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 Post subject: Messed up bad....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:31 am 
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So I really messed up. I decided to take a sub to get high after being off of it for 3 months and after rapid detox. Since then I've been taking for about 10 days now. I def feel dependent. I've tried going through the entire day without and couldn't because I have to be functional at work. If I didn't have to go to work I would just deal with it. I need some advice on how to proceed. I don't want to keep taking the subs. I have a bottle of vikes that I was thinking about taking to get off the subs. I'm taking about a mg a day. Should I take the vikes? Should I just decrease the sub dose? I only have the 8mg films and tablets, so I can't really break them any smaller. If I just jump off, how long will I feel like shit? It's weird that I was dependent again after only 10 days. Maybe because I still had some in my system from before I went to rapid detox? I need an action plan to get off this and fast. Please help.


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 Post subject: Re: Messed up bad....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:25 pm 
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Honestly, I think the vikes are a bad idea. I know for me personally, I wouldn't be able to control a vike taper. Some can, but its just a tricky position to put yourself in. I would decrease your sub amount over the next week or so. I don't think 10 days of use will bring you horrible wds seeing that you haven't used anything for 3 months. Quickly taper off and time your last dose right before the weekend when you have 2 days to see how you are feeling. I would also evaluate what led you back to wanting to get high after 3 months clean so you are aware what triggered the relapse and try to work through it so you don't relapse again after you taper off subs. For me, I have a very open line of communication with my husband and we talk about my day, if anything made me think about using, my sobriety, my goals, etc EVERY DAY. I haven't thought about using, nothing so far has caused me to crave drugs and it gives me perspective on where I am at. It helps to have someone you can talk to and reach out to just in case. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Messed up bad....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:35 pm 
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I would offer a second on staying away from the vicodins. I had a recent relapse, less than 3 weeks ago, after having over 5 years clean with hydrocodone. I was going to use the hydro to help taper the last of my sub use and got out of control VERY quickly.

I started with just a couple and by the end of the weekend I was taking over 100 mg a day. I went through over 150 pills in just under 2 weeks which made my detox off subs way more difficult. If it were me, I would as trainer said just taper off the subs. Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Messed up bad....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:38 pm 
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chaz wrote:
So I really messed up. I decided to take a sub to get high after being off of it for 3 months and after rapid detox. Since then I've been taking for about 10 days now. I def feel dependent. I've tried going through the entire day without and couldn't because I have to be functional at work. If I didn't have to go to work I would just deal with it. I need some advice on how to proceed. I don't want to keep taking the subs. I have a bottle of vikes that I was thinking about taking to get off the subs. I'm taking about a mg a day. Should I take the vikes? Should I just decrease the sub dose? I only have the 8mg films and tablets, so I can't really break them any smaller. If I just jump off, how long will I feel like shit? It's weird that I was dependent again after only 10 days. Maybe because I still had some in my system from before I went to rapid detox? I need an action plan to get off this and fast. Please help.

Hey Chaz,
First of all, forgive yourself. Shit happens, and good for you for catching yourself fairly quickly and reaching out for help! Good for you! :D
Yeah, I agree with Trainer- I'd flush the vikes fast- sounds like just prolonged pain to me....
but just my opionn.
I'm a bit confused- are you taking 8mg strips or tablets? How many mgs daily? I was able to continue to split the 8mg strips very small up to peices that were just .125 mgs. But I think once you get under .5mgs the wdls are very similar. I don't think you will have a very difficult wdl period anyway after being clean for 3 months and only a 10 day "slip". Just don't let 10 days turn into 20, or 50 or 100 or.....KWIM?
Good luck!!
:D BF

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 Post subject: Re: Messed up bad....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:16 pm 
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Hi Chaz, were you keeping the bottle of vikes around after getting off Subs? When we addicts do sh*t like that, it can be a sign that we're not really committed to sobriety yet. Don't need a Plan B if Plan A is all or nothing. Only you can answer that for yourself, but I can say that if you're not committed to it, sobriety won't work.

What's your Subs dose? Trainer jumped from 2 mg/day, and stayed functional enough to keep working through the early days of her detox.

Good luck.

-- ji

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 Post subject: Re: Messed up bad....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:14 pm 
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I thought rapid detox removed everything...I keep reading it does not and later on, as with many opiate addicts, they pick up again.
Chaz ive seen ya arou d the forums awhile. Sorry ykur having a tuf time right now.
Active addiction is hard to break, and as johnny said plan a isnt working now.
Sub therapy may be the way to go at this point.
We all wish that we could be Drug free, and you got 3 months, but we are talking a lifetime here..
Taking vikes to move off of sub rarely works if ever. (Nothings impossible), but a better plan is needed..imo


razor56


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 Post subject: Re: Messed up bad....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:25 pm 
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I also took 1mg/day for 10 days a couple of months ago because my doc was having me try it as an antidepressant. (I used to be on Maintenence 16 mg/ day - stopped 18 months ago). I just stopped - probably felt foggy/ tired for a couple of days. If you have weekends off you could take 1mg again tomorrow and then recoup Sat. & Sun.

I def wouldn't use the vikes. Like others have said, I relapsed taking a "few" vikes the first time I tried getting off Sub. Full agonists can get you really fast, and it sounds like you already had the urge to get high.

Or maybe you want to consider going back on a low maintenence dose if you're having trouble staying away from the opiates? Don't beat yourself up. We're addicts. Most of us have done stuff like this. The important thing is to get back on track before it becomes a bigger problem.

Good luck,
Lilly


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 Post subject: Re: Messed up bad....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:26 pm 
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Thank you all for the reply's, it has really motivated me. I was on subs for 7 years at 12-24mg's daily. I got down to 12mg's and hit a wall. I went to rapid detox and then was clean for 3 months while taking Naltrexone. I stopped the Naltrexone because I didn't want to take any pills at all. BAD idea. I have both the strips and the pills of subs. I bought the vikes after I got back on the subs for a way to have an easy WD. From what you are all saying it's not a good idea. So I'm not going down that path. I do have weekends off. I took about 1.5mg's today. I need to get off of this quick so it doesn't build up in my brain. Any suggestions on the taper plan? Should I try to end dosing tomorrow? I have a big exam on Saturday and need to be sharp for it. BTW, the subs do stay in your system for a very long time. I was pissing dirty at the sub doc for 3 months while being off of subs. I still go to get the pills and give them to my buddy that can't get them. Again the responses are greatly appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: Messed up bad....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:26 pm 
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Here is what I would do...it may not be right for you of course, but this would be my plan.
Not sure if you are "stable' at 1.5mgs, but if you are, I would jump right now before 10 days becomes 11. You will be "sub free" for 10 days before you know it, and you will most likely be feeling "ok" (not "great" but not horrible either) after 3-4 days max. Maybe we are "meant' to feel uncomfortable after jumping to help motivate us not to use again....maybe it was just too easy coming out of that detox relatively painlessly? IDK? (except for your wallet- ha ha ha)
Now, if as JI said you are really not ready for sobriety, maybe that is not a good plan. If those vikes are calling your name and you just can't get rid of them...if there is a good chance they could lead to something more destructive..then I'd re-think that plan. Maybe subs are what you need right now? IDK? But man, after going to that extreme detox, and so much 'clean' time...I would just get off the subs, and get myself into a good recovery program asap before it gets more difficult to stop.
whatever you decide, keep posting and I'm sure you'll find support here!
BF

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 Post subject: Re: Messed up bad....
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:02 pm 
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I have to agree with BF, if you're sure you want to get off the Subs I would just stop now. I took 1-2mg/day for about 10 days and just stopped with no real reprocussions. (I was supposed to be taking 1mg/day but I kept taking a 2nd dose. That's why I stopped - my addictive tendencies kicked right back in). It was nothing at all like going off of 16mg after being on maintenence for 3 1/2 years. It's my understanding that doses under 2 mg don't build up in your system like the high doses do (Dr. Junig mentioned that in one of his blog posts).

But if you're going back to abstinence without naltrexone, you're really going to need to work a recovery program and get some support. And stop picking up pills for your pal! Not saying that to be a jerk, just passing on what I learned by messing up a bunch of times.


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 Post subject: Re: Messed up bad....
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:00 pm 
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Thanks all. I took my last dose of subs yesterday morning at 6:00AM at 1.5MG or so. It's been about 30 hours now and I don't feel to bad. I hope it doesn't get worse. I've never felt a sub WD. I just felt the rapid detox effects. How long do I need to wait to take my Naltrexone again? I wish I would have never stopped taking it.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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