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 Post subject: Medical Marijuana
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:29 am 
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I was just wondering what everyone's take was on medical marijuana with suboxone cause I've heard a lot of stories how people use marijuana to help with the pain side that suboxone doesn't really help with. Any opinions?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:43 am 
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Come on no one has a opinion about medical marijuana? I don't use it myself just want to hear peopled opinions?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:53 pm 
I guess if you're asking what I think of "medical marijuana" you're referring to marijuana that is being legitimately prescribed by a physician who is able to do so and when there is a true medical indication for it. If that's the case, I suppose it's fine. I've heard of cases in which it is used for severe nausea as in chemotherapy patients or for nausea or pain in terminally ill patients. In those particular situations, I'd say it's great. I don't think anyone with those types of conditions should have to suffer more than they already are when there is something available to help them.
I haven't heard of it being used legally for an addict who is detoxing from a substance of abuse or from Suboxone though. I could be wrong and if so, someone please feel free to let me know. As far as someone obtaining it and using it illegally to comfort or help them during detox - Sorry, can't say that that's okay or cool. In my opinion, if you're in recovery, that includes abstaining from any and all substances that are not prescribed for you and that are illegal.
Just my opinion. I'm sure there are plenty who disagree. Feel free to chime in with your thoughts.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:51 am 
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I think marijuana should be legal, period. I think anyone over the age of 18 who wants to smoke it should be able to. I think people should be allowed to grow it for personal use, I think the government should tax the crap out of it to fund drug treatment and whatever else, I think we should be able to go to cafes and smoke hash just like people do in Amsterdam.

I bet you that pot is good for a lot of ailments. At the very least, it makes people feel better, and that's got to be worth something. I would rather see people smoke weed than shoot heroin. Hell, I'd rather see them smoke pot than drink alcohol.

Now I know that there are some people who are addicts and if they're addicted to opiates then they have to stay abstinent form all drugs or they will go off the deep end and end up back on opiates. But not everyone is like that. Personally, I have never smoked a joint and then thought to myself: Hey, I should go try to score some OC or something! In fact, one of the reasons that I started doing pills was because I couldn't smoke weed anymore - at some point in my mid 20's it stopped agreeing with me so I quit smoking it. I'd bet that if I'd never had to stop smoking pot I probably wouldn't have gotten into trouble with the pills.

So there you have my opinion on the herb. I wish I still liked it, but I don't, so I don't really partake anymore. I do think that when you're new in your recovey, staying off all the mind-altering drugs for a while is a good idea. Makes it easier to evaluate where you're at. And people need to know themselves because even though I don't think weed is a dangerous drug, it can be abused - like when people use it as their only life-coping skill. So, yeah, moderation man.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:23 pm 
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I agree... pot should be legal. There is no doubt in my mind that there would be many less addicts and alcoholics if pot was legal. People are always going to want easy and fast avenues to euphoria and this is a good one with minimal side effects. The biggest problem is how to regulate and limit the potency when inhaled. If someone could invent a way to mfg and package pot in a half pint bottle so it could be drank in shots like Vodka... then it would have a chance. It would then be easily taxed and more socially acceptable. I haven't smoke pot for years simply because of drug screens. but my life was opiate free when i did use it. And when I decided to quit... no WD's.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:57 pm 
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I agree with making it legal. I live in colorado where it has been de-criminalized, meaning that they cannot write tickets or make an arrest if the person is carring less then an ounce. for those who smoke. "that is more then enough". the only time when you get in trouble is when you are attempting to sell. Which brings me to another point. It is legal to buy the stuff from a Dispensary as long as you have license perscribed bye a doctor. A dispensary is much like the coffee shops in amsterdam (without the smoking). They have a wide verity of buds, baked goods and hash oils. Doctors can perscribe these license for many many different things, (pain controll) is one of them. I belive that you could probably find a doctor that will perscribe this for withdrawl pain since pot has not withdrawls what so ever!! This system is working very well for colorado. It has commercialized a multi-billion doller underground buisness. This has put criminal dealers out of work and now the state collects tax revenue. People are going to smoke this stuff no matter what, why not tax it, after all there are far far more harmful perscription drugs out there.

As for smoking with suboxone... I think if your sub doctor is evolved and she thinks that it is ok then go for it. Smoking illegaly on the other hand i would say no.(we are trying to stop these "self medicating behaviors"). I think that pot not only helps with pain but it also helps with withdrawl pain. It keeps my mind of "taking another pill", and helps me relax. The only thing that concerns me is that you have to sumet a drug test everyonce in a wile to stay on the suboxone. I bet that pot in the system will get you "kicked out". not sure this is just my openion. DON'T SELF MEDICATE" as your doctor first :)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:49 am 
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I'm in a pharmacy technician program (talk about irony), and even our instructor, a pharmacist of many years, told the whole class he'd like to see it legalizedl! I agree, but also agree with the caveat that it's not a great idea to indulge in other substances during recovery.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:45 pm 
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[quote="Diary of a Quitter"]I think marijuana should be legal, period. I think anyone over the age of 18 who wants to smoke it should be able to. I think people should be allowed to grow it for personal use, I think the government should tax the crap out of it to fund drug treatment and whatever else, I think we should be able to go to cafes and smoke hash just like people do in Amsterdam.

I agree with all of it but taxing it wont help.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:04 pm 
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I am at the point in my recovery that I think I need to quit smoking pot because It is not prescribed to me. I need to stop the self medicating behavior that got me here in the first place. I am 32 and have been a regular pot smoker since I was 13, this kid would bring it to school. It does help me relax, helps with my appetite, it really just makes me feel better all around. I guess my main concerns are staying off the opiates and not getting kicked out of the program. The nurse said he probably wouldn't kick me out over that, but over time it might be an issue and that I should try slowing down. I think he would have an issue with it as time goes on. I think pot only becomes an issue when you smoke constantly to deal with life. You have to use moderation.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:45 pm 
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I agree with you 100% rmills. When I started sub I had to stop smoking pot, too. See, I was one of those people who smoked it constantly - yes, to deal with life. It was scary to give it all up at once. I'm actually surprised at how well I'm doing without it. You're the only one who knows whether it's a problem. Smoking it alone doesn't necessarily make it a problem - it's how much and the reasons why, as you said.

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 Post subject: medical mj
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:41 pm 
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I am a medical marijuana smoker. I am also taking 6mgs of subutex a day, tapered down from 16 mgs a day 9 months ago. Yep, I'm taking my time to make sure this is the LAST time I go through this hell, although this is my first time on subutex.

Every day when I get home from work I smoke a bowl, a joint, or turn on the vaporizer. I find that it helps greatly with tapering anxiety and other problems, pains, and troubles associated with mood or body aches. Many people say that weed is a pain killer. As much as I love marijuana, I don't find it to be a pain killer. I just think it helps via an all around calming feeling. People should also realize that before smoking, there are 3 main strains of weed: Indica and Sativa, and then the OG hybrid, which is a mix of the 2. If you are in a good place and feeling great and enjoy a little extra energy, I suggest Sativa. If you are looking for pain/ mood/ body/ sleep relief, I urge you to please stick with heavy Indica breeds. Many people don't realize there is a difference and end up smoking the wrong one and end up with an opposite desirable effect.

My sub doc is completely against me smoking pot. He tries to steer me away from it, saying it "will confuse" me. He also thinks it could possibly substitute and mask my opiate addiction problem. I disagree. I have never really smoked that much before this last round of me vs. opiates. I find it very helpful with tapering. Everyone is different, but I would suggest it (Indica only) if you are uneasy with tapering, are prone to panic attacks or anxiety, or just want a good night's sleep. Good luck to everyone struggling.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:42 pm 
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I agree with making pot legal. I think our generation - from boomers to genX, see it just as alcohol if not even less harmful. I'm 45, and during my life, you either smoked it or you didn't - it wasn't and isn't a big deal either way, and especially hemp - in this time of looking for renewable resources, i think it's absolutely foolish to bunch a plant with so many uses and can't get you high in with marijuana - it's just dumb.

I don't smoke it anymore as it just makes my anxiety worse, and these crazy hybrids are so strong that one hit can bring on a panic attack. I also have never seen it as a pain reliever, but for those that do, I say more power to you.

I just think it's time we grow up and take the criminals out of it, make it and hemp legal, and utilize both for their many uses and taxable income.

J

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:17 pm 
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Ok this is a subject that i debate back and fourth in my head every day. I was a ture botique smoker the best of the best went to amsterdam once a year hit cali up for a month hear or their to live with my buddys who had their cards an loved life for a very long time smokeing pot. It was my life the culture the glass community the whole nine yards. Then i got addicted to oxy contin for a very bad knee injury add that with weed it just became my life period no friends no gurls just drs and grow rooms! It got to the point were you never saw me sober an i was loseing everything around me an mostly my gurl and my family which was the point 4 years later at 160 mgs a day that i make my mind up i need help. So i talk to a good friend who just got on suboxone i mean a good friend. he sat down with me step by step on the suboxone dr locater site an i got on a waiting list. next thing i know i im on suboxone but still on weed at this point as well. At first my dr didnt do drug test. but it got to the point were they had to start them cause to many issues with kids coming in high an they had to know on what. So i get omni detox which got rid of the weed an kept the sub which was perfect but takeing this stuff did a toal on my body. anyways my dr used me as a ex. on how i quit weed for this program an so on after she told me that i felt so bad knowing i was cheating my program. and thats when i realized its time to take my recovery serious. oh yea im on sub for pain issues as well which is one of the main reasons i got so deep into the culture of weed. so i just vacum sealed the statsh cut off all connections an quit period. to this day i still have a very very large amount of weed in my safe but i dont even think about it cause IM MY EYES YOU CAN TRUELY NOT RECOVER FROM DRUGS UNLESS YOU ARE 100% DRUG FREE BESIDES THE SUB. an over time i realized how much better life was with out weed an i love it to this day i want to smoke but i just say no to myself for now.

but now let me state i live in newyork state so its not leagla which was also a huge factor on why i quit. If i lived in a green state i could get perscribed weed 100% for my injury an im not gonna lie 16mgs of sub doesnt take away all my pain so it would be a very hard choice to make but let me say unless you truely need to weed and when i say truely you have a serious injury that gets in the way of your everyday life then im for medical bud but over 80% of the people in cali do not come close to needing a script an thats why its hard for other states to leagalize it cause its to hard to regulate!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:46 pm 
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Been talking about this issue on another web sight look there is a pill that has been legal to perscrip for years that has THC in it can't think of the name off the top of my head its legal in all staes ask your doc about it.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:00 pm 
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rsaylor8326 wrote:
Been talking about this issue on another web sight look there is a pill that has been legal to perscrip for years that has THC in it can't think of the name off the top of my head its legal in all staes ask your doc about it.



Its called Marinol! ive taken it many times b4 it doesnt get you high what so ever. its main use is to help really sick people eat. cause its great for stomach aces an makes you hungry some what.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:34 pm 
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Most people agree that Marinol does not work as well as marijuana itself - except for helping with nausea.

Let's be honest, the MM thing is an easy scam, probably easier than the pill mills here in Florida. I know of one person who uses it for his HIV, and a bunch who just wanted to be able to buy pot legally. It's not hard to get a scrip for it - you got the cash, you got a scrip. Then it's down to the dispensary for a whole bunch of goodies, whether you want to eat it or smoke it.

Some people are "addicted" to pot. Hell, my ex was addicted to shopping - seriously - she would buy new clothes instead of washing the ones she had. Guess who got stuck with that bill? But, my point is, people can be addicted to anything - sex, salt, money (or spending), along with booze and drugs. I was addicted to freebase (not crack, but good old early 80's freebasing) for one night. I could not, for the life of me, turn that pipe down when it made it's way around the table - hopeless. sprinkle a little H on that rock as it was glowing and Hooo Boy, we were in heaven!

For one night.

Me at least. The others went on to ruin. I feel bad about that because the H was my idea..(Doh!) However, I never freebased again. It was just too powerful. It's not like I could do a hit and get on with my day. No siree. That stuff had me glued to the chair, waiting for the pipe to come back around. I stopped when it ran out that night, and never touched it again. As funny as it sounds, I didn't like being under that thumb. With opiates (Mid-level ones like Oxy or even typical H - I'm not talking about those Fent analogues or the really, super crazy stuff - Check out Entonitazene)
I could function. as a matter of irony, my downward spiral didn't start until I kicked. The simple fact is - as much as this will rub a lot of people the wrong way - my life was much better when I was addicted - or dependent, as I prefer (Yeah, whatever). Really, if I had a choice and could get it legally, I'd much rather be back on Oxy or even H. I was just highly functioning, and I make no excuses or apologies. I felt better and was much more successful in pretty much all areas of my life, but to each their own.

So, to say one must be 100% drug free (Except for the Bupe) is bunk. Guess what? You're not drug free - you're on a very powerful opiate. Partial agonist maybe, but made from the same thebaine from the same poppy your other opiates came from. It's just legal, so that makes it legit, and therefore ok. Right?

I understand that that's very hard to hear for some people. Some may not like it one bit. But to those - especially those like myself - that have been on Bupe for a couple years, just try to stop. It may take about 5 days for the withdrawals to hit, but it's no fun. Downright miserable really.

So, to lump all together as one is not logical, nor is it fair. As I said earlier, I don't care for weed anymore, but don't tell me I'm just like you or anyone else and must refrain from all intoxicants. We are all different and each of us must be treated individually, not under some all encompassing addiction umbrella.

So, let the attacks begin - I can take it. But, when someone makes the statement (In all caps, for the love of Pete...) that
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IM MY EYES YOU CAN TRUELY NOT RECOVER FROM DRUGS UNLESS YOU ARE 100% DRUG FREE BESIDES THE SUB

I have to take exception.

Despite how the written word may appear, I'm not trying to be mean, and my intentions are not to incite or "Flame/Debate", but I've been playing this game for a long, long time, and I call it like I see it. Bupe may be legal, but make no mistake - you are far from being drug free.

J

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:23 pm 
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Thats it Marino or what ever thanks I take it like in Cali medical refer is like Subs here is that how it is

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:46 pm 
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So, J Ramone, you're saying regardless of our lifestyle, we're still "on drugs" just because we happen to be on Suboxone? I've given the definition of addiction on this forum before, but I guess we can go over some of it again.
Addiction is a neurobiological disease that has genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors. It is characterized by one or more of the following behaviors: * Poor control over drug use; * Compulsive drug use; * Continued use of a drug despite physical, mental and/or social harm; *A craving for the drug.

Using that definition, I am not addicted to suboxone. I consider myself (and I know others here do as well) to be in opiate addiction remission. No one is arguing that suboxone is an opiate, albeit a partial agonist. It allows us to live our lives in a healthy manner. That's VERY, VERY different from the way we were living our lives when we were taking pain pills/full agonist opiates. It's very much NOT the same thing.

Not everyone on this forum goes the full abstinence route, so I'm not sure what you're saying there. Some people do, however, others here happen to drink or smoke pot occasionally. But we're not ruining our lives popping pain pills. We take suboxone and just forget about it. There's no craving for sub, no poor control over our sub use, no compulsive use of sub, and no harm coming from it.

Need I say more?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:36 pm 
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Hat i couldnt of said it any better myself.

ive been to NA i know what people think about suboxone and not being drug free while on it. an everybody in allowd to think and say what they want it doesnt bother me.

all i know is in my own eyes im drug free an thats all that matters to me. all i got to say is take 200 mgs of oxy a day for 4 years straight not missing one day. then get on sub for 4 years an tell you me you are not drug free. I chased the dragon for a long time an sub took away that chaseing an thats all i got to say on that matter.


but bro you should really think about what you are posting in a fourm like this. cause that post can hurt alot of people who are early in their recovery so please think b4 you post stuff like that cause we are drug free compared to what we were on b4 sub!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:37 am 
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That's all fine. I have no intentions of hurting anyone, but I'm not gonna blow smoke up their tailpipe either. Like I said, I've been playing this game a long, long time, and I've seen and heard it all. I have no problem with people being cheerleaders, and I think that's a very important role that I respect very much. I see my role as the person who says the things nobody else wants to say. I'm very much involved in Harm Reduction on other sites, and have been for a long time. I understand we're talking about recovery here, but to walk on eggshells and not let people know what could lie ahead would be a major disservice in my opinion.

I know it was a rather long post, but my specific objection was about the comment I quoted. The fact is, while you may be better off than you were before, you are not "Drug Free" while on Suboxone. It's absolutely silly to believe that. You are on your way to becoming drug free, or you have settled in for a long run of maintenance, but as long as you are on bupe, you are not drug free. Again, Just try to stop after a while and see what happens - You may not be addicted to suboxone, but you if you use it for an extended length of time, you will become dependent on it, and getting off it can be just as, or even more difficult as any other opiate. That is the truth, whether you want to hear it or not.

The main purpose of suboxone, especially in a Inpatient Program, is to use it as a tool to ween people off full agonists such as H or Oxy. This typically happens over 4-8 weeks, and then they're off. It takes a lot of willpower and strength from there, and many, many people do it successfully.

Again, bupe is a very powerful drug, medicine, substitute, tool, whatever you want to call it. But to tell yourself that you are drug free while using bupe for extended periods of time is not realistic. Is a chronic pain patient who uses Oxycontin to help control their pain drug free? Is the person who chooses a methadone clinic drug free? Ask yourself that.

As I said, my main objection was to the statement that you are not drug free until you take nothing but bupe. That's nonsense. I know of many people who have used MJ or even lesser opites such as Darvocet or Tramadol to help alleviate their withdrawal symptoms from massive opiate addictions, along with an arsenal of other meds, including Imodium, Clonidine, DXM, and a lot of sugar, but it worked, and you can't argue with results. It is not a "One size fits all" situation, and the statement that I quoted will do much more damage than a simple reality check, trust me.

I can see that my comments and approach to addiction and/or dependence aggravate people, and that is not my intention at all. I wish everyone happiness, no matter what route they find is best for their life. I will leave you all as to not cause any more irritation or aggravation, but please just remember: Looking in the mirror and being honest with yourself is one of the hardest, but bravest things you will ever do in your life.

Best of luck to everyone. Never stop trying.

J

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