It is currently Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:14 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:29 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 7
I was prescribed 8mg sub for a mild prescription only perc problem. Been on it almost 4 months. (Probably stayed on it too long). Never took 8mg sub, took 4mg once a day for a month, then 2 mg for a month, then 1 mg for 2 weeks then .50 for 2 weeks then .25 for 2 weeks. Just took the leap from .25 sub 3 days ago. First day, lethargic, 2nd day, hard to get out of bed, 2nd night trouble sleeping, third day no energy and I am just so tired of feeling tired and out of it. I have not been sick like opiate withdrawal but I need to feel better now so I can work.

Now to my question, I have two perc 10s left from an old prescription. I am thinking about taking 1/2 one each day for the next four days so I can work and to help with the worst of the sub withdrawal. Now remember, I am 72 hours since my last .25 dose of sub so it should be mostly out of my system. What I want to know is this. Since percocet has opiates and sub has opiates will taking the perc be the same as taking the sub and screw up with taper OR are they two completely different drugs? My thinking is if I only take the perc for four days I won't get hooked on it and I will still be withdrawing from subs but will feel better. By the time I am out of percs I will be through the worst of the sub withdrawals.

More simply put, If I take 1/2 a perc will I still be in withdrawal from the sub or will it stop it? The goal is to finish the sub withdrawal but with some relief I know the perc will give and never take either again.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:17 pm 
Offline
One Month or More
One Month or More

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:08 am
Posts: 30
if you use any more opiates you are just prolonging the length of withdrawal + paws. I would not take any opiates. It will just make things harder.

maybe ask a doc for clonodine or if you are really hurtin maybe a small script for gabapentin or lyrica.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:47 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 am
Posts: 893
Location: AZ
I don't think it will help you because of perks short half life. If you got any type of relief from the perks it would only last 4 hours or so. Honestly I think it would just make the process more difficult.

You would be better off taking a teeny tiny bit of sub if you feel you need the relief. It would last longer and not tempt a relapse. Of course I am not a Dr and this is just my opinion.


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject: 4 hours of relief
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:01 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 7
Right now 4 hours of relief would be a godsend. If I take more of the sub then won't I be prolonging the withdrawal of it?
If I take 1/2 a perc will I be prolonging the withdrawal of the sub or will I just get 4 hours of relief?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 4 hours of relief
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:52 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:59 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Carson City, Nevada
izzywizzy wrote:
Right now 4 hours of relief would be a godsend. If I take more of the sub then won't I be prolonging the withdrawal of it?
If I take 1/2 a perc will I be prolonging the withdrawal of the sub or will I just get 4 hours of relief?


I highly advise you to stay clean of the Percs. It's an opiates, just like Sub. It will only set you back. In my experience, once you are off Suboxone, your body will cling to any opiate you give it and throw w/d symptoms at you like crazy once it gets a little taste. I had surgery a couple months after stopping Sub, took painkillers, and was shocked at the response from my body. Not fun.

If you can't deal with the Sub w/d, then I'd take a tiny bit of Sub, like 1/16 or 1/8. It will slowly leave your body and not give you the whiplash you will get from percocet. And even if you get 4 hours of relief, you will pay for it after the 4 hours are over.

laddertipper

_________________
First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:19 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:21 am
Posts: 6
Is it a good idea? Probably not...once you have a taste for it again it will be hard to put down. Would I do it myself? I guarantee it! I used percs to get off of Suboxone the last time. Just switched from Suboxone to percs then tapered off them and the sickness wasn't as bad at that point. I know other people who have done this successfully and had it work out great but I personally had a hard time putting it down afterwards. I did it though, putting them down that is... but I ended up going back to Suboxone a couple of months later. I just wasn't ready to get off it at that time, as much as I wanted to be. I feel your pain I'm going through withdrawal myself and I'd love to be able to use percs again but it's just not possible this time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:37 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:07 pm
Posts: 23
izzywizzy, using percs or any other full agonist opiate for withdrawal symptoms, not a good idea! Yes, both drugs are opiates, but that's where the similarity ends, percs are a quick acting full agonist, where as Sub is a long lasting partial agonist with a high binding/stacking affinity, simply put it stays with you much longer. Either way you extend your withdrawal time, but in my opinion, using a small amount of Sub, say .125mg or less, only when you can't handle the symptoms any longer, is the lesser of the two evils.

Although you tapered, you tapered very quickly, so a better option might be to go back on sub at .25mg and do a slower taper to .125mg or lower, before you jump again. When I tapered, and got below the 1mg point, I lowered my dose by .25mg, every thirty days, and stayed at the last dose for thirty days as well. When I jumped the only bad days were 3&4, and that just felt like a cold coming on, I could have worked if necessary. Everyone's different, and this is only my opinion, but I think it'd be the easiest, most controlled way out for you, especially if you have to work while going thru it.

Whatever route you take, you might try contacting your sub doc and ask him for some comfort meds, there are things he can give you to help with the symptoms.

Good luck,

Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:38 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 7
This sounds really stupid when I say it out loud. I got on subs to stop percs and now I want to use percs to stop subs. Rediculous! Well the percs are still in my safe and I am mad and aint going to take any of it anymore. This has been a collassal cluster "f$%K". The only plus in the past 2 years was I was happy for 2 whole years while on the percs! No pain and really felt good everyday. When I needed more to get the same effect I knew it was time to stop and did so before I ruined my life, family or job. I got alot accomplished while on them. I guess, in a way, I don't regret it. I knew I had to pay the piper. I misjudged the withdrawal from the subs however.

BTW don't buy subs using your insurance. I really messed up buying them with my insurance. Now I am in that big black national database and I can never get another insurance policy again, other than the one I have. My family DR warned me but I didn't listen. I Tried to make a change to my blue cross and they found the sub prescription and told me to go pound sand. Better buy sub prescriptions with cash.

In any event, I am in day four from tapering off .25 so I am going to just try to hang in there. I see many of you are in such worse shape than I am. I need to stop my whining. Got ambien for sleep and a back massager with heat that really takes my mind off the aches. I just move it to different parts of my body. The head and massage is comforting.

Thanks for the support.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:40 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:59 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Carson City, Nevada
izzywizzy wrote:
This sounds really stupid when I say it out loud. I got on subs to stop percs and now I want to use percs to stop subs. Rediculous! Well the percs are still in my safe and I am mad and aint going to take any of it anymore. This has been a collassal cluster "f$%K". The only plus in the past 2 years was I was happy for 2 whole years while on the percs! No pain and really felt good everyday. When I needed more to get the same effect I knew it was time to stop and did so before I ruined my life, family or job. I got alot accomplished while on them. I guess, in a way, I don't regret it. I knew I had to pay the piper. I misjudged the withdrawal from the subs however.

BTW don't buy subs using your insurance. I really messed up buying them with my insurance. Now I am in that big black national database and I can never get another insurance policy again, other than the one I have. My family DR warned me but I didn't listen. I Tried to make a change to my blue cross and they found the sub prescription and told me to go pound sand. Better buy sub prescriptions with cash.

In any event, I am in day four from tapering off .25 so I am going to just try to hang in there. I see many of you are in such worse shape than I am. I need to stop my whining. Got ambien for sleep and a back massager with heat that really takes my mind off the aches. I just move it to different parts of my body. The head and massage is comforting.

Thanks for the support.


WHAT!!??? You cannot get another insurance policy once you're on Subs? What if you've been off them? This is super bad news for me if it's true....I was just about to switch to a policy other than the one through my husband's work, but I had no clue the Sub would be a problem. Oh crap....if it is true.

laddertipper

_________________
First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: insurance and subs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:36 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 7
It was true for me. I should qualify my statements since I have no idea if all insurance companies use sub treatment against them in considering new policies or changing existing ones. I personally had two experiences with BC/BS about this. I had only been on subs two months and asked them to change my deductible and they came back and said because I was prescribed subs they wouldn't do it. I am healthy otherwise and never had many claims. Then someone else I knew tried to get a new policy with them and they saw in then national medical database they had been prescribed subs and turned them down. (they got a letter where BS told them the denial was based on the national database and the sub they were prescribed.) At first, I was thrilled my insurance paid for the subs since they are so expensive until I figured out I just let my insurance company know I had a substance abuse problem. I will never be able to erase this. That medical database is used for life insurance AND health insurance and maybe other things. I wish I had never used my insurance to pay for the subs or used it to go to the subs doctor. I Had no idea they would use it against me. But when you think about it insurance compannies only want people who don't have health problems.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:43 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:41 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Pennsylvania
Valium helps well..... I def wouldnt take another opiate though. if worse comes to worth and you cant get anything Nyquill can help, i know it sounds stupid but it helped me get through alot of withdrawls


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:37 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 7
After 96 hours I dont' have alot of energy but more than yesterday. I went into my grandson's room and put in the DANCE WII game. Found the PROUD MARY song and danced to it in my pajamas danced 4 times until i was about to pass out which didn't take long since I felt like passing out before I danced. PROUD MARY starts slow but the end is out of control! I have been reading about the importance of exercise but it's all so boring. Ellyptical, walking, treadmill. But WII DANCE is fun and gets you up off your butt. My brain is lazy. Perks are still in the safe and haven't even taken a peice of a sub.

Question, If I make it a month with no subs and no pain pills, if I take 1 pain pill will i start the withdrawal process all over again or will it simply affect me like 1 pain pill should by eliminating pain since all the meds are out of my system? One pain pill can't cause a week of withdrawal the next day can it?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:36 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:04 pm
Posts: 421
Location: California, San Diego
96 hrs!! WONDERFUL! Forget about those percs you don't need em. Give yourself a month and when you think you might need to take them, assess the situation at that time. Meanwhile a big HI 5.. WOW! 96 hrs... So proud of you...


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:01 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:41 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Pennsylvania
ive been in a similar position with the surgeries and pain pills, and no you wont go thru the withdrawl of the pain pill, atleast i didnt anyway not in the least. however that pain pill will be pretty strong, and may bring back old memories, so fight the urge to abuse and relapse


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: progress
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:05 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 7
Well it has been 9 days since last dose of sub. (tapered to .25 over 2 weeks then jumped). Feeling much better though still lack motivation. Never did get really sick. Just felt like hell the first 5 days with chills, sweating, anxiety, depression, exhaustion. I was only on subs 3 months after 2 years of oxy prescription for pain. I am still surprised at how long it takes to get off sub after even that short of a period of use. My dr said I would be on it a year. I decided not to take his advice. I suppose I should have only used subs a couple weeks to help with the oxy withdrawal then stopped. What's done is done though. Once I get my movtivation back I will be okay. What helped the most was not baths or other meds, it was simply constanting reminding myself that each day does turn to night and the next day is better than the last. Today is Tuesday and last Tuesday is history and I will NEVER make this mistake again.

I feel SO badly for all the suffering people out there as you felt for me with your encouraging words a week ago. Thank you for your words of comfort. I still had those 2 perks in my safe, just in case, and just threw them in the lake. The bad news is a bird thought it was bread and just scooped one up. Oops. Have a nice day bird....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:19 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 am
Posts: 893
Location: AZ
Great to here you are feeling better! You did awsome! I am impressed that you had the perks the entire time and never took any. Continue the strength you have shown and you will be just fine.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Perks
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:28 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 7
Thanks for the support. If I had thought it would not have setback my withdrawal period I would have taken the perk just to give myself a reprieve for a few hours but everyone says something different about the effects of just one opiate even after the subs are out of your system. I still don't quite understand how it works.

Does this mean that once you have gone through opiate withdrawals if you ever take even 1 pill again you will be thrown into full blown withdrawals again? I may have to have surgery next year on my jaw and wouldnt normally think twice about taking pain pills for a couple days but not if it would cause me to have to go through withdrawals again.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Perks
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:01 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:08 am
Posts: 1503
izzywizzy wrote:
Thanks for the support. If I had thought it would not have setback my withdrawal period I would have taken the perk just to give myself a reprieve for a few hours but everyone says something different about the effects of just one opiate even after the subs are out of your system. I still don't quite understand how it works.

Does this mean that once you have gone through opiate withdrawals if you ever take even 1 pill again you will be thrown into full blown withdrawals again? I may have to have surgery next year on my jaw and wouldnt normally think twice about taking pain pills for a couple days but not if it would cause me to have to go through withdrawals again.


Awesomest thread. Seeing izzy supported out of using percs again. Go izzy and suboxforum.

It was the right thing to do. I always found that if I used any strong opioid for 'relief' of my withdrawals, I'd pretty much end up starting the withdrawal process all over again.

If you ever take another pill you won't be thrown into full blown withdrawal straight away. It always depended on how long I'd been clean, and what I was coming off. By next year, I doubt you'll feel much more withdrawal than you would otherwise. Just be wary that now you've been dependent on opioids, there's a fair relapse risk if you ever take opioids again. Some ex-dependent people refuse narcotics in hospital completely because of it, despite all the pain. Crazy, but they stay clean.

Why keep percs in your safe for a rainy day?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:34 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
Hey Izzy,

I think I saw that bird who scooped up your Perc, he was sitting on our bird feeder this morning, smoking a cigarette....boy, did he look stoned!! LOL

As far as taking an opiate once you've been clean for a while and then having to go through wd again, it really depends on how much you take and for how long. I've slipped up several times since getting off of Suboxone. The slip that caused me the most wd was a 9 day slip. I quit the Vicoden after 9 days and I remember feeling pretty crappy for 3 or 4 days, then just BLAH for another week or so.

This might sound a little silly, but if you're gonna use pain pills again, be careful.....start with a low dose. We addicts tend to think we're superman or something and go right back to the doses we used to take. Don't do it, it'll more than likely kill you.

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:08 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:04 pm
Posts: 421
Location: California, San Diego
:lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group