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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:07 pm 
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I had got 5 8mg strips from a friend and for some damn reason I thought if I took 1 strip it would mellow me out and take away a major head ache that I was having. I took the strip and about 5 minutes later I thought I was going to die :shock: ... Freezing cold shakes, vomiting, diarrhea,the WORST withdrawal symptoms I have EVER had... I almost called an ambulance... It has been 21 hours and I am STILL sick! :oops:

I have been on 70mg's of methadone daily for 4 years. I only took 8mg's suboxone, how long is that 8mg's going to hang on until I re stabilize on my methadone? Is there ANYTHING I can do or take to speed up getting the suboxone out of my system? I would not wish this on my worst enemy...

NEVER, EVER, EVER MIX SUBOXONE WITH METHADONE IT WILL START IMMEDIATE WITHDRAWAL! :(


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:34 pm 
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Ugh, so sorry...I had the exact same thing happen; took the strip way too soon after my last fix. I, too, thought I was going to die. Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything that will get the suboxone out of your body any faster. :( Sucks that it's lasted so long, too...if it's been 21 hours, hopefully the worst is nearly over. Hope you feel better ASAP.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:01 pm 
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I just switched to methadone about 4 5 weeks ago and flushed all my left over suboxone for this adsact reason because if the methadone did not work well the first few days maybe i would take the sub but than realized that was not smart. it was hard i flushed about 80 pills and 60 films downt he toilet i was thinking about how many people are having so much trouble affording meds and would of loved to give them away but i am not going to jail so i had to get rid of them.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:39 pm 
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The suboxone (buprenorphine) knocked the methadone (a full agonist opiate) off the receptors in your brain. You're suffering precipitated withdrawals. There's really nothing you can do except to ride it out. Do not take any more suboxone. You're just going to have to hang on until it passes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:27 am 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
The suboxone (buprenorphine) knocked the methadone (a full agonist opiate) off the receptors in your brain. You're suffering precipitated withdrawals. There's really nothing you can do except to ride it out. Do not take any more suboxone. You're just going to have to hang on until it passes.


Its been 29 hours now and I am STILL sick! Why is information about this so hard to find? As bad as it is you would think there would be tons of info? They should have it printed on those strip packages in HUGE BOLD LETTERS to NOT take if on METHADONE!

I had my 70mg dose for today, 9 hours after taking the 8mg suboxone and didnt feel it at all! Now I go in tomorrow, in 6 hours from now for 70mg more of methadone... WHEN IS THIS 8 mg's OF SUBOXONE GOING TO WEAR OFF?

Here is the timeline so far...

7:00pm took 8mg suboxone ( 5 minutes later thought I was going to die!)

10:30pm shot $30 worth heroin ( I was so sick I though I might die so was trying anything to make it stop, didnt feel it!)

4:00am took 70mg methadone (My carry dose.) ( I was so sick I took it hoping it would help, didnt even feel it!)

10:30am shot $30 more heroin ( I was so out of it by them I dont know if I felt it or not!)

2:00pm shot $30 more heroin ( I was able to fall asleep for an hour but when I woke I was still sick!)

1:00am ( I am writing this and I am still sick!)

7:00am ( I get another 70mg dose of methadone, do you think I will feel it at all? This will be 36 hours from when I took the 8mg suboxone...)

This was such a horrible, horrible thing to experience...

I hate to say this but my mom was one of the test patience for methadone at a hospital in Lexington, Kentucky back in 1972/73 when they were first doing the testing for it... Narcotics have been in my family my entire life. I was one of the test patience for buprenorphine in Seattle when they were doing to pilot program... I have had years clean before, I have been to 2 N.A. World Conventions, San Jose and San Diego and am on a speaker tape from P.N.W.C.N.A. when it was up in Canada... You think I dont feel bad for having relapsed AGAIN and then getting back on methadone (My habit was going to put me back in prison if I didnt get back on methadone) so now here I am after being back on methadone for almost ANOTHER 5 YEARS! You would think if anyone I would have known about this suboxone methadone mix :oops: but I swear I had NO IDEA! I can remember using when I was taking suboxone and I never got sick...

But never had I taken suboxone after being on methadone for this long at this high dose and those are the factors that have played into this horrific nightmare I am now experiencing... Man, this is horrible, PLEASE someone with some experience and knowledge about this tell me how long this 8mg suboxone is going to hold on to me, when I dose again 70mg methadone in 6 hours will I feel it then?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:34 am 
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Suboxone has an AVERAGE half life of 37 hours, so yes, it's very long-acting. When a person already has suboxone in their system and takes a full agonist, nothing happens because sub is already occupying the receptors. This is why you were able to do it before with no problems. However, when someone is already on full agonists - like methadone - and those are attached to the receptors and you take suboxone, it knocks the full agonists off the receptors. Suboxone has quite an affinity for those receptors. This is what causes p/w.

People who are prescribed suboxone are instructed on how to use them. As you can see, it's not a good idea to just try to use them recreationally.

Anyway, you'll just have to wait it out. I wouldn't take anything more until you feel better.

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 Post subject: Hours, please...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:40 am 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
Suboxone has an AVERAGE half life of 37 hours, so yes, it's very long-acting. When a person already has suboxone in their system and takes a full agonist, nothing happens because sub is already occupying the receptors. This is why you were able to do it before with no problems. However, when someone is already on full agonists - like methadone - and those are attached to the receptors and you take suboxone, it knocks the full agonists off the receptors. Suboxone has quite an affinity for those receptors. This is what causes p/w.

People who are prescribed suboxone are instructed on how to use them. As you can see, it's not a good idea to just try to use them recreationally.

Anyway, you'll just have to wait it out. I wouldn't take anything more until you feel better.


"has a half life of 37 hours"

"anyway, youll just have to wait it out"

37 hours for how many mg's? I am looking for a rough estimate on how long 8mg is going to block my receptors from feeling my methadone dose... All the other about not using recreationally... DUHHHH... Please dont make this any worse, thanks...

I AM LOOKING FOR SOMEONE THAT KNOWS HOW LONG 8 MG'S LASTS? I HAVE BEEN ON 70MG METHADONE 4 YEARS EVERYDAY AND ONLY TOOK 8MG'S OF SUBOXONE...HOW LONG TILL I FEEL MY METHADONE DOSE AGAIN? IN HOURS...

THANKS


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:45 am 
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What the half life means is that on average, in approx 37 hours, there will still be half of it in your system, and so on and so on. You can do the math. Since you only took one dose, you won't have the stacking effect, just the half life of taking one 8 mg dose.

I'm sorry I can't be more specific, but it's the best I've got.

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 Post subject: "You can do the math"
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:57 am 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
What the half life means is that on average, in approx 37 hours, there will still be half of it in your system, and so on and so on. You can do the math. Since you only took one dose, you won't have the stacking effect, just the half life of taking one 8 mg dose.

I'm sorry I can't be more specific, but it's the best I've got.


"You can do the math"

It still makes no sense to me...

So after 37 hours I have the equivalent of 4mg suboxone? Is that for the Buprenorphine or the Naloxone?

Thats why I am asking for someone that has more experience and knowledge about this specific drug it is complicated, does the Naloxone wear off faster than the Buprenorphine? I know it is all estimates because each persons metabolism is different but it will be 36 hours from taking the 8mg to this next 70mg Methadone dose, I want to know if I am going to be able to feel it at all or not? Regardless I appreciate you trying to help me and I hope I am not coming off as a jerk, I feel HORRIBLE so please forgive me... :oops:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:13 am 
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diGGer, Sorry about your issue, but a "Thank you" ever once in a while in your posts would be nice, the people who run this forum are so caring and helpful.. the best lessons in life are always learned the hard way, I hope your feeling better by now... Mike


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:15 am 
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OK, the naloxone has nothing to do with the P/W you experienced. The naloxone only causes P/W if someone injects/shoots the suboxone. Otherwise, the kind of P/W you are experiencing is from the bupeprenorphine ("bupe") knocking the methadone off your opiate receptors.

The way the half life works is, in this case, after about 37 hours, half is left in your system, so it would be 4 mg. Then in another half life there's about 2 mg left, and in another half life, 1 mg left, and so on and so on. Does that make more sense?

No one can tell you for sure how long you'll have to wait before you feel better. Because for one - everyone is different and for two - that half life I spoke of is an average of 37 hours. Because it's an average, it can stay in your system as little as 20 hours or as long as 70 hours.

There's just no magic formula to give you that will offer you a specific time of when you will feel better. I'm sorry I can't be more specific.

Hopefully someone who's been through P/W will see your post and chime in with their experience. Feel better soon.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:23 am 
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Painter wrote:
diGGer, Sorry about your issue, but a "Thank you" ever once in a while in your posts would be nice, the people who run this forum are so caring and helpful.. the best lessons in life are always learned the hard way, I hope your feeling better by now... Mike


You obviously didnt read my posts? Or you would have seen;

"Man, this is horrible, PLEASE someone with some experience and knowledge about this tell me how long this 8mg suboxone is going to hold on to me"

"THANKS"

"Regardless I appreciate you trying to help me and I hope I am not coming off as a jerk, I feel HORRIBLE so please forgive me..."


Are you just trying to stir up some drama? If so please save it, THANK YOU!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:29 am 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
OK, the naloxone has nothing to do with the P/W you experienced. The naloxone only causes P/W if someone injects/shoots the suboxone. Otherwise, the kind of P/W you are experiencing is from the bupeprenorphine ("bupe") knocking the methadone off your opiate receptors.

The way the half life works is, in this case, after about 37 hours, half is left in your system, so it would be 4 mg. Then in another half life there's about 2 mg left, and in another half life, 1 mg left, and so on and so on. Does that make more sense?

No one can tell you for sure how long you'll have to wait before you feel better. Because for one - everyone is different and for two - that half life I spoke of is an average of 37 hours. Because it's an average, it can stay in your system as little as 20 hours or as long as 70 hours.

There's just no magic formula to give you that will offer you a specific time of when you will feel better. I'm sorry I can't be more specific.

Hopefully someone who's been through P/W will see your post and chime in with their experience. Feel better soon.


Hopefully someone that has had this same experience will see my posts and let me know what their experience was... You would think there would be allot of information about this as horrible as it is, I have been looking online all night and have seen everything from it lasting only minutes to weeks... It should be printed in big bold letters on those Suboxone strip packs "DO NOT TAKE WITH METHADONE WILL CAUSE IMMEDIATE WITHDRAWALS"

Man, what a HUGE mistake I have made... I am still very sick... Again THANK YOU for your help...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:39 pm 
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I am still sick, it feels like "cotton fever" with cold chills etc... I did take my 70mg methadone dose at 9:30am and then slept for 2 hours but upon waking I still feel terrible but the worst is behind me... When this first came on I swear I thought there was a good chance I could die... This has been one of the biggest mistakes I have ever made, the first was ever getting on any drugs to begin with... I will be 50 years old in January and my entire life has been on the roller coaster... I was born to a heroin addicted mother and I began that negative life style early in my life being convicted of armed robbery when I was 13 which led me to 16 more years thrown away behind bars... I have been off parole for 21 years now which is a miracle in itself... Its not ALL doom and gloom but anyone that knows about being on methadone it is masking and distorting my visions of reality... So what seems normal to me now looking at the very same thing clean I would have a totally different opinion...

I lost my entire family within 4 months in 2006, my mom and dad had a fire which led to being placed in a care home and my dad hugged my mom as he died of a heart attack so them mom wanted to move somewhere else so I moved her 100 miles south to be closer to my sister and grandparents, 1 month later my sister died of a massive heart attack them mom began to get sick from her diabetes, she was on methadone the last 15 years of her life... She had to be placed in ICU and my grandparents were staying at the hospital 24/7 the last 7 days my mom was alive... When I got home there was a message on my answering machine for me to come back to the hospital, on the way home my grandpa pulled out in front of a semi truck and it killed them both...

I had been clean for a few years then and during all that my girlfriend of 3 years had relapsed and the rest is history, went to shooting dope to doing everything that entails heading right back to prison I made the life saving choice to get back on methadone... Now trapped once again in the never ending saga... I remember being 18 and at Sea Dru Nar in Seattle thinking "I dont want to be 40 and strung out" and here I am 50 and strung out... I am not on my pitty pot just giving you a little history... Man, it should be printed in HUGE letters on that suboxone "IF ON METHADONE DO NOT TAKE" this has been the very worst sickness I have ever had by far bar none...

I need to pray and ask for forgiveness and strength to once again "GET OVER MYSELF"... 11th step... I havent went to a meeting in years... The main nooner where I live is 1 block from my home... I am my own worst enemy...

Thank you to anyone reading that is thinking at least I am not pissing up a rope or trying to bullshit anyone... I am thankful for online recovery rooms they have been such a big part of my journey and I know of others that have been saved by using them as a stepping stone to their recovery... I made my own bed and I have no one else to blame...

I do know that there is a great life to be had without the use of drugs but in order to maintain that I must be responsible and maintain that on a daily basis... I am disappointed in myself... Hopefully I wont be as sick in the morning...


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 Post subject: SUNDAY AND STILL SICK!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:45 pm 
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I cant believe its Sunday and I am still having withdrawal symptoms!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:09 am 
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Are you still taking your daily methadone? You really should be feeling better by now. Other than these last few days, are you happy with Methadone, or were you thinking about switching to ?
I'm truly sorry you're going through this, and I am in no way saying this to bust your ass, but when you get Sub from a pharmacy it usu. comes with a package insert and a big printout from the pharmacy that does say not to take it after full agonists (methadone or other narcotics).
Anyway, whether you stay on methadone or try Sub, there are lots of people here who can relate to the wreckage of your past and the family history of drug abuse. So feel free to stick around the forum and talk about recovery with everyone here.
Feel better,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:15 am 
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I'm sorry you're still feeling shitty. Do you feel any better this morning? If not yet, you should start to feel better very soon.
Did you get a chance to read Dr. Junig's blog post about P/W? It's here: http://suboxonetalkzone.com/2008/12/07/ ... -now-what/

It's more directed at people suffering from P/W when trying to induce onto suboxone, so it's a bit different than your situation, but reading that post might help you to understand the situation a bit better.

Just wanted to check in on you and see how you are doing. Take care.

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 Post subject: diGGer !!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:35 am 
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I apologize if I came off like an ass about the " Thank you" thing.... I truly do hope you start to feel better, this the place to be, Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:09 am 
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Digger. I feel for ya dude. I too was a sucker for punishment once and took naltrexone while on about the same dose of Methadone. It was painful, very much so. The screams woke up the neighbours and my back was bending so hard I thought it'd snap. Naltrexone lasts about 24 hours. Sub a lil bit longer, but not much.

And seriously, naloxone doesn't mean anything in this equation. You can take Subutex (buprenorphine without naloxone) and you'll still be feeling just as sick. It's pretty much just the buprenorphine which is kicking the methadone off your receptors. But at least buprenorphine gives you a bit of opiate effect to take the edge off, even if it's f*ck all compared to methadone.

Can't really say how long, but on a rought estimate between 24-48 hours your methadone should slowly kick back in over a day or two. It probably wouldn't be too worthwhile putting off your next methadone dose as when the sub leaves your body the methadone will gradually come back into action. Just depends if you want a quicker hit later or a gradual hit earlier.

Don't waste your money on heroin.

In the meantime, all the withdrawal meds will help. Valium, ibuprofen, any benzo you can get your hand on will take the edge off.You'll also probably be shaken up for a few days. A shock to your system like that reverberates for lil while.

After you've pulled through, I'll give you the medal, or the t-shirt. Whichever you prefer.

And why doesn't it warn about this on the box? Because most often the doctors warn their patients about precipitated withdrawal. Obviously your friend didn't pass on the warning. If I were you, I'd be having some words with him (just words, not fists).


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:09 am 
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I am truly sorry for you. I made the same mistake. I wanted to change to Naltrexone and accidentally took it too early on top of my other medicine that was not out of my system. I thought I was going to die. I went to the hospital and they prescribed me something that did help me calm down. I have high blood pressure and I thought I was going to have a stroke because of the stress on my body. I kept concentrating to not let it flip me out because I did not want to stress out. I figured out that I took it too soon. The diarreah was the worst! I nearly ruined the front of my husband truck seat!! I was shaking so bad that I had to rock back and forth to lessen the agony of it all. I am so sorry for you.


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