It is currently Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:35 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: I messed up big time
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:53 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:42 pm
Posts: 6
I thought it would be ok to stop my suboxone which was working perfectly for me. I guess I thought it would be easier to come off of opiates (Pain Medication) than suboxone. I stopped the suboxone and started Oxycodone the next day. A week later I stopped because I thought this is stupid and I need to go back to the suboxone.

Well, I woke up the morning after the last pain killers which was a week exactly that I stopped the suboxone. I woke up feeling like I had ants crawling on me, major anxiety and was so sick it was terrible.

I couldnt take any suboxone because it hadnt been 24 hours yet and I didnt want to get precipitated withdrawals.

I took the mental pain all day and took the suboxone that night. This is the 3rd day in a row that I have been so sick that I cant even go outside!. The suboxone isnt working so I am assuming that the Oxycodone was and still is not out of my system yet and reacting with the suboxone. It is helacious and I have my daughters 5th birthday party tomorrow.

I will be there even if I am shaking, sweating and cramping with anxiety from hell.

I was told I have precipitated withdrawals and my doctor said just take 8mgs a day until you start to feel better. He wants to see me on Monday .

Please someone give me some advice or hope or something. I am so sick and constant pressure in my chest. Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:12 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:35 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Philadelphia PA
How much OC did you take? ...and did you grind up or chew up the OC pill(s)?

_________________
I don't ever wanna feel like I did that day


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: toad please read!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:06 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:51 am
Posts: 8
toad i have made the same mistake as you have and want to let you know that your not the only one out there that has slipped up i promise. when i 1st started my suboxone treatments i was on 24mg.'s a day (and still am) and everytime my buddy got his o.c.80's i would stupidly buy his whole script off him so i understand why you slipped up. suboxone is a wonderful medication but there's no buzz from them like you get from oxy's and if your like me oxy's are the greatest thing since sliced bread. but i want you to know that i always used to jump right back on my subs when i burned through all my o.c.'s and only felt a little punk the 1st day back on suboxone so you should be fine in a day or two. hope my advice helped ya a little bit anyways. but i'm no dr. just a pillhead so i could be wrong :)


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:08 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:54 pm
Posts: 21
Precipitated withdrawal can be hell. I accidently threw myself into precip wd after taking fentanyl trandermally for a week. I took the patch off and waited 30 hours before dosing 4mg of suboxone. Evidently, the fent stays in your system quite a while because a deposit of fent under the skin may remain there for almost a day. Precip. wd was the WORST FEELING I'VE EVER HAD. I've been through run of the mill withdrawal for 10 years of my life and NOTHING EVEN TOUCHES THIS. It took me 48 hours to fully recover after being bedridden for most of that time. Ice cold with sweat dripping down your back, kicking legs, severe anxiety/blood pressure fluctuations, muscle twitches/cramps, diarrhea, etc. etc. x10!!! If you find yourself in this situation, do NOT take more suboxone. Wait at least 24 hours before redosing. It was a living hell. But definitely a lesson learned. I have to wait at least 80 hours before reinducing sub after using Fentanyl transdermally. As for oral morphine, I generally wait 36 hours just in case. I never want to go thru that again.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:46 am 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 1
How much Fentanyl were you using? And you said for about 7days? When you started taking Suboxone, were you having acute w/d symptoms? Or did you take it as a preventative measure?

The reason I ask is because I am going from Fentanyl transdermally to Suboxone. I have no OC left to get me through the 80 hrs after removing the patch, if indeed, it takes 80hrs to not induce w/d by taking Suboxone. I guess what I am asking is when you removed your Fentanyl patch, did you have w/d that day? or is it possible to get through the 4-5 day period without suffering. It was my understanding that regardless of how much residual Fentanyl there was in your depot (the skin underneath the patch) or left in your system, if you had w/d symptoms coming on hard that Suboxone would help.

Anybody else have experiences to share with Fentanyl patches and Suboxone?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:31 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:54 pm
Posts: 21
After taking off the patch and using its contents sublingually, I did not have any major withdrawal symptoms for three days. I felt crappy without having anything, but it was not acute withdrawal. So my mistake was using the 24 hour rule, which is just a rule of thumb. Please do not induce suboxone until you are in full withdrawal just to prevent another mistake like I did. Live and learn. Just goes to show that I shouldn't have been cheating to start with. I think the fent used transdermally stays in your system via right under the skin for at least 24 hours after removing the patch. You may react different. As soon as you get sick (make sure its not just a psychological deal) you can take bupe. The first day, you may experience some discomfort from switching over but day 2 is just fine. Good luck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:14 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:24 pm
Posts: 10
Heres my experience with Fentanyl and Suboxone.... After a week of Vegas hard partying and using fentanyl transdermally and just eating them I of course ran out of my stash earlier than my buddies and I had planned to leave the city. After a 24 hour period and not being able to beg some of the last remnants of my buddies patch covered bodies I decided to finally give in and take 4 mg of Suboxone while I drove everybody home. Precipitated withdrawal began to set in about 10 minutes after disolving entirely. Ive dealt with precipitated withdrawal before, mostly just from not being able to wait the 24 hrs after my last shot of heroin BUT THIS was a level of withdrawal pain higher than any I had felt before. I had to pull over and puke for awhile and get somebody else to drive b/c it wasnt safe for me to do so anymore. The drive from Vegas to my heroin dealers place took five hours and once there I shot a couple balloons and it releived me only somewhat that night and into the next day. Im not sure of the half life of fentanyl or the exact amount of time fentanyl remains under the skin after a patch is done but based on this experience and what Ive read from the above posts Id have to agree to wait AT LEAST a few days after my patch wore off to dose on ANY milligram amount of suboxone whatsoever no matter how badly I felt I needed it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:37 pm 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:05 am
Posts: 2
Here is what I know about sub and fentanyl. Be very careful. It's not so much about how long ago you took Fent but more about how high the Fent has pushed your tolerence. In my case (2 times) Fentanyl has caused terrible precipitated withdrawals. The first time after doing fent the night before (stupid) and the second time a whole 24hours before I took Suboxone! I then realized that Fentanyl is so damn strong that after 10 days straight of doing the 100mcg patches between my cheek and gums, my tolerance had risen to an unbelievable height, so high that i remember around the seventh day that when I placed about 1/4 of the patch (what used to be a scary amount) I barely felt it. What I learned and I still am scared of fent because of this is that you need to come back down by doing vicoden or lortab for at least 3 days to be safe and feel somewhat comfortable during that time. Hydrocodone is so much weaker i remember taking 2 lortabs 2 hours before my first suboxone induction and feeling quite high from the sub. Sub is so much stronger than Hydro but not near as strong as Fent and that's the problem. Moral to the story? Don't touch Fentanyl for any length of time unless you are prepared to wean back down on weaker opiates before going back to Suboxone. The back and forth game is not for those of weak constitution. Better yet, play it safe and stay on sub like you are supposed to! PWs could kill someone a weaker condition and I have the scars to prove it! It's just hard when Subs stop giving you that great buzz after a several months of maintenance. Good luck to all!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:46 am 
"When subs stop giving you that great buzz after several months of mainteanance" lol when do subs EVER give a great buzz? I felt nothing close to resembling a high even the first day of induction let alone several months later.


Top
  
 
   
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:04 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 9:08 pm
Posts: 248
Hey, Toad, i really hope your are feeling better by now. you are at least the second person ( third I think, actually) to have written about having trouble getting back on sub after a relapse. Well, I just wanted to say, yeah, relapses happen. This thread got onto a track about fentanyl but I re-read the original post and saw that you (Toad) said you did oxy's for a week. That doesnt' sound like that long to me but I guess it was long enough...I saw one of the responses you got advised you to NOT take more sub for at least 24 hours....but your doctor told you to take 8 mgs per day and that you ought feel ok within a day or 2, right? And today is Monday, so hopefully you had your doctor appointment and have gotten back on track more or less, I would really think by now you ought be doing better than you were when you posted on Friday. But I also noticed that you said you got on the oxys' because for some reason you thought it would be easier to get off oxy than sub...I guess you were thinking you wanted to do a rapid taper and stop taking sub to treat your addiction, hoping that you could be fine without sub? Were you planning on tapering off the oxy but then you found you werent' able to follow your tapering plan? I can sure understand that. I have never ever ever been able to follow through with a tapering plan on any opiate...I always want to take more each day, not less. Like I said, you're not alone by any means, and I just hope you're feeling better and doing ok back on your sub now. If and when you decide it's time to taper of your sub, then hopefully you will have good advice and support from your doctor with it. In the meantime, sub really really does make it easier to get addiction into remission, and I dont' think anyone should have to feel any shame about taking sub. And also, I dont' have hardly any experience with either oxy or fentanyl but I've relapsed a lot on heroin and always just got right back on my sub the next day and pretty much felt ok. I've never had the PW but then, I guess all my relapses were really brief, though for a while, I'm sorry to say, they were happening frequently. but yeah, fentanyl seems to be about the strongest opiate around so maybe it's different..though it seems to me that the length of time one was relapsing on a different opiate is what makes the difference between getting PW from taking sub too soon or not. If you relapse for 1 to 3 days which was mostly what my relapses were, then maybe you can get right back on sub with no problem like I always have...but then, yeah, I guess the transdermal fentanyl stays in your system longer than heroin or other opiates and that will make a big difference--it's like you're still on the fentanyl for several more days after you take the patch off, form the sound of what people are saying. But too, people don't all have the exact same experiences with opiates and WD--and I guess that is a matter of individual body chemistry as well as tolerance levels, type of opiates used, etc.

As for anybody ever getting any kind of high from sub--the thing is yeah, actually many people report that for the first few days or sometimes weeks it makes them feel high. And for opiate naive people (that is, someone with no tolerance to opiates) the opiate effect of sub is very very strong. So strong that an opiate naive person will probably get sick form anything more than a very small dose of sub. I know that many other people also report that they never ever felt any kind of high from sub--it just, from day one on, took away their WD symptoms and nothing else. So...it seems to depend, on the things I mentioned above, I bet tolerance has a lot to do with it, but then one member of this forum reported that even though at the time he first got on sub he had a high tolerance for his DOC (heroin, I think) that for the first week (or more?) he was basically 'drooling on himself" high on the sub. And for me....when I first started on sub I knew NOTHING about it, I'd never even heard of it before. I also didnt' have much of a tolerance--I was doing pretty small amounts of heroin and not every day--i was pretty much dancing at the edge of physical dependency at that point. The doctor told me that sub blocked opiates and would not get me high and i will tell you I was very surprised when I took my first dose. It wasnt' EXACTLY the same as doing heroin, but i sure felt high--I felt dizzy and mentally impaired, maybe worse than when I just did a little heroin. The sub also gave me insomnia (heroin also has always kept me awake) and after a couple of days i found that i was nodding off and on all night long just like when i did heroin...then it gave me a terrible terrible headache exactly like the kind I would get from time to time from doing too much heroin when I was in full addiction. I called my doctor a couple of days into it and reported feeling high and impaired. He said that shouldn't happen but sometiems it does, and recommended I go down from 4 mgs to 2 mgs. I did and it didnt' seem to make any difference. I called my doctor again and by this time I understood a little more about sub, form looking into it on my own, I now knew that bupe is a partial opiate agonist and naloxone is an opiate blocker so I asked my doctor could I maybe just take the naloxone so I could just have the opiate blocker part? He prescribed me naltrexone but I never took it...I can't tell you why. I just kept taking sub...because...even though I hadn't expected it to get me high, well, it got me high...for over a month....so...maybe that was because i didnt' have a high opiate tolerance when I started but like I said, others have reported that they felt high from sub at the beginning even though they had a high opiate tolerance because they had been taking high doses of their DOC. You know, because my doctor told me I would not get high from it, and I had never even heard of sub before, I sure wasnt' expecting it to have that effect on me..I didn't know WHAT was going on....and even though I asked him to switch me to a different med to block opiates and he did...well, it didnt' work out that way. I'm still on sub a year and a half later. So....well, sub is kind of misunderstood by a lot of doctors I guess and I think there are some factors involved in how it affects people. It's just funny to me to hear someone say "when did anyone ever get any kind of high from sub, that's crazy!" But yeah, once you've been taking it a while and get past the ceiling effect, then it doesn't affect you like that and you can't get high on it not matter what you do--at least, that's the case for me. I still have the damn naltrexone, I filled the script a year and a half ago and never once took it. I wonder if I'll ever be at a point where I could take naltrexone instead of suboxone...But you know...my doctor didnt' even give me any cautions abvout the naltrexone, that it would make me go into WD or anything, though he seemed disappointed that I ended up on sub maintenance instead of tapering off the sub or taking naltrexone instead. But if he wanted me to taper off the sub, I dont' know why he gave me 3 refills on my initial prescription. Anyway, I'm not actually complaining here, just recalling my experience which I guess has not been exactly typical (to get on sub when I had never even heard of it, when on the other hand there are people on waiting lists for sub doctors and sub programs)Anyway, I am pretty certain I have been better off in the last couple of years with sub treatment than I would have been without it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:54 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Just wanted to point out that this thread is from April 2008, in case you don't get a response.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Sub High
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:15 pm 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:05 am
Posts: 2
Yeah, I know it's hard to believe, but subs gave me a good buzz and tons of energy for more than 6 months. Of course, I never told my Dr. that and I was taking larger amounts toward the end, now i just take 16mg a day cause it makes no difference if I take more. I think I am gonna try to get by on 8mg a day next month and see how it goes. My only concern is that I had mild to moderate anxiety before opiates (one reason why I became addicted) and the Sub takes it away. If I find out that I have anxiety off sub then it's better for me to be on some dosage of it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: sub high/no wonder
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:49 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 9:08 pm
Posts: 248
Ah, thank you Hat for pointing out that this is an OLD thread...I only check the new posts so i just assumed it was current and dind't check the dates on the original or older posts. But about the sub high...6 months sounds like a really unusually long time that someone would be feeling high from sub...my guess is you (Hector) didn't stablize to above the ceiling level for some reason? I wonder, were you taking a very low dose at first? In my case, i think i was below the ceiling level--it's normal to feel something at first, even if you're taking 4 mgs or more because it might take time for your receptors to get saturated...but when i told my doctor how i was feeling he told me to take LESS sub and that didn't help me get above the ceiling level. but I was getting high on 2 mgs for some weeks. when the effect started to taper off i upped my dose to 4 mgs on my own--at that point, I think it was about a month after I started on sub, I would feel high from a 4 mg dose but it seemed like it was wearing off quicker Actually, now that i think of it, yeah, I was still feeling high form the sub for more than one month. I'm not sure how long really. but after some time 4 mgs didn't make me feel high anymore and then i tried taking 8 mgs, dosing more often, etc, but at some point it just didn't have any effect anymore--I guess when I finally reached the ceiling effect. And THEN I started relapsing on my DOC. So actually, I'm interested to finally hear about someone who's had some similar experience with sub as i have, because it does not seem to be the norm. I can't say for sure that it would have made any differenc in how things went down for me, but I do wish my doctor had been monitoring my situation a bit more and talked to me more about dosage...but honestly, he seems not to know much about dosage issues. I really do like my doctor thoujgh, and I think he's still learning about sub too, actually he said that to me at one point, that he was "still learning."


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:18 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:25 am
Posts: 4
HECTOR44 wrote:
Here is what I know about sub and fentanyl. Be very careful. It's not so much about how long ago you took Fent but more about how high the Fent has pushed your tolerence. In my case (2 times) Fentanyl has caused terrible precipitated withdrawals. The first time after doing fent the night before (stupid) and the second time a whole 24hours before I took Suboxone! I then realized that Fentanyl is so damn strong that after 10 days straight of doing the 100mcg patches between my cheek and gums, my tolerance had risen to an unbelievable height, so high that i remember around the seventh day that when I placed about 1/4 of the patch (what used to be a scary amount) I barely felt it. What I learned and I still am scared of fent because of this is that you need to come back down by doing vicoden or lortab for at least 3 days to be safe and feel somewhat comfortable during that time. Hydrocodone is so much weaker i remember taking 2 lortabs 2 hours before my first suboxone induction and feeling quite high from the sub. Sub is so much stronger than Hydro but not near as strong as Fent and that's the problem. Moral to the story? Don't touch Fentanyl for any length of time unless you are prepared to wean back down on weaker opiates before going back to Suboxone. The back and forth game is not for those of weak constitution. Better yet, play it safe and stay on sub like you are supposed to! PWs could kill someone a weaker condition and I have the scars to prove it! It's just hard when Subs stop giving you that great buzz after a several months of maintenance. Good luck to all!


Sorry I see that this is an old post. However what this guy said seems most logical to me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sub High
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:20 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:08 am
Posts: 1503
HECTOR44 wrote:
Yeah, I know it's hard to believe, but subs gave me a good buzz and tons of energy for more than 6 months. Of course, I never told my Dr. that and I was taking larger amounts toward the end, now i just take 16mg a day cause it makes no difference if I take more.


The first time I took Subutex, I felt awesome as well. I honestly thought it was like a 24 hour opioid buzz, and I only had to pay 5$ a day. I didn't tell my doctor either. 9 years later I see that period on Subutex actually made me more dependent on opioids long term, because my tolerance actually increased overall as the dose got pushed up. Long term result? It's now harder for me to live without opioids. But not impossible.

So there are ramifications to taking more Suboxone than we need IMO.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Sub High
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:37 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:47 am
Posts: 939
Location: Southeastern US (Alabama)
tearj3rker wrote:
HECTOR44 wrote:
Yeah, I know it's hard to believe, but subs gave me a good buzz and tons of energy for more than 6 months. Of course, I never told my Dr. that and I was taking larger amounts toward the end, now i just take 16mg a day cause it makes no difference if I take more.


The first time I took Subutex, I felt awesome as well. I honestly thought it was like a 24 hour opioid buzz, and I only had to pay 5$ a day. I didn't tell my doctor either. 9 years later I see that period on Subutex actually made me more dependent on opioids long term, because my tolerance actually increased overall as the dose got pushed up. Long term result? It's now harder for me to live without opioids. But not impossible.

So there are ramifications to taking more Suboxone than we need IMO.


For me, it's hard to tell the difference because i have legitimate pain that Suboxone helps me with. It doesn't make the pain seem not-present, but it does make it tolerable, which is why I like suboxone. So someone with a back problem would still know they have a back problem with suboxone...instead of like with Opiates where people re-injure themselves because they can't tell they are hurting. I can still tell that I'm hurting, and still feel it..but just can manage it better.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group