at all at first when I started on methadone that there would even be a chance that it would turn out sooo bad, thanks to my lousy chemistry or physical condition. I do remember still feeling "good enough to at least function through the day", back a year ago in summer sometime when I got the bad news from my clinic.

My clinic doctor took me in his office and said "we need to do an ekg on you, I'm sorry we didnt get 2 u sooner but we usually do an ekg at least once a year on patients on 200mg mmt or more". I said oh no I hope something wont come up, because heart probs run in both sides of my family and my Mom had a triple bypass a year or 2 after sept 11 happened. He said well dont worry, you are young I dont see why you would have a problem. Sooo I had 2 options, either go to local heart doctor or hospital or pay $40 there and they'd do it. SO outta convenience I paid $40 and had it done there.

I asked the lady nurse who I didn't see often there how it looked and she said"I dont see anything major" but your doctor will tell you the results tomorrow. Well I got bad news next day, he said I had to go to a cardiologist, well great I thought I'll just see my mom's heart doc, I did and he did an ekg and I showed him the one I had done at the clinic and he said"what? that sounds crazy to me, soundslike they are more worried about lawsuits etc". He said your ekg looks just like most normal people, he had a funny type of humor like me. He said"you are basically like a perfect 747 with 3 backup wires for plenty of protection against your heart just stopping". I said lol, well I wonder why the doc at the clinic is so worried about this skip in my heartbeat?

He said, I have no clue, I can talk to him and find out, which he may have done I dont know. I just know he said that basically something about we all have 3 "wires" connected from our heart to the "main computer", he even said a few tiny voltages are present in each wire at all times. I said really, you mean there is a small current going through our body? he said yes, very little, but enough to send a signal basically to your brain that your heart is beating ok or not. Kind of like 3 protection measures like a little overkill to protect a plane from accidently just shutting down and plopping outta the sky. Well you have that kind of protection, one wire fails or breaks and you still have 2, if another goes, you still have 1, but if the last one goes out, you can have a heart attack or your heart will just stop beating andof course you will die.

I said "well is that what my doc at the clinic is so worried about?" my Mom's heart doc said, most likely from what you told me, yes it sounds like he is more worried about lawsuits etc than anything, especially if you told me he said to you that 2 out of 7 patients of his are the only ones who lived and are on pacemakers the rest of their lives. I said well what does that mean? am I a "goner" and they want to whisk me off mmt and get me "a liability risk outta there?", he said most likely not, they like most businesses just want more money and more patients. But since you abused your take homes once so far, he laughed and said "lol come on what were you thinking when u did that?", I lol and said "I'm sorry I just can't help that I'm obsessed with opiates and just want to keep that lovely opiate buzz going".

He just was like my Mom, no addiction in his family, my Mom has no addiction in her family, but very distant relatives of her do. He said I just dont understand what you mean about how you feel so great on opiates"me as a doctor, I've only had pain medicine maybe a few times in my life and I'm old enough to be your dad lol". I always just felt tired and drained when I took pain meds, I then said, that is so strange how all of us have different body chemistry, because my Mom gets same feeling with depression when she took just two lame 5/500 vicodins when she got shingles. I toldher how wellthey work for me and I begged her to give them to me when she didn't want em, she said "no way" and flushed poor mr watson down the toilet. I then put my head in the toilet and went OOOO HHHOOO as loud as I could in the bowl and it was so loud and funnny sounding. I of course didn't tell him I did that, but we briefly talked back and forth about how strange it is that I feel so great on opiates.

So after all was said and done, he faxed the copy of the ekg at his office tomy clinic doctor, he went over the results with me and said "nothinglooks any different". I said "well I'm worried, does that mean I have to go way down on my dose now and go back on suboxone"? he said well not way way down, but we need to lower you to 150mg, I waslike oh shit when he said that. That's when everything started going downhill and I figured wtf am I wasting my money here when I dont even feel like I'm taking any methadone at that dose. That's when I decided after the corrupt bullshit started to just ct off 150 and do the tough conversion from mmt to suboxone again.

Now here I sit at square one again and just wish my heart would stop beating and I would just not wake up again. I really feel that way at this point in my life, I hope my sad stories dont discourage anyone etc, but it seems like this forum is the only one that "tolerates me". I already got kicked off one opiate forum, and the only other one I go to besides this one just barely tolerates me and mostly ignores my posts and nobody responds much to my posts there so I just lurk mostly at both those sites just for info etc. Its not like I'm going to jump in front of the metra lol or anything but I feel totally hopeless right now and see no hope.

The special senses that I mentioned that I have, seem to be my only good thing going for me at this point. Sadly I keep getting hints that my doctor at the clinic was right, that subs will not work for me ever again like they did the first time due to tolerance. That if I made the switch which I've already done,that I would most likely wind up back at the mmt clinic, and it scares me a bit that my senses at this point are tellingme I'm stuck just like sorry but this pos keyboardis screwedup too that's why there are no spaces at times between words, sorry. My keyboard is the victim of my rage, I'm surprised it even still works at all after me punching my fist into it somany times.

Well into the shower I must go before I go to bed, if anyone here has any advice or clues to what the heck is going on with my chemistry, let me know. I'm especially shocked at how I can take xanax 2mg 1x daily and valium 20mg 2x daily and not have my subs way potentiated. I hear all the time how benzo's potentiate opies and the combo potentiates each other dangerously. Yet I can take said benzo's, same doses while I wason mmt and I nevernoticed any potentiation, very strange.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:07 pm
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sub is a diff beast..


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:07 pm
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writing is a helper for some, good music


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:39 pm
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MNPD
I've heard this from several people. I do believe it could be a liver issue. You also might not been at right dose obviously but right, where does it end? 400mg methadone and totally out of it, Not good.

My switch to sub is great. I am happy I chose this.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:40 pm 
Whoever is telling him sub will not work ever again because of tolerance is full of BS. You just have to get your tolerance down enough for bupe to work. Buprenorphine is a STRONG opioid it just doesnt cause euphoria and doesnt kill pain which is why many addicts (myself included) get frustrated by it and feel that its "not working" frequently. If you look through my posts on this site you will see a stark contrast between my attitude from day to day when Im posting. One day I will be depressed and craving saying sub isnt working and then on a different day all seems well and is going good. Like many have said suboxone is not an instant fix or miracle pill. I'm not one to talk tho Im switching from suboxone to methadone in the near future lol. I just know it will hold me better and even though its a full agonist Im not worried it will lead me back to relapsing on my drug of choice.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:07 pm
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been a week without subs aftr almost 1yrs, feel crappy takin vike 5mg 3-4 times a day with no help when will i not feel just a little crappy???? think kratom will help for a few days??


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:14 pm 
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forgot to mention i just had surgery 5 days ago double wammy!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:16 pm 
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i dont care about the days i just want to sleep a few hrs, ive been up for 4 days


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:14 am 
suboxdoc wrote:
ARM-ME, I totally agree. I am the opposite-- I recommend that people stay on Suboxone, and am frustrated by the occasional 22-y-o who is intent on being 'normal' again, off everything. I try to explain that 'normal' (if there is such a thing) is not an option-- I like to use the analogy of riding a bike and explain that even though I haven't ridden for years, there is no way for me to 'forget' how to ride. Addiction is a learned phenomenon, and it cannot be 'unlearned'. Not selectively, anyway... we used to say in the old anesthesia days that if a surgeon yelled 'oops' BEFORE the midazolam, there was no way to erase the memory... except hypoxia, which unfortunately reversed pretty much everything and so was not a great option.



wow... what little faith in the human spirit. I guess I am and way to many others I know are the exception. I do not struggle today, I am totally free of any opiate. Happy... not that I do not take care that I dont put myself in harms way but to say we can never recover.. just breaks my heart.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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